Meredith Kercher murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #3

[Isabella]

timing is everything, as of right now, the prosecution can't decide it they are going to charge her, "We'll see," it's like thay are daring amanda to even blink

Aw poor poor Amanda.

You said she spoke about this at the pre-trial. Well sorry but why did she wait that long? Immediately after it happened why did her lawyer not bring it to the attention of the prosecutors or even the national media...that this poor girl was getting hit by the nasty Italian cops. Why immediately after it happen did her lawyers or parents not go to the media and say a innocent man has been locked up because the police forced a confession out of Amanda by "tapping" her on the head. In all honesty her parents seemed vocal enough other times and yet not this time funnily enough.

Her allegations should have been looked at way before any trial but couldnt be..cause the claims..very very strangely hadnt even been made at that point.

 

[Tizzle]

Um, what are you talking about, Isabella? :waitasec: When Amanda first made mention of being hit by police it was LONG before any trial and before she ever even appeared in a court of law. She speaks of it in her written "statement" to police on Nov. 6, 2007.

Amanda's "statement"
BBM

This is very strange, I know, but really what happened is as confusing to me as it is to everyone else. I have been told there is hard evidence saying that I was at the place of the murder of my friend when it happened. This, I want to confirm, is something that to me, if asked a few days ago, would be impossible.

I know that Raffaele has placed evidence against me, saying that I was not with him on the night of Meredith's murder, but let me tell you this. In my mind there are things I remember and things that are confused. My account of this story goes as follows, despite the evidence stacked against me:

On Thursday November 1 I saw Meredith the last time at my house when she left around 3 or 4 in the afternoon. Raffaele was with me at the time. We, Raffaele and I, stayed at my house for a little while longer and around 5 in the evening we left to watch the movie Amelie at his house. After the movie I received a message from Patrik [sic], for whom I work at the pub "Le Chic". He told me in this message that it wasn't necessary for me to come into work for the evening because there was no one at my work.

Now I remember to have also replied with the message: "See you later. Have a good evening!" and this for me does not mean that I wanted to meet him immediately. In particular because I said: "Good evening!" What happened after I know does not match up with what Raffaele was saying, but this is what I remember. I told Raffaele that I didn't have to work and that I could remain at home for the evening. After that I believe we relaxed in his room together, perhaps I checked my email. Perhaps I read or studied or perhaps I made love to Raffaele. In fact, I think I did make love with him.

However, I admit that this period of time is rather strange because I am not quite sure. I smoked marijuana with him and I might even have fallen asleep. These things I am not sure about and I know they are important to the case and to help myself, but in reality, I don't think I did much. One thing I do remember is that I took a shower with Raffaele and this might explain how we passed the time. In truth, I do not remember exactly what day it was, but I do remember that we had a shower and we washed ourselves for a long time. He cleaned my ears, he dried and combed my hair.

One of the things I am sure that definitely happened the night on which Meredith was murdered was that Raffaele and I ate fairly late, I think around 11 in the evening, although I can't be sure because I didn't look at the clock. After dinner I noticed there was blood on Raffaele's hand, but I was under the impression that it was blood from the fish. After we ate Raffaele washed the dishes but the pipes under his sink broke and water flooded the floor. But because he didn't have a mop I said we could clean it up tomorrow because we (Meredith, Laura, Filomena and I) have a mop at home. I remember it was quite late because we were both very tired (though I can't say the time).

The next thing I remember was waking up the morning of Friday November 2nd around 10am and I took a plastic bag to take back my dirty cloths to go back to my house. It was then that I arrived home alone that I found the door to my house was wide open and this all began. In regards to this "confession" that I made last night, I want to make clear that I'm very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressures of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion. Not only was I told I would be arrested and put in jail for 30 years, but I was also hit in the head when I didn't remember a fact correctly. I understand that the police are under a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I received.

However, it was under this pressure and after many hours of confusion that my mind came up with these answers. In my mind I saw Patrik in flashes of blurred images. I saw him near the basketball court. I saw him at my front door. I saw myself cowering in the kitchen with my hands over my ears because in my head I could hear Meredith screaming. But I've said this many times so as to make myself clear: these things seem unreal to me, like a dream, and I am unsure if they are real things that happened or are just dreams my head has made to try to answer the questions in my head and the questions I am being asked.

But the truth is, I am unsure about the truth and here's why:

1. The police have told me that they have hard evidence that places me at the house, my house, at the time of Meredith's murder. I don't know what proof they are talking about, but if this is true, it means I am very confused and my dreams must be real.

2. My boyfriend has claimed that I have said things that I know are not true. I KNOW I told him I didn't have to work that night. I remember that moment very clearly. I also NEVER asked him to lie for me. This is absolutely a lie. What I don't understand is why Raffaele, who has always been so caring and gentle with me, would lie about this. What does he have to hide? I don't think he killed Meredith, but I do think he is scared, like me. He walked into a situation that he has never had to be in, and perhaps he is trying to find a way out by disassociating himself with me.

Honestly, I understand because this is a very scary situation. I also know that the police don't believe things of me that I know I can explain, such as:

1. I know the police are confused as to why it took me so long to call someone after I found the door to my house open and blood in the bathroom. The truth is, I wasn't sure what to think, but I definitely didn't think the worst, that someone was murdered. I thought a lot of things, mainly that perhaps someone got hurt and left quickly to take care of it. I also thought that maybe one of my roommates was having menstral [sic] problems and hadn't cleaned up. Perhaps I was in shock, but at the time I didn't know what to think and that's the truth. That is why I talked to Raffaele about it in the morning, because I was worried and wanted advice.

2. I also know that the fact that I can't fully recall the events that I claim took place at Raffaele's home during the time that Meredith was murdered is incriminating. And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house.

3. I'm very confused at this time. My head is full of contrasting ideas and I know I can be frustrating to work with for this reason. But I also want to tell the truth as best I can. Everything I have said in regards to my involvement in Meredith's death, even though it is contrasting, are the best truth that I have been able to think.

[illegible section]

I'm trying, I really am, because I'm scared for myself. I know I didn't kill Meredith. That's all I know for sure. In these flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrik as the murderer, but the way the truth feels in my mind, there is no way for me to have known because I don't remember FOR SURE if I was at my house that night. The questions that need answering, at least for how I'm thinking are:

1. Why did Raffaele lie? (or for you) Did Raffaele lie?
2. Why did I think of Patrik?
3. Is the evidence proving my pressance [sic] at the time and place of the crime reliable? If so, what does this say about my memory? Is it reliable?
4. Is there any other evidence condemning Patrik or any other person?
3. Who is the REAL murder [sic]? This is particularly important because I don't feel I can be used as condemning testimone [sic] in this instance.

I have a clearer mind that I've had before, but I'm still missing parts, which I know is bad for me. But this is the truth and this is what I'm thinking at this time. Please don't yell at me because it only makes me more confused, which doesn't help anyone. I understand how serious this situation is, and as such, I want to give you this information as soon and as clearly as possible.

If there are still parts that don't make sense, please ask me. I'm doing the best I can, just like you are. Please believe me at least in that, although I understand if you don't. All I know is that I didn't kill Meredith, and so I have nothing but lies to be afraid of.​

 

[Isabella]

Um, what are you talking about, Isabella? :waitasec: When Amanda first made mention of being hit by police it was LONG before any trial and before she ever even appeared in a court of law. She speaks of it in her written "statement" to police on Nov. 6, 2007.

Amanda's "statement"
BBM

This is very strange, I know, but really what happened is as confusing to me as it is to everyone else. I have been told there is hard evidence saying that I was at the place of the murder of my friend when it happened. This, I want to confirm, is something that to me, if asked a few days ago, would be impossible.

I know that Raffaele has placed evidence against me, saying that I was not with him on the night of Meredith's murder, but let me tell you this. In my mind there are things I remember and things that are confused. My account of this story goes as follows, despite the evidence stacked against me:

On Thursday November 1 I saw Meredith the last time at my house when she left around 3 or 4 in the afternoon. Raffaele was with me at the time. We, Raffaele and I, stayed at my house for a little while longer and around 5 in the evening we left to watch the movie Amelie at his house. After the movie I received a message from Patrik [sic], for whom I work at the pub "Le Chic". He told me in this message that it wasn't necessary for me to come into work for the evening because there was no one at my work.

Now I remember to have also replied with the message: "See you later. Have a good evening!" and this for me does not mean that I wanted to meet him immediately. In particular because I said: "Good evening!" What happened after I know does not match up with what Raffaele was saying, but this is what I remember. I told Raffaele that I didn't have to work and that I could remain at home for the evening. After that I believe we relaxed in his room together, perhaps I checked my email. Perhaps I read or studied or perhaps I made love to Raffaele. In fact, I think I did make love with him.

However, I admit that this period of time is rather strange because I am not quite sure. I smoked marijuana with him and I might even have fallen asleep. These things I am not sure about and I know they are important to the case and to help myself, but in reality, I don't think I did much. One thing I do remember is that I took a shower with Raffaele and this might explain how we passed the time. In truth, I do not remember exactly what day it was, but I do remember that we had a shower and we washed ourselves for a long time. He cleaned my ears, he dried and combed my hair.

One of the things I am sure that definitely happened the night on which Meredith was murdered was that Raffaele and I ate fairly late, I think around 11 in the evening, although I can't be sure because I didn't look at the clock. After dinner I noticed there was blood on Raffaele's hand, but I was under the impression that it was blood from the fish. After we ate Raffaele washed the dishes but the pipes under his sink broke and water flooded the floor. But because he didn't have a mop I said we could clean it up tomorrow because we (Meredith, Laura, Filomena and I) have a mop at home. I remember it was quite late because we were both very tired (though I can't say the time).

The next thing I remember was waking up the morning of Friday November 2nd around 10am and I took a plastic bag to take back my dirty cloths to go back to my house. It was then that I arrived home alone that I found the door to my house was wide open and this all began. In regards to this "confession" that I made last night, I want to make clear that I'm very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressures of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion. Not only was I told I would be arrested and put in jail for 30 years, but I was also hit in the head when I didn't remember a fact correctly. I understand that the police are under a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I received.

However, it was under this pressure and after many hours of confusion that my mind came up with these answers. In my mind I saw Patrik in flashes of blurred images. I saw him near the basketball court. I saw him at my front door. I saw myself cowering in the kitchen with my hands over my ears because in my head I could hear Meredith screaming. But I've said this many times so as to make myself clear: these things seem unreal to me, like a dream, and I am unsure if they are real things that happened or are just dreams my head has made to try to answer the questions in my head and the questions I am being asked.

But the truth is, I am unsure about the truth and here's why:

1. The police have told me that they have hard evidence that places me at the house, my house, at the time of Meredith's murder. I don't know what proof they are talking about, but if this is true, it means I am very confused and my dreams must be real.

2. My boyfriend has claimed that I have said things that I know are not true. I KNOW I told him I didn't have to work that night. I remember that moment very clearly. I also NEVER asked him to lie for me. This is absolutely a lie. What I don't understand is why Raffaele, who has always been so caring and gentle with me, would lie about this. What does he have to hide? I don't think he killed Meredith, but I do think he is scared, like me. He walked into a situation that he has never had to be in, and perhaps he is trying to find a way out by disassociating himself with me.

Honestly, I understand because this is a very scary situation. I also know that the police don't believe things of me that I know I can explain, such as:

1. I know the police are confused as to why it took me so long to call someone after I found the door to my house open and blood in the bathroom. The truth is, I wasn't sure what to think, but I definitely didn't think the worst, that someone was murdered. I thought a lot of things, mainly that perhaps someone got hurt and left quickly to take care of it. I also thought that maybe one of my roommates was having menstral [sic] problems and hadn't cleaned up. Perhaps I was in shock, but at the time I didn't know what to think and that's the truth. That is why I talked to Raffaele about it in the morning, because I was worried and wanted advice.

2. I also know that the fact that I can't fully recall the events that I claim took place at Raffaele's home during the time that Meredith was murdered is incriminating. And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house.

3. I'm very confused at this time. My head is full of contrasting ideas and I know I can be frustrating to work with for this reason. But I also want to tell the truth as best I can. Everything I have said in regards to my involvement in Meredith's death, even though it is contrasting, are the best truth that I have been able to think.

[illegible section]

I'm trying, I really am, because I'm scared for myself. I know I didn't kill Meredith. That's all I know for sure. In these flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrik as the murderer, but the way the truth feels in my mind, there is no way for me to have known because I don't remember FOR SURE if I was at my house that night. The questions that need answering, at least for how I'm thinking are:

1. Why did Raffaele lie? (or for you) Did Raffaele lie?
2. Why did I think of Patrik?
3. Is the evidence proving my pressance [sic] at the time and place of the crime reliable? If so, what does this say about my memory? Is it reliable?
4. Is there any other evidence condemning Patrik or any other person?
3. Who is the REAL murder [sic]? This is particularly important because I don't feel I can be used as condemning testimone [sic] in this instance.

I have a clearer mind that I've had before, but I'm still missing parts, which I know is bad for me. But this is the truth and this is what I'm thinking at this time. Please don't yell at me because it only makes me more confused, which doesn't help anyone. I understand how serious this situation is, and as such, I want to give you this information as soon and as clearly as possible.

If there are still parts that don't make sense, please ask me. I'm doing the best I can, just like you are. Please believe me at least in that, although I understand if you don't. All I know is that I didn't kill Meredith, and so I have nothing but lies to be afraid of.
​

That statement just makes her look even worse in my opinion. But regardless thats not what i asked. I asked why did she not make a offical complaint about what she claims happened? Why did her people not scream from the highest roof tops about what she claimed happened? Where did this blood supposedly come from from she claims Raf had on him?

From that statement..

"
I'm trying, I really am, because I'm scared for myself. I know I didn't kill Meredith. That's all I know for sure. In these flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrik as the murderer, but the way the truth feels in my mind, there is no way for me to have known because I don't remember FOR SURE if I was at my house that night. The questions that need answering, at least for how I'm thinking are: "

Okay.... lol...


and "
Now I remember to have also replied with the message: "See you later. Have a good evening!" and this for me does not mean that I wanted to meet him immediately. In particular because I said: "Good evening!" What happened after I know does not match up with what Raffaele was saying, but this is what I remember. I told Raffaele that I didn't have to work and that I could remain at home for the evening. After that I believe we relaxed in his room together, perhaps I checked my email. Perhaps I read or studied or perhaps I made love to Raffaele. In fact, I think I did make love with him.

However, I admit that this period of time is rather strange because I am not quite sure. I smoked marijuana with him and I might even have fallen asleep. These things I am not sure about and I know they are important to the case and to help myself, but in reality, I don't think I did much. One thing I do remember is that I took a shower with Raffaele and this might explain how we passed the time. In truth, I do not remember exactly what day it was, but I do remember that we had a shower and we washed ourselves for a long time. He cleaned my ears, he dried and combed my hair. "


So she remembers he cleaned her ears and dried and combed her hair but everything else is perhaps...perhaps we did this..perhaps we did that...i am sorry but i find this statement laughable and totally unbelieveable and just sad to be honest that someone would come out with that crap when being interviewed about a "friends " murder.

 

[NickoD]

And to follow up on what Isabella said there are other areas in that statement that contradict each other. In particular she said:

"2. My boyfriend has claimed that I have said things that I know are not true. I KNOW I told him I didn't have to work that night. I remember that moment very clearly."

Which contradicts this after her rambling:

"In truth, I do not remember exactly what day it was..."

 

[Rosa Moline]

That statement just makes her look even worse in my opinion. But regardless thats not what i asked. I asked why did she not make a offical complaint about what she claims happened? Why did her people not scream from the highest roof tops about what she claimed happened? Where did this blood supposedly come from from she claims Raf had on him?

From that statement..

"
I'm trying, I really am, because I'm scared for myself. I know I didn't kill Meredith. That's all I know for sure. In these flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrik as the murderer, but the way the truth feels in my mind, there is no way for me to have known because I don't remember FOR SURE if I was at my house that night. The questions that need answering, at least for how I'm thinking are: "

Okay.... lol...


and "
Now I remember to have also replied with the message: "See you later. Have a good evening!" and this for me does not mean that I wanted to meet him immediately. In particular because I said: "Good evening!" What happened after I know does not match up with what Raffaele was saying, but this is what I remember. I told Raffaele that I didn't have to work and that I could remain at home for the evening. After that I believe we relaxed in his room together, perhaps I checked my email. Perhaps I read or studied or perhaps I made love to Raffaele. In fact, I think I did make love with him.

However, I admit that this period of time is rather strange because I am not quite sure. I smoked marijuana with him and I might even have fallen asleep. These things I am not sure about and I know they are important to the case and to help myself, but in reality, I don't think I did much. One thing I do remember is that I took a shower with Raffaele and this might explain how we passed the time. In truth, I do not remember exactly what day it was, but I do remember that we had a shower and we washed ourselves for a long time. He cleaned my ears, he dried and combed my hair. "


So she remembers he cleaned her ears and dried and combed her hair but everything else is perhaps...perhaps we did this..perhaps we did that...i am sorry but i find this statement laughable and totally unbelieveable and just sad to be honest that someone would come out with that crap when being interviewed about a "friends " murder.

I disagree - re-reading this statement makes me even MORE convinced of her & Rafalle's innocence. Just out of interest Isabella, if R & A are freed on appeal would this sway your opinion of their guilt?

 

[Isabella]

I disagree - re-reading this statement makes me even MORE convinced of her & Rafalle's innocence. Just out of interest Isabella, if R & A are freed on appeal would this sway your opinion of their guilt?

No it wouldnt..because imo theres far too much evidence that shes guilty. That statement IMO makes her look totally nuts. I personally dont understand how that statement can make anyone think shes innocent..and if thats the effect of drugs im glad i have never took them.

JMO

 

[Tizzle]

Seattle: Comedy show benefit to raise money for Amanda Knox appeal a success (Slideshow)

January 30, 2010 - The comedy benefit organized to help free Amanda Knox from prison held at Comedy Underground in Seattle Wednesday was a success and raised not only money for the Amanda Knox appeal fund, it also raised awareness.

The hope was to raise $10,000 and while they didn’t reach that goal, they did do well with 109 people who purchased tickets for the event at $50 per ticket.

Including performers there were 130 people in total at the event.

Since Amanda’s arrest in 2007, flights to Italy and legal expenses have financially devastated the Knox family.

Long-time family friend, Renee Perrault of Renton, has known the Knox family since before Amanda was born.

Perrault has never believed Amanda is guilty and wanted to help fund the upcoming appeal.

Controversy has surrounded this case with bloggers not holding back their thoughts and opinions.

Perrault read some of their posts and said, “After reading all the anonymous bloggers I was concerned about some showing up but none did. I imagine they like to hide safely behind their anonymity.”

This is often the case with anonymous posters. They often tend to say things from behind their computer screens that they would never consider saying to someone face-to-face.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

She wanted to reiterate that all of the comics who performed Wednesday night understand the tragedy Kercher's family has faced. “They have our sincere sympathies”, she said.

“However,” Perrault said, “We believe in Amanda's innocence and wanted to help the family. I'm in a comedy group that has done fundraisers for Cancer, MS, AIDS and Breast Cancer. People like to be entertained when they donate money.”

"No disrespect was intended," Perrault said, “There were no jokes about Italy, the trial, or anything to do with the situation. To suggest that we would do so (as stated numerous times by the bloggers) is as insensitive and tacky as they were accusing us of being.”

“We accomplished our goal, to help the family help Amanda.”

Meredith Kercher was brutally murdered in Perugia, Italy, on Nov. 1, 2007.

On Nov. 6 Italian police arrested Amanda Knox, along with others, in connection with the murder. After a trial that began Jan. 16, 2009, Amanda was found guilty Dec. 4 and was sentenced to 26 years in prison.

Her parents do not believe their daughter is guilty and plan to appeal the verdict.

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Sea...-raise-money-for-Amanda-Knox-appeal-a-success

 

[Isabella]

Isn't Seattle big?

109 people Seem rather a flop to me given to me i thought so many supposedly thought she was innocent there..

JMO

 

[missyjane77]

So, for those of us who want to form our own opinions a based on the evidence, what do you feel are the most important things to look at first?

 

[miley]

Your kidding right? Did you read the next 50 or so post where Bongiorno's theory was shown to be wrong...

I did... there are a thousand theories floating around and Kaly is the only one who has made any sense out of it

I did read the rest of the thread, yeah. I saw one person saying she didn't think the people in the CCTV footage were the postal police (even though the postal police acknowledged it was them), someone else saying they thought Bongiorno's calculations were wrong (without saying how), and one person throwing his toys out of the pram and saying it didn't matter anyway and why was such a small thing being discussed and it didn't make them innocent! Oh, and then they all went off on some crazy conspiracy theory about the original poster and another being in some tag team to bring down PMF or something, since they'd both started posting at the same time. Which bit of that showed Bongiorno's theory to be wrong?

It wasn't shown to be wrong in court, either. In her closing, Comodi seemed to drop the prosecution's original claim that the CCTV was fast by 10 or 20 minutes, saying instead that RS called the carabinieri 5 minutes after the postal police arrived. The problem is that time doesn't work either, since if the postal police had arrived at 12:46, RS and AK would have made 4 calls in the following 8 minutes without the police noticing (at 12:47, 12:50, 12:51 and 12:54). The prosecution probably dropped their original theory because Bongiorno had proved it to be wrong, but their new theory is no more logical.

My guess as to why the police originally thought the CCTV was 10-20 minutes fast is that they took Battistelli's word for it that he arrived at 12:35, so when they saw that he appeared on CCTV at 12:48, they assumed the clock must have been at least 10 minutes fast. In other words, they didn't use the CCTV time to verify Battistelli's arrival, they used Battistelli's stated arrival time to verify the CCTV time. For the same reason, when they saw RS's first call to the police was at 12:51 they immediately assumed this was some time after the police got there, because they believed Battistelli without checking if he was right. Almost difficult to believe they would be that dumb. But then again maybe not...

ETA: These are the exact times of the phone calls according to PMF:

12:47:23 - 12:48:51 Amanda calls mother
12:50:34 - 12:51:13 Raffaele calls sister
12:51:40 - 12:54:29 Raffaele calls police, the call is interrupted
12:54.39 - 12:55:36 Raffaele calls police again, Amanda is with him

 

[miley]

Just don't assume that the over 13 judges and the jurors were swayed by the news media and rumors. If you (as a juror) were told to only base your decision on facts of evidence could you do such a thing? We should assume you could after an oath to verify it so... like we are assuming of them.

it's different in the US - while juries may not be sequestered that often, the judge informs them not to watch, read or discuss anything about the trial outside of court...the judge takes it seriously because if a juror does, either side can ask for a mistrial. time is wasted and expense (doubles, triples) mistrials are declared all the time, you know this and when confidential information is leaked to the press there can be serious consequences - look at scooter libby

this has been discussed dgfred, in Italy, jurors are allowed to weigh in on public opinion - missyjane provided a link from newsweek
http://www.newsweek.com/id/225313

and here is something else, during the 2009 Perugia International Journalism Festival,

Italy’s most reknown crime reporters, lawyers and criminologists, among them Corriere della Sera-journalist Fiorenza Sarzanini, discussed about morbidity, senselessness of ‘modern’ crimes and excessive media reporting on the top pages of Italy’s media.​

Fiorenza Sarzanini, author of (based primarily on leaked information) “Amanda and the others,” weighs in

“You need a victim, a suspected person denying or confessing its guilt. This is it.” The details then, anatomized in any single vulgar characteristic, make the story a big story.​

according to Massimo Matinelli, journalist at the Italian daily Il Messagero,

“When there is a risk of overexposure of the victim, you reach the border"
“We know how attractive crime news is. Public opinion is asking for crime news. Thus the role of journalists is essentilal. We cannot simply tell the story. We have to provide sound information, sometimes set things right.”
How important this last point, the accuracy and correctnes of crime news is, criminologist Massimo Picorzzi pointed out:
“It is often the jury in a trial that looks for information in media to have an impression of the public opinion. Mass media therefore has massive influence also on the jury’s decisions.”
http://www.orangelog.eu/en/topics/int-journalism-festival-perugia/articles/article/article/195/273/
​

did you read that dgfred: “It is often the jury in a trial that looks for information in media to have an impression of the public opinion. Mass media therefore has massive influence also on the jury’s decisions.”

and if that's not enough, then consider this, Judge Micheli even thought the negative press/leaks exceeded the usual Italian standards

By week's end Judge Micheli was so disgusted with the witness shenanigans--not to mention the press leaks and the unidentified person who used a cellphone to illegally snap Knox in court-- that he declared:
"This is not only unworthy of Perugia, but it is unworthy of a civilized country."
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/149984.asp​

 

[SleuthyGal]

With the Italian system as it is, and the open access to the media, I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect Italian juries to ignore, let alone discount, media reports, leaks, etc. I'm sure it's hard for them to ignore such things and if they aren't restricted in accessing such reports then they can't help but be swayed by local sentiment--it could happen to anyone & they're only human.

Can a jury put aside any rumors, leaks or reports that they hear from sources outside of just what happens in the courtroom? That's always the worry, regardless of where a trial occurs. Is the Italian environment particularly insensitive to such things? I don't know the system in Italy, but I would feel I was at a distinct disadvantage were I ever being tried in any non-U.S. country, esp. not knowing what I might be up against in the system.

 

[Isabella]

With the Italian system as it is, and the open access to the media, I'm not sure how realistic it is to expect Italian juries to ignore, let alone discount, media reports, leaks, etc. I'm sure it's hard for them to ignore such things and if they aren't restricted in accessing such reports then they can't help but be swayed by local sentiment--it could happen to anyone & they're only human.

Can a jury put aside any rumors, leaks or reports that they hear from sources outside of just what happens in the courtroom? That's always the worry, regardless of where a trial occurs. Is the Italian environment particularly insensitive to such things? I don't know the system in Italy, but I would feel I was at a distinct disadvantage were I ever being tried in any non-U.S. country, esp. not knowing what I might be up against in the system.

To be honest...for the same reason i would not want to be tried in America. Personally i dont see Italy and America as that different at all however much you guy may argue. From what ive seen your crimes are played out in the media....i fiind it impossible to believe that people could have a fair trial after fiascos such as Nancy Grace..

 

[Tizzle]

So, for those of us who want to form our own opinions a based on the evidence, what do you feel are the most important things to look at first?

There's so many, but I'll start with this one:
For me, the lack of evidence placing Amanda in Meredith's room is one of the most important pieces of information to consider. Also, almost no evidence of Raf being there besides the bra clasp. However, for various reasons, I firmly believe the bra clasp was at least contaminated if not outright tampered with. Without it, there is also nothing placing RS in Meredith's room. As horrific as this crime scene surely was, there would have been evidence of them all over the place in Meridith's room and more than just a bra clasp, like there was for RG. No one could 'clean-up' only their own DNA, hair and other evidence. No one.

 

[Tizzle]

Amanda Knox head prosecutor charged with 'abuse of power'
January 31, 2010

While it is too soon to determine if the verdict against Mignini will better position Knox and Sollecito to be released during their appeal, some media outlets report that the court may take a second look at Mignini’s methods in the Knox case and search for red flags, including the possibility of the prosecution’s leaking false information about Knox to the press.

“The Florentine prosecutor asked for 10 months of prison for Mignini, but the judge felt his crimes were so severe he gave him 16 months instead,” said Douglas Preston, in a phone interview with the West Seattle Herald.

Preston, an American, and his Italian writing partner, Mario Spezi, wrote the best-selling book “The Monster of Florence” and were indicted for perjury by Mignini and accused of being involved in the serial killings because, as they see it, their own investigation contradicted Mignini’s and embarrassed him. Tom Cruise is currently in production filming a movie based on the book.

“There is absolutely no way to spin this in Mignini’s favor,” Preston said. “This is truly an embarrassment in Italy.

“Mignini threatened small newspapers and local journalists with lawsuits and investigations, but he did not go after Timothy Egan who attacked him in his New York Times articles.”

Egan is the Times’ Pulitzer Prize winning Northwest correspondent in Seattle, and wrote opinion pieces in support of Knox and Sollecito in the June 12 and Dec. 12 Opinion Page of the New York Times.

“But he went after (author) Joe Cottonwood who attacked him on his blog.”

And of course he went after Preston and Spezi.

Preston said that Mignini announced in court that he dropped his charges against Preston but continued to state that Preston was involved with the serial killing.

“His pattern of abuse, and what Spezi was convicted for is quite evident in the Knox case,” said Preston. “It certainly does cast a pall in his accusations in the case against Amanda Knox.”

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2010/01/31/news/amanda-knox-head-prosecutor-charged-abuse-power

 

[Isabella]

Lol it smacks of desperation to me

 

[missyjane77]

There's so many, but I'll start with this one:
For me, the lack of evidence placing Amanda in Meredith's room is one of the most important pieces of information to consider. Also, almost no evidence of Raf being there besides the bra clasp. However, for various reasons, I firmly believe the bra clasp was at least contaminated if not outright tampered with. Without it, there is also nothing placing RS in Meredith's room. As horrific as this crime scene surely was, there would have been evidence of them all over the place in Meridith's room and more than just a bra clasp, like there was for RG. No one could 'clean-up' only their own DNA, hair and other evidence. No one.

First, let me thank you for that article about Mignini. He's shady and I hope his conviction helps Amanda and Raphael.

How would a person only clean up their DNA anyway? It's impossible. You can't distinguish one person's DNA from another unless you do lab tests. From the looks/sounds of it, it was a pretty violent crime. There is no way, if Amanda and Raphael were in that room, that their DNA was so miniscule.

Also, if Amanda is such a "liar", then why are people quick to believe her "admission of guilt"? Why can't she be lying about that? It has to work both ways. If she's such a liar, how do we know what parts of what she said are true?

 

[missyjane77]

Also, where are the defense wounds on Amanda and Raphael? I would think there would have been a struggle of some sort. Were Meredith's nails scraped? That's standard protocol in forensic investigations, right? Who's DNA was found? Anyone's?

 

[Isabella]

Also, where are the defense wounds on Amanda and Raphael? I would think there would have been a struggle of some sort. Were Meredith's nails scraped? That's standard protocol in forensic investigations, right? Who's DNA was found? Anyone's?

Was Guede covered in cuts or anything?

 

[dgfred]

There's so many, but I'll start with this one:
For me, the lack of evidence placing Amanda in Meredith's room is one of the most important pieces of information to consider. Also, almost no evidence of Raf being there besides the bra clasp. However, for various reasons, I firmly believe the bra clasp was at least contaminated if not outright tampered with. Without it, there is also nothing placing RS in Meredith's room. As horrific as this crime scene surely was, there would have been evidence of them all over the place in Meridith's room and more than just a bra clasp, like there was for RG. No one could 'clean-up' only their own DNA, hair and other evidence. No one.

Of course nobody knows exactly what part each one of the killers did and what the others did until one of them spills all the beans.

There is a footprint the size of AK's foot in MK's room. There is the bra clasp and barefoot prints of RS in the bathroom and outside MK's room. Obvious clean up of footprints leading to the one on the bathmat... it did not materialize out of thin air.

So if say AK had only a minor part in the actual murder... does it make her less guilty than the other two? No, since she is the likely reason the two males were there in the first place. Does it make RS not guilty if he only staged the sexual assault or only held her? No, He is guilty for being a part of it only if it was a small part.