Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[dgfred]

Wrong. They already have been.

How have they 'already' been excluded, the knife and bra-clasp? The court will make the decision.

 

[mdana]

This one truly made me chuckle of Nick Pisa and I apologize if this article has already been posted

"The experts also stressed that "international standards of searching for and gathering evidence were not followed with regard to the knife and the bra clasp".

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...After_DNA_Evidence_May_Have_Been_Contaminated

This is being mocked at PMF. They claim there are no such thing as international standards, but what is ISO (International Standards Organization) then? The FBI is ISO accredited for DNA forensics testing (if I am reading their webpage correctly). I am almost tempted to join and enter the scrum, but I have refrained so far.

 

[Monzoo]

Any thoughts on what this means?

""Si tratta. pertanto, di un profilo genetico derivante da mistura di sostanze biologiche non meglio identificate (si ricorda che non è stata eseguita alcuna indagine mirata alFevidenziazione delle ipotizzate cellule di sfaldamento quindi l’affermazione è priva di fondamento scientifico) la cui componente maggiore è rappresentata da DNA della vittima e la componente minore è rappresentata da DNA proveniente da più individui (cfr. STRs autosomici) di sesso maschile (cfr. cromosoma Y). un aplotipo Y dei quali corrisponde all’aplotipo Y di Raffaele Sollecito."

Does it say that Raffaele's DNA was on the bra clasp?

Komponisto at JREF has helpfully provided a translation:

"Si tratta, pertanto, di un profilo genetico derivante da mistura di sostanze
biologiche non meglio identificate (si ricorda che non è stata eseguita alcuna indagine mirata alFevidenziazione delle ipotizzate cellule di sfaldamento quindi l’affermazione è priva di fondamento scientifico) la cui componente maggiore è rappresentata da DNA della vittima e la componente minore è rappresentata da DNA proveniente da più individui (cfr. STRs autosomici) di sesso maschile (cfr. cromosoma Y). un aplotipo Y dei quali corrisponde all’aplotipo Y di Raffaele Sollecito."

"The genetic profile thus derives from a mixture of unidentified biological substances (it will be recalled that no test was performed with a view toward revealing the presence of flaking cells, and so the claim is without scientific basis), whose larger component is represented by the DNA of the victim and whose smaller component is represented by DNA from several individuals (cf. autosomic STRs) of male sex (cf. Y chromosome), of which one of the Y aplotypes corresponds to the Y aplotype of Raffaele Sollecito"

Link Here

 

[Allusonz]

This is being mocked at PMF. They claim there are no such thing as international standards, but what is ISO (International Standards Organization) then? The FBI is ISO accredited for DNA forensics testing (if I am reading their webpage correctly). I am almost tempted to join and enter the scrum, but I have refrained so far.

Your joking right? They are trying to compare ISO standards which have nothing to do with DNA standards?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[SMK]

Wrong. They already have been.

Right, there actually seems to be some denial here. It reminds me of when Obama won, and some were speculating that he somehow would be kicked out very early due to his being born in Kenya. Sometimes its best to just face facts. I do not see how this news can be interpreted any other way than that those who believed the DNA was flawed were right all along. Even I am amazed that the situation stands where Fisher indicated.

 

[mdana]

Your joking right? They are trying to compare ISO standards which have nothing to do with DNA standards?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

No, and maybe I am getting this wrong (because some of the posters are Italian and their English maybe causing confusion), they are stating there are no such thing as international standards in regards to DNA forensics.

 

[Monzoo]

How have they 'already' been excluded, the knife and bra-clasp? The court will make the decision.

You are absolutely right, Fred. They have not yet been excluded as evidence. I expect that July 25, when the report of the independent experts is discussed in open court, will be a very interesting day.

I have not had time to look at more than the conclusions of the report, but what I have seen does not look good at all for the prosecution. It seems that most of the news media agrees -- but, as you say, we will see in another month.

 

[Allusonz]

No, and maybe I am getting this wrong (because some of the posters are Italian and their English maybe causing confusion), they are stating there are no such thing as international standards in regards to DNA forensics.

I am sure you have heard of ISO certifications like 9001, 9002 etc. Here is the website. It applies to manufacturing, car companies, etc. I guess this means Ford can now do DNA testing

http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue.htm

 

[SMK]

Wrong. They already have been.

Right. There actually seems to be some kind of denial going on here, as when Obama was elected and certain persons felt it must surely be a mistake that would be rectified very soon.

Sometimes it is more expedient to simply face facts.

I do not see how else this news can be interpreted. Why did the Knox and Sollecito attorneys phone them in jail with the wonderful news? This time, PMF cannot chalk it up to Candace Dempsey/Bruce Fisher "stupidity".

The fact of the matter is, this report indicates that those who believed all along that the dna was flawed in the testing and should be discarded on both the knife and the clasp were correct. Bruce Fisher predicted this a year ago. Who can say otherwise than the situation now stands where he indicated?

 

[miley]

You recall my posts???:blushing::blushing: (I own the Musing in Obama's America blog)...

Yes I do! The title, specifically drew my attention but I was trying to figure out what led me there ... I'm almost certain it had to do with that daric richie - I had never heard of him and didn't understand all the buzz

 

[SMK]

Yes I do! The title, specifically drew my attention but I was trying to figure out what led me there ... I'm almost certain it had to do with that daric richie - I had never heard of him and didn't understand all the buzz

Ah, yes, these were the later ones, from this spring, about Perugia Murder File, Doug Bremmer, and Daric Richie!:floorlaugh:

 

[Allusonz]

Right, there actually seems to be some denial here. It reminds me of when Obama won, and some were speculating that he somehow would be kicked out very early due to his being born in Kenya. Sometimes its best to just face facts. I do not see how this news can be interpreted any other way than that those who believed the DNA was flawed were right all along. Even I am amazed that the situation stands where Fisher indicated.

Yup. There simply comes a point in time when you have this many DNA experts stating there are issues, then appointing an independent panel to make a determination and that agrees with what all the other experts have been saying nothing will change some minds

 

[SMK]

Yup. There simply comes a point in time when you have this many DNA experts stating there are issues, then appointing an independent panel to make a determination and that agrees with what all the other experts have been saying nothing will change some minds

OK, case in point: now how would YOU respond to this? Here is a snippet from someone on Perugia Murder File: Please tell me before I lose my mind! starting to scream in New Jersey: kay: Please help Allusonz!!

We've seen and heard all of this before. The fact that these are court-appointed experts doesn't really factor into it. We have the same evidence and the same results.

I don't know how that equates "devastating" or "scathing" evisceration of the DNA forensics. It's just more of the same and unlikely to bear heavily upon the decisions made after 25 JUL 2011.

Is there really anything that has changed in terms of the evidence?

:banghead: Denial, much????? OR is there something I myself am not grasping??? someone please clarify!!

 

[miley]

You forget that the prosecution did not disclose the raw data. That is were the experts got the conclusions with respect to the bra clasp therefore this is simply very wishful thinking

chris halkides wrote this a few weeks ago in reference to the raw data request but I'm applying it here:
"This ends the debate about whether or not the forensic files were ever released to the defense during the trial of the first instance."
read more View-from-Wilmington

 

[mdana]

I am sure you have heard of ISO certifications like 9001, 9002 etc. Here is the website. It applies to manufacturing, car companies, etc. I guess this means Ford can now do DNA testing

http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue.htm

Standards for Forensic DNA Testing Laboratories

Introduction
This document consists of definitions and standards. The standards are quality assurance measures that place specific requirements on the laboratory. Equivalent measures not outlined in this document may also meet the standard if determined sufficient through an accreditation process.

References:

American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors-Laboratory Accreditation Board (ASCLD-LAB), ASCLD-LAB Accreditation Manual, January 1994, and January, 1997. International Standards Organization (ISO)/International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC), ISO/IEC Guide 25-1990, (1990) American National Standards Institute, New York, NY. Technical Working Group on DNA Analysis Methods, "Guidelines for a Quality Assurance Program for DNA Analysis," Crime Laboratory Digest, April 1995, Volume 22, Number 2, pp. 21-43. 42 Code of Federal Regulations, Chapter IV (10-1-95 Edition), Health Care Financing Administration, Health and Human Services.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/codis/stds_testlabs

I was referring to this, sorry if I confused you.

 

[Allusonz]

OK, case in point: now how would YOU respond to this? Here is a snippet from someone on Perugia Murder File: Please tell me before I lose my mind! starting to scream in New Jersey: kay: Please help Allusonz!!

Remember I am taking an educated guess here

I have not seen that raw data but for the bra clasp what I suspect has happened is a Y chromozone (which is male) was incorrectly reported to be RS's. There are certain values which a percentage of males would have in common but that does not mean it is an exact match this is where the subjectivity comes in. I am guessing on this as to state that it was erroneous is pretty strong language

As for the knife what it appears I am seeing is they are saying that there is no DNA of MK on the blade which would make sense as it tested negative for blood

 

[Monzoo]

OK, case in point: now how would YOU respond to this? Here is a snippet from someone on Perugia Murder File: Please tell me before I lose my mind! starting to scream in New Jersey: kay: Please help Allusonz!!

:banghead: Denial, much????? OR is there something I myself am not grasping??? someone please clarify!!

Seems like denial to me. Probably not worth responding -- you won't change his or her mind no matter what.

 

[SMK]

Remember I am taking an educated guess here

I have not seen that raw data but for the bra clasp what I suspect has happened is a Y chromozone (which is male) was incorrectly reported to be RS's. There are certain values which a percentage of males would have in common but that does not mean it is an exact match this is where the subjectivity comes in. I am guessing on this as to state that it was erroneous is pretty strong language

As for the knife what it appears I am seeing is they are saying that there is no DNA of MK on the blade which would make sense as it tested negative for blood

Yes, I think you pretty much have it set out there, but my question is, how can others - such as the above quoted from PMF - say so confidently that nothing at all has changed when it appears everything has changed???

 

[Monzoo]

Remember I am taking an educated guess here

I have not seen that raw data but for the bra clasp what I suspect has happened is a Y chromozone (which is male) was incorrectly reported to be RS's. There are certain values which a percentage of males would have in common but that does not mean it is an exact match this is where the subjectivity comes in. I am guessing on this as to state that it was erroneous is pretty strong language

As for the knife what it appears I am seeing is they are saying that there is no DNA of MK on the blade which would make sense as it tested negative for blood

If you read the quote Otto pulled from the middle of the report (I posted the English traanslation earlier), there appears to be DNA from more than one male. One fraction of one of these profiles is merely compatible with RS.

 

[SMK]

As for the person who said, "This is old news; we have the same evidence and the same results", they are shutting their eyes to the radically different interpretation:

Dalla Vedova said the report's conclusion on the knife was that it was impossible to "relate the DNA said to be Meredith's to her with certainty" and that there is the possibility of contamination with knife too.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-extremely-happy-dna-ruling-murder-appeal/story?id=13955868&page=2