Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[Allusonz]

BBM
If an author is using their "feelings" to decide whether something is fact or opinion, then we can safely assume the information may or may not be accurate.

Again. We must as individuals take the information available to us and make our individual determinations as to the weight of the information. I think most here would agree with that

 

[otto]

I would expect that her lawyers probably have a timeline given to them by AK but that her statements would be what they would base the actual hours on. When I did indeed add it up I could not get to the 54 hours unless I included a few hours of waiting at the police station.

The bottom line is this. She spent more time being questioned by PLE that most work in a week over a 4 day span

ETA I though am not privy to the actual statements given as I have not personally spoken with her and I don't believe anyone here has either

She spent plenty of time hanging around the police station not being questioned as well. For example, she went to the police station after the murder and was not questioned until late in the evening or after midnight. All those hours are included in the 'I was physically and psychologically tortured for 54 hours' claim.

 

[otto]

What are you talking about? she said most of us are of high enough intellect.

What does "high enough intellect" mean? We're all geniuses except when we resort to insults because we're losing an argument? We're all intellectuals except when we talk about other's as though they're not reading here? We're all brilliant except when we assume the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.

 

[sherlockh]

In order for this dynamic to occur you must be able to place the 3 together. Even RG sticks to a timeline IIRC of 9:20 - 9:30 for her being killed.

When RS friend stopped by she stated in her testimony that AK acted normal this was at 8:40. We know the court in the first trial recognizes computer activity till 9:10. There are significant language barriers. The list for this time period is long a varied and simply does not support the dynamic you are attempting. As well even Dr. Lalli's estimate of TOD along with the other experts would not take it out of this 9:00 - 9:30 range without slippage into the duodenum.

Of course RG sticks to an early timeline. How is he going to explain sitting on the toilet for 2 hours? Dr. Lalli puts TOD around 23:00 and the report makes it pretty clear it is not exact science. I know TOD is mentioned in RS's appeal but I haven't seen it discussed in court yet. I think 2 hours is more then enough time to get messed up and do something stupid.

 

[Allusonz]

She spend plenty of time hanging around the police station not being questioned as well. For example, she went to the police station after the murder and was not questioned until late in the evening or after midnight. All those hours are included in the 'I was phycially and psychologically tortured for 54 hours' claim.

The actual time frame I saw did not include her "hanging around" time. I tried to come up with the exact same numbers but I was out by a couple and I did not include the "hanging around" time. Remeber this was over a 4 day time span and I have often disagreed with the fact that it was 54 hours. I conversely have no reason to believe that her lawyers are lying though

 

[SMK]

What does "high enough intellect" mean? We're all geniuses except when we resort to insults because we're losing an argument? We're all intellectuals except when we talk about other's as though they're not reading here? We're all brilliant except when we assume the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.

:waitasec: Surely you understand that the average college-educated person who studied with honors, or someone who has undergone graduate studies , would be drawn to Burleigh. If there are some questionable or dubious statements from her, it will not be swallowed wholesale.

 

[Allusonz]

Of course RG sticks to an early timeline. How is he going to explain sitting on the toilet for 2 hours? Dr. Lalli puts TOD around 23:00 and the report makes it pretty clear it is not exact science. I know TOD is mentioned in RS's appeal but I haven't seen it discussed in court yet. I think 2 hours is more then enough time to get messed up and do something stupid.

Sorry he does not as per his testimony. All of the experts stated 2 - 3 hours from time of the first mouthful with one stating to 4 hours with slippage into the duodenum

ETA RG's time frame actually helps to confirm what has been said by the experts and it has not changed

 

[SMK]

Of course RG sticks to an early timeline. How is he going to explain sitting on the toilet for 2 hours? Dr. Lalli puts TOD around 23:00 and the report makes it pretty clear it is not exact science. I know TOD is mentioned in RS's appeal but I haven't seen it discussed in court yet. I think 2 hours is more then enough time to get messed up and do something stupid.

From all I have read, I believe TOD to be close to 9:30. Sollecito's computer showed activity at 9:20. Not enough time. I hope this is considered by Hellman, as he goes over the appeal documentation.

 

[wasnt_me]

but back to her locked door -- how would FR know whether or not Mk locked her door, was she constantly in and out of Meredith's room ? ..
we know MK's boyfriend slept over.. MK probably did lock her door for a shower.. especially if G. was in her bed..

Amanda was misunderstood.. plain n' simple

It's a good point. RF says in her statements that it was more like she and LM were together, and then AK and MK were together. The two pairs lived different lifestyles because the older ones had jobs and worked all day. RF said she might see the two in the morning or in the evenings. It didn't sound consistent. So it's possible that RF had tried the door a couple times in the course of a daily routine to see if MK was home and it was open, giving RF the impression that MK didn't lock her door. It's possible that AK SAW MK lock her door to go shower or if her BF was in there. It's possible, AK tried the door in the same manner RF would and found it locked. It possible that MK was locking her door at the onset, but then starting to trust the roommates, she started not locking it and AK just didn't notice that the pattern had changed. It's possible that AK and RF, having spent different kinds of times with MK both got the different impressions they got about the door.

 

[otto]

:waitasec: Surely you understand that the average college-educated person who studied with honors, or someone who has undergone graduate studies , would be drawn to Burleigh. If there are some questionable or dubious statements from her, it will not be swallowed wholesale.

The average person with a masters or phd would not be drawn to Burleigh's true crime novel unless they were in to true crime as a side interest.

 

[sherlockh]

Sorry he does not as per his testimony. All of the experts stated 2 - 3 hours from time of the first mouthful with one stating to 4 hours with slippage into the duodenum

ETA RG's time frame actually helps to confirm what has been said by the experts and it has not changed

Quote from Judges Report referring to Lalli's Report

The application of criteria usually used in determining the time of death (temperature decrease, taking the Henssge nomogram into account; rigor mortis; hypostatic marks) led Dr. Lalli to conclude that ‚death may have occurred between 21 hours 30 minutes, and 30 hours and 30 minutes, before the first measurement, and thus between approximately 8 pm on November 1, 2007 and [176] 4 am on November 2, 2007. The intermediate value also indicated by the mathematical reconstruction (26 hours prior to the first measurement) puts the time of death at approximately 11pm on November 1, 2007 (Lalli report, page 61).

 

[wasnt_me]

I have to go out of town for a couple of days on Monday. So I probably won't try it until I get back.

I'm very reluctant. I LOVE books. Real books. I gave away 2,500 when we moved from L.A. and I still have full bookshelves in every room.

I think I'm superstitious: I'm afraid if I give into Kindle or its PC cousin, all the books in the world will suddenly disappear.

I know. It's like "the day the music died," but books! I agree with the sentiment, but now I love it because I can take it on my phone, etc. But I don't like the idea of what they cost, because it costs FAR LESS to produce there electronic books, and with far less employees. I doubt, though authors are paid a larger percentage due to the technology, either. We're saving trees and all, but still costs us the same or more, so there's no real incentive besides the convenience.

I do love real books, too. I do, I do. I'm don't if I currently have 2500, though. I used to have stacks and stacks of harlequin romances, though.

I recommend you try it this once, in case there's stuff you want to copy and paste from the book. Then, if you want, never do it again.

Oh, and save trip!

 

[wasnt_me]

Here is another article with patrick quotes...

Then, at dawn the next day - and with Knox by now in custody - Patrick was arrested by armed cops. "One officer elbowed me hard in the ribs. Another said he wished we were in America because then I'd get the electric chair.

"They said Amanda had told them I'd raped and stabbed Meredith to death while she was in another room.

"I was furious and felt sick with anger. I told them it was insane. They said if I confessed I'd only serve 15 years in prison, not 30." www.mirror.co.uk​

(Patrick's attorney) in closing, Carlo Pacelli spread the same hate-filled message as Patrick in the dailymail article:

..said Knox had murdered then incriminated his client because she was a lying, diabolical "double soul" capable of being both saintly and satanic at the same time.

"Is Amanda Knox the angelic [person] we see here?" said Mr Pacelli, turning to point fiercely at Knox. "Or is she a diabolical she-devil, an explosive concentrate of sex, drugs and alcohol? She is both. But the latter is the Amanda we saw on November 1, 2007."

snip
Mr Pacelli repeatedly described what he called Knox's poor hygiene habits – the fact that she sometimes did not flush the toilet, and that she brought home lovers and kept condoms and a vibrator in a transparent beauty case in the bathroom.

"Amanda Knox was unclean on the outside because she was dirty on the inside," he said. independent.co.uk​

Pacelli .. so dramatic

This stuff is in Nina's book and I'm so shocked this guy got to have a part of the closing arguments as it pertained to AK being the murderer and not the civil suit that PL was involved in. It sounded to me like PLE charged AK with the slander, so PL had to get a lawyer. It didn't sound like the slander suit was PL's decision. I could be wrong, but it sounds like "slander" is a criminal offense over there. Skewed View can chime in if he knows for sure.

 

[SMK]

The average person with a masters or phd would not be drawn to Burleigh's true crime novel unless they were in to true crime as a side interest.

Not true in this case. I think exposure of the book on Salon.com, Huffington Post, and the NY Times, will get many readers who are interested in Amanda as a person. The case has appeal to people who are not die-hard true crime fans. Just as the Casey Anthony case did.

 

[wasnt_me]

The problem with this whole case is that it has never made any sense that AK and RS participated in the murder of MK. They really didn't know RG and had no reason to conspire with him. There is no evidence that AK had any grudge against MK and, despite attempts to inflate a few incidents such as a noise complaint (of all things!) against AK, neither AK nor RS had any criminal history.

It's like the knife, really. You know how PS kept geting No result and she kept magnifying until she finally got one? The whole guilty argument seems to follow the same procedure.

 

[otto]

Not true in this case. I think exposure of the book on Salon.com, Huffington Post, and the NY Times, will get many readers who are interested in Amanda as a person. The case has appeal to people who are not die-hard true crime fans. Just as the Casey Anthony case did.

If anything, someone might read the book because they are looking for a trashy "true crime" novel to read while wasting a few hours, but not because Knox is an interesting person. There is nothing about Knox that makes her interesting. People may be curious about the predicament she got herself into, but I doubt anyone wants to see Knox at the age of 12 posing for her soccer photo, hear about her broken home, or read about how she blew off a job at the Bundesrepublik so she could drink wine and smoke dope at the park.

 

[otto]

It's like the knife, really. You know how PS kept geting No result and she kept magnifying until she finally got one? The whole guilty argument seems to follow the same procedure.

Is there something wrong with re-calibrating a machine until a reading can be obtained? Since the resulting reading was indeed a match to Meredith, it's safe to assume that the re-calibrations were done correctly. If the DNA did not match anyone remotely associated with the murder, then perhaps it could be said that there was something incorrect in the procedure.

The only criticism to be made about the knife blade DNA analysis is that perhaps the DNA was on the machine prior to the testing (and re-calibrations), but even that possibility is minimized due to the 6 day gap between the knife DNA testing and prior use of the machine.

 

[emyr]

I am not sure what you are looking for. A 'normal' murder? Had there not been any knives we would never even heard of this. There might have been a small article in the local newspaper how a foreign college girl was assaulted by 3 drunk kids but that is it. The 3 against 1 situation is not so absurd. It is the knife thing that turned this assault into an absurd murder. JMO.

I think we would have never heard of it if the accused hadn't of been an attractive young girl who was a foreigner. Abnormal crimes get more attention than typical crimes. i.e. Joran Van Der Sloot.

 

[SMK]

If anything, someone might read the book because they are looking for a trashy "true crime" novel to read while wasting a few hours, but not because Knox is an interesting person. There is nothing about Knox that makes her interesting. People may be curious about the predicament she got herself into, but I doubt anyone wants to see Knox at the age of 12 posing for her soccer photo, hear about her broken home, or read about how she blew off a job at the Bundesrepublik so she could drink wine and smoke dope at the park.

:razz:

 

[otto]

:razz:

If you disagree, please tell what about Knox makes her an interesting person?