Meredith Kercher murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #3

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First, let me thank you for that article about Mignini. He's shady and I hope his conviction helps Amanda and Raphael.

How would a person only clean up their DNA anyway? It's impossible. You can't distinguish one person's DNA from another unless you do lab tests. From the looks/sounds of it, it was a pretty violent crime. There is no way, if Amanda and Raphael were in that room, that their DNA was so miniscule.

Also, if Amanda is such a "liar", then why are people quick to believe her "admission of guilt"? Why can't she be lying about that? It has to work both ways. If she's such a liar, how do we know what parts of what she said are true?

Why would they need to clean up the dna, both AK lived in and even RS had been in the cottage before? If the prosecution claimed AK's dna was in the room, everyone would shout about how it was supposed to be there. No win situation claiming their dna in the room.

We don't know what parts are true, but an innocent person has no need to lie at all... much less over and over again. IMO all of AK's lies have bits of partial truth in them, but it is very difficult to figure out what parts.

*If all of you doubt the juror's being able to disreguard the media... maybe you should never be on a jury where you are not sequestered. Just let the judge and attorneys know you would not be able to do it.
 
Was Guede covered in cuts or anything?

Since he wasn't captured for over a month, obviously there would be no way of knowing what injuries RG did or did not receive during a struggle. When he was finally captured, he did have a cut on his hand. It has been suggested that this cut was the result of the struggle with Meredith before her murder, but there is really no way to know for sure, again, since more than a month had passed before his capture. Plenty of time for most wounds to heal.
 
Of course nobody knows exactly what part each one of the killers did and what the others did until one of them spills all the beans.

There is a footprint the size of AK's foot in MK's room. There is the bra clasp and barefoot prints of RS in the bathroom and outside MK's room. Obvious clean up of footprints leading to the one on the bathmat... it did not materialize out of thin air.

The shoeprint on the pillowcase in MK's room that the prosecution said 'could be compatible' with AK's shoe size was shown to be made by a size 45 Nike Outbreak 2 by Professor Francesco Vinci of the University of Bari's department of Forensic Medicine. All prints in MK's room were shown to be made by the size 45 Outbreak. Rudy dumped the shoes in Germany.

The bra clasp was clearly contaminated and tested using highly controversial testing techniques. IMO, it was most likely tampered with by the prosecution and it's "experts" and not really a piece of evidence against him to begin with.

The footprint in the bathroom is cleary compatible with RG's foot and not RS'. You can see that with the naked eye, no experts needed to figure that one out. It is only a partial print because I believe RG either used the towels to walk on between MK's room and the bathroom or he used the towels to clean up blood in the hall in order to buy himself more time for his getaway, so that no one would notice as quickly and it worked since Amanda didn't notice anything was amiss until after showering and drying her hair. Neither did the Postal Police or Filomena and her friends.

I stand by my statement that there is NO evidence of AK in MK's room and very questionable evidence of RS being there. This is a problem. HUGE problem. There would be evidence of them all over the room, like there was for Guede, if they were involved. But they weren't, so there isn't...

So if say AK had only a minor part in the actual murder... does it make her less guilty than the other two? No, since she is the likely reason the two males were there in the first place. Does it make RS not guilty if he only staged the sexual assault or only held her? No, He is guilty for being a part of it only if it was a small part.
A&R had NO part in the murder. They weren't even at the cottage until the next morning and Amanda didn't let anybody into the cottage to harm Meredith. They are guilty of NONE of it. NADA. Not even a "minor part". Can't wait for the appeals to prove it. ;)
 
*If all of you doubt the juror's being able to disreguard the media... maybe you should never be on a jury where you are not sequestered. Just let the judge and attorneys know you would not be able to do it.

If the case is going to be subject to the scrutiny, FALSE LEAKS and sensationalism, like this one has, I'll be sure to remember your advice. Thanks. ;)
 
If the case is going to be subject to the scrutiny, FALSE LEAKS and sensationalism, like this one has, I'll be sure to remember your advice. Thanks. ;)

Like cases in America arent worse lol..

JMO but they really really are :)
 
The shoeprint on the pillowcase in MK's room that the prosecution said 'could be compatible' with AK's shoe size was shown to be made by a size 45 Nike Outbreak 2 by Professor Francesco Vinci of the University of Bari's department of Forensic Medicine. All prints in MK's room were shown to be made by the size 45 Outbreak. Rudy dumped the shoes in Germany.

The bra clasp was clearly contaminated and tested using highly controversial testing techniques. IMO, it was most likely tampered with by the prosecution and it's "experts" and not really a piece of evidence against him to begin with.

The footprint in the bathroom is cleary compatible with RG's foot and not RS'. You can see that with the naked eye, no experts needed to figure that one out. It is only a partial print because I believe RG either used the towels to walk on between MK's room and the bathroom or he used the towels to clean up blood in the hall in order to buy himself more time for his getaway, so that no one would notice as quickly and it worked since Amanda didn't notice anything was amiss until after showering and drying her hair. Neither did the Postal Police or Filomena and her friends.

I stand by my statement that there is NO evidence of AK in MK's room and very questionable evidence of RS being there. This is a problem. HUGE problem. There would be evidence of them all over the room, like there was for Guede, if they were involved. But they weren't, so there isn't...



A&R had NO part in the murder. They weren't even at the cottage until the next morning and Amanda didn't let anybody into the cottage to harm Meredith. They are guilty of NONE of it. NADA. Not even a "minor part". Can't wait for the appeals to prove it. ;)

No, there was another shoeprint that was females and compatible with AK's foot size... not MK.

The bra clasp was collected with all defense and 'experts' allowed to be there
at the time of collection. Wonder why there were no complaints from THEM that it was contaminated? Not to mention no proof of contamination offered in court.

The testing of the bra clasp and the KNIFE either had defense experts there, or they COULD have been if so desired. Why would they NOT be there or not be able to prove in court that anything was suspect... because they couldn't.

Ha, no way that footprint can be made to fit RG... what, did he take off he shoes for a few minutes to make some 'extra' prints? Yeah, he is gonna clean up some BAREFOOT prints but leave SHOEPRINTS all around the body and out the front door... that is the least possible scenario yet imo.

Like I said, there IS evidence of AK in the room, and plenty of dna of RS... not just a little and it was obviously NOT a huge problem as they were found guilty. The huge problem lies for the defenses trying to explain away all the circumstancial evidence and lying done by their clients!!!

The appeal will be a crushing defeat for AK and RS supporters imo. I can't wait to hear the spin afterwards... should be interesting to say the least.
 
No, there was another shoeprint that was females and compatible with AK's foot size... not MK.
please back this up with a link
The bra clasp was collected with all defense and 'experts' allowed to be there at the time of collection. Wonder why there were no complaints from THEM that it was contaminated? Not to mention no proof of contamination offered in court.
There were complaints - the guys gloves were dirty... you can actually see the dirt on his fingers in the video. also, (boring to repeat) collected over a month later. beyond that, the condition of meredith's room at that point was atrocious... what were the investigators thinking (doing)- they ransacked it, clothes all over the place, things stacked on top of each other, a complete mess
The testing of the bra clasp and the KNIFE either had defense experts there, or they COULD have been if so desired. Why would they NOT be there or not be able to prove in court that anything was suspect... because they couldn't.
initial reports said "too low" - the defense wasn't allowed to view records, why?
Ha, no way that footprint can be made to fit RG... what, did he take off he shoes for a few minutes to make some 'extra' prints? Yeah, he is gonna clean up some BAREFOOT prints but leave SHOEPRINTS all around the body and out the front door... that is the least possible scenario yet imo.
yeah, because he (rudy) knew he'd be throwing his shoes away - which he finally admitted to doing
Like I said, there IS evidence of AK in the room, and plenty of dna of RS... not just a little and it was obviously NOT a huge problem as they were found guilty. The huge problem lies for the defenses trying to explain away all the circumstancial evidence and lying done by their clients!!!

The appeal will be a crushing defeat for AK and RS supporters imo. I can't wait to hear the spin afterwards... should be interesting to say the least.
(evidence of amanda in merediths room) NO there is not
 
If the case is going to be subject to the scrutiny, FALSE LEAKS and sensationalism, like this one has, I'll be sure to remember your advice. Thanks. ;)

You won't have to Tizzle. In the US, if it's a high profile case such as this, you would be sequestered regardless.
 
Why would they need to clean up the dna, both AK lived in and even RS had been in the cottage before? If the prosecution claimed AK's dna was in the room, everyone would shout about how it was supposed to be there. No win situation claiming their dna in the room.
if amanda's dna, skin was under meredith's nails or if she left bloody fingerprints on her sheet, her hairs on her body, dna on her TAMPON, etc... most likely everyone would think she was guilty and there would be NO discussion. prosecution CAN'T claim "AK's dna was in the room" because it WASN't

*If all of you doubt the juror's being able to disreguard the media... maybe you should never be on a jury where you are not sequestered. Just let the judge and attorneys know you would not be able to do it.

This isn't an opinion! it's not considered misconduct, it's not forbidden, it's allowed --- in italy, jurors are allowed to weigh in on public opinion in their decision making.
 
You won't have to Tizzle. In the US, if it's a high profile case such as this, you would be sequestered regardless.


Right...you say this but..ok take the Casey Anthony case ( Because thats a good example ) it was headline news on Nancy Grace for a year. It was more like the Casey Anthony soap opera. Now when Caseys case goes to court..sure the jury can say that they havent heard or read anything about the case but the simple fact of the matter is that there is NO Proof..and for all the Judge knows it can be the most experienced person on this board about the case. So..sorry but its all hogwash to say its different there to in Italy.

Personally i think our system is much better. Here the defendant has much more privacy once they have been charged and we dont have programmes like Nancy Grace or Greta Van S. Once the trial has finished we will find out more about that person but generally not until then.

I read on here about the "leaks" in Italy and yet..i see on here that jail house videos of inmates are released to the media and even witness statements are released to the media.

Seriously..before you trash the Italian system think about the system you have and how is it so different to there?

JMO
 
The Book "Murder in Italy" is coming out on April 27th if anyone is interested. I hope this is not a pro-Amanda book.

I would like to know more about Amanda and the background she came from and the background of Meredith, Raf & Rudy too.

The woman who wrote it blogs for Seattle PI, Sounds like an interesting book.

Can't wait to read it.

There are two authors from the UK who are writing books about this case as well.

(go to amazon.com and type in Meredith Kercher in the search box and all the books should come up.) there are three so far.
 
No, there was another shoeprint that was females and compatible with AK's foot size... not MK.
BBM

Compatible with. Exactly. It could probably be compatible with my footprint, too. And millions of other women. Thousands, probably, in Perugia alone.

I repeat, all shoeprints in MK's room were found to be made by a size 45 Nike Outbreak 2 according to Professor Francesco Vinci's courtroom testimony. This means it is even more compatible with the shoes Guede got rid of during his little "getaway" to Germany and not so compatible with Amanda's foot anymore.

The bra clasp was collected with all defense and 'experts' allowed to be there
at the time of collection. Wonder why there were no complaints from THEM that it was contaminated? Not to mention no proof of contamination offered in court.

Oh, there were complaints and numerous objections made by the defense. Also, the jury heard evidence that would not have normally been heard had it not been for the defamation trial running concurrently with the murder trial. The interrogation that the Italian Supreme Court ruled violated Amanda's rights and wasn't supposed to be heard was heard because it was Lumumba's only "evidence" against Amanda. Imagine that, the Supreme Court throws it out so Mignini weasles it in by running the trials concurrently. How can this type of trickery be ok with anyone?

The objections and evidence and arguments of the defense weren't heard by me, by you (obviously) or by anyone because the courtroom was basically absent of any media representatives when it was the turn of the defense to offer their arguments, unless you count Frank Sfarzo. Sfarzo was the only reporter that was there for every court date, it can't be disputed. In other words, whenever evidence was presented that could show the duo's innocence it was DOWNPLAYED in the media, it didn't get to us. When it was the turn of the defense to present their case, people that shouldn't have been sleeping, slept. People that should have been paying attention, instead played solitaire or took frequent smoke breaks. There are and were complaints a plenty, for sure, like I said, they just weren't heard.

The testing of the bra clasp and the KNIFE either had defense experts there, or they COULD have been if so desired. Why would they NOT be there or not be able to prove in court that anything was suspect... because they couldn't.

I'm not really clear on this little "factoid". How do we know for certain that the defense was offered to have their own experts present during testing but simply chose not to attend? And if the defense did, in fact, choose on their own not to have their own experts present, why? Why would they do such a thing? Why do we not have a definite answer as to why the defense would choose to not be present and if they even really did refuse the offer? And why is the term 'too low' scribbled in more than one location by Stefanoni on the test results and where is the rest of the story here? No answers. I would like a little more information on why the defense wasn't present during the highly controversial testing before I comment further. Controversial even to Stefanoni, judging by the 'too low' notes she made.

Ha, no way that footprint can be made to fit RG... what, did he take off he shoes for a few minutes to make some 'extra' prints? Yeah, he is gonna clean up some BAREFOOT prints but leave SHOEPRINTS all around the body and out the front door... that is the least possible scenario yet imo..

The footprint matches Guede's foot and doesn't match Raf's foot. You can clearly see that with the naked eye.

Ok, this is what makes the scenario possible; When MK starts bleeding, he hurries to take his shoes off and sets them aside. He then goes to the bathroom to clean the blood off of himself and grabs the towels to clean up his messy, bloody footprints from, at least, the hall and bathroom area so as to not cause immediate alarm for anyone entering the cottage, the longer it takes for the body to be discovered, the longer he has to make a getaway. He carelessly overlooks the bathmat footprint because it's only a partial print and really only looks like a dirt/mud smudge and he figures it won't cause too much alarm. He was right because it didn't. It didn't cause immediate alarm for Amanda, Raf, PP or Filomena and company. Sometime during all of this, he goes through Meredith's purse, grabs her money and keys and his shoes and wipes the bottoms of them off and apparently not very good. He walks out of the room, possibly with a towel still in the doorway. While standing on the towel, he puts on his shoes and throws the towel in the room, closes the door and locks it behind him. As he leaves, his shoes leave the faint footprints because he failed to thouroughly clean Meredith's blood off of them.

Like I said, there IS evidence of AK in the room, and plenty of dna of RS... not just a little and it was obviously NOT a huge problem as they were found guilty. The huge problem lies for the defenses trying to explain away all the circumstancial evidence and lying done by their clients!!! The appeal will be a crushing defeat for AK and RS supporters imo. I can't wait to hear the spin afterwards... should be interesting to say the least.

Like I said, there is NO evidence of Amanda in Meredith's room and a very questionable and minute piece of evidence placing Raf there. They didn't lie, they were forced into giving false statements by Mignini, the man found guilty of abuse of power, apparently this is a hobby of his. I, too, am interested in the "spin" after the appeals, but for very different reasons than you.
 
Was all the DNA testing repeated? If not, it's not reliable...at least it wouldn't be here. In science (and even forensice science), you repeat tests to make sure the results you get are valid. If you don't repeat them, you have no way of knowing if what you have is right or is there was something weird going on.
 
Fact: without the bra clasp, there is NO evidence of RS in MK's room. The bra clasp was passed around (another fact) at the scene, after not being collected for over a month (that's a big no-no).

Fact: there is no AK DNA in MK's room, and aside from a shoe print that may or may not be consistent with AK's size, depending on which expert you choose to believe, no other evidence of AK was found in MK's room to link her to the crime.

So the bloodiest room in the place, the very murder scene itself, is otherwise devoid of evidence that solidly places RS and AK in that room, at the time of the murder. I'm talking evidence like fingerprints, hair, fibers, DNA.
 
What are the chances that Amanda will be free when her appeal comes around?

IF Amanda had nothing to do with this crime ( which I believe she did) then she STUPIDLY convicted herself by waking through a crime scene and leaving her DNA throughout the house. ( the way she acted before and during the trial did not help her either).
 
What are the chances that Amanda will be free when her appeal comes around?

IF Amanda had nothing to do with this crime ( which I believe she did) then she STUPIDLY convicted herself by waking through a crime scene and leaving her DNA throughout the house. ( the way she acted before and during the trial did not help her either).

Smoking marijuana and just being so confused on what the **** she was doing that night doesn't help her any in my eyes either.
 
BBM



Oh, there were complaints and numerous objections made by the defense. Also, the jury heard evidence that would not have normally been heard had it not been for the defamation trial running concurrently with the murder trial. The interrogation that the Italian Supreme Court ruled violated Amanda's rights and wasn't supposed to be heard was heard because it was Lumumba's only "evidence" against Amanda. Imagine that, the Supreme Court throws it out so Mignini weasles it in by running the trials concurrently. How can this type of trickery be ok with anyone?

I thought this was really weird also. How could they run the trials together and present evidence in one that wasn't to be heard in the other?
Makes no sense to me.
 
I don't know if the Italian appeal looks back at evidence or only considers legal errors.

However, If RS's attorney is able to successfully challenge the results found on the bra clasp or call into question how it was processed, then his attorney can make the argument that there is no valid evidence that indicates RS was in the apt. The footprint is suggestive, but not definitive. Now whether such a strategy could or would work, I don't know, but that bra clasp is the strongest piece of evidence (IMHO) linking RS to the crime scene. It might be an improbable uphill battle at this point, and if the appeals judges don't look at evidence as part of the appeal process, it's really a moot point, legally. There's the knife RS owns, of course, but his own DNA is not on that knife.

My thinking is that RS and AK's sentences will be reduced on appeal, but I don't see the Italian courts letting them go free outright. I think maybe they'll try to strike a balance somewhat and give in to each side. I think this because of the political climate and the high visibility of the case, and a complete overturn of the conviction would be a very unpopular thing to do in that region. That sucks, of course, because if they're innocent then they should be free, and if they're guilty they should spend the full amount of their sentences in jail.
 
Tizzle: Also, the jury heard evidence that would not have normally been heard had it not been for the defamation trial running concurrently with the murder trial. The interrogation that the Italian Supreme Court ruled violated Amanda's rights and wasn't supposed to be heard was heard because it was Lumumba's only "evidence" against Amanda. Imagine that, the Supreme Court throws it out so Mignini weasles it in by running the trials concurrently. How can this type of trickery be ok with anyone?

ohh, I didn't realize this - he tacked on Lumumba's slander case against amanda to the tail end of the murder trial? -- so basically, she had two cases against her, presented in one trial with the same jury

I never could figure out why mignini got away with asking amanda about the interrogation since the judges had ruled it out... now that i finally understand, it still doesn't make sense, lol
 
I don't know if the Italian appeal looks back at evidence or only considers legal errors.

However, If RS's attorney is able to successfully challenge the results found on the bra clasp or call into question how it was processed, then his attorney can make the argument that there is no valid evidence that indicates RS was in the apt. The footprint is suggestive, but not definitive. Now whether such a strategy could or would work, I don't know, but that bra clasp is the strongest piece of evidence (IMHO) linking RS to the crime scene. It might be an improbable uphill battle at this point, and if the appeals judges don't look at evidence as part of the appeal process, it's really a moot point, legally. There's the knife RS owns, of course, but his own DNA is not on that knife.

My thinking is that RS and AK's sentences will be reduced on appeal, but I don't see the Italian courts letting them go free outright. I think maybe they'll try to strike a balance somewhat and give in to each side. I think this because of the political climate and the high visibility of the case, and a complete overturn of the conviction would be a very unpopular thing to do in that region. That sucks, of course, because if they're innocent then they should be free, and if they're guilty they should spend the full amount of their sentences in jail.

this is what i've read... the judge, from this past trial, (has 90 days) to release the report outlining the reasons for the guilty verdict...then raffaele and amanda have 40-45? days to seek an appeal based on whatever grounds... the appeal trial will have a new "fresh" judge (no jury) and raffaele and amanda will be allowed to present past evidence and any newly discovered evidence.
since the judge denied the defense's request for an independent review (concerning the dna), Nick Pisa said that, most likely, the first thing the new judge will do is order an independent review. If that happens, I believe raffaele and amanda have a good chance of being acquitted.

something else, (which is interesting)... on the pmf site, I read rudy guede will most likely be out of prison in six years (good behavior) and depending on how his next appeal trial goes, possibly sooner then that. I'll try and find these links. from what I understand, there is some sort of formula used to calculate how much time is taken off... so, if all else fails for raffaele and amanda, I think, they'll at least be entitled time off for "good behavior"

I wonder if mignini will still be the prosecutor? I read somewhere they might have a new one -- I don't know.
 
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