Meredith Kercher murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #3

[missyjane77]

What are the chances that Amanda will be free when her appeal comes around?

IF Amanda had nothing to do with this crime ( which I believe she did) then she STUPIDLY convicted herself by waking through a crime scene and leaving her DNA throughout the house. ( the way she acted before and during the trial did not help her either).

Um, she lived there. Her DNA would be found throughout the house regardless of a crime being committed.

 

[missyjane77]

Smoking marijuana and just being so confused on what the **** she was doing that night doesn't help her any in my eyes either.

Oh, so her smoking pot makes her a murder? I don't think so. LOTS of people smoke pot...even very successful people. That doesn't make them a bad person.

 

[Tizzle]

Why does Mignini continue a "carousel" of defamation suits?
February 3, 9:04 PM

Senator Maria Cantwell has been silent lately about her planned Italian invasion to run the courts in that country. And Secretary of State Hillary Clinton would have been too politically savvy to actually follow up on this. But if Prosecutor Guliano Mignini keeps adding more defamation suits to the fire, arising out of the Amanda Knox trial for the killing of Meredith Kercher, as alleged today, they may be able to completely change the subject from the evidence against Knox to tactics that seem odd in this country.

Blogger Ray Turner sets forth today a list of about seven defamation suits or investigations that are linked to Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini's cases. As noted by Turner, another author of a blog on the Kercher murder today wrote that he received an "indiscretion" clearly revealing that "an investigation for defamation is running against Amanda Knox's lawyer Luciano Ghirga, Raffaele Sollecito's lawyer Luca Maori, and Oggi journalist Giangavino Sulas, along with the director and editor of that magazine." In fact that source indicates there is a "new trial" being initiated against Mario Spezi, one of the authors of "The Monster of Florence." The author of that blog tends to speak in a loose translation to English, so it is unclear if the present tense is intended as to Spezi. Turner believes the case against Knox and former boyfriend Sollecito is ridiculous, and the Perugia-shock blog is no friend to Mignini.

http://www.examiner.com/x-32288-Spo...gnini-continue-a-carousel-of-defamation-suits

 

[Isabella]

I cant help thinking..do people think if they blacken Miginis name enough it takes the focus of the simple fact that Knox Raf and Guede are cold hearted killers? They can focus on Migini all they want but the fact remains..those three HAVE been convicted and MIgini was just ONE person involved in doing so.

 

[ohiogirl]

I can't help wondering, is this standard procedure in Italy to charge anyone who spoke against a prosecution case with defamation? Just wondering.

 

[dgfred]

I can't help wondering, is this standard procedure in Italy to charge anyone who spoke against a prosecution case with defamation? Just wondering.

Just when there is proof of defamation... but no proof regarding what that 'anyone' is defaming about.

IMO the appeals will end with the courts backing their decisions of guilt.

 

[miley]

Just when there is proof of defamation... but no proof regarding what that 'anyone' is defaming about.

IMO the appeals will end with the courts backing their decisions of guilt.

the part I bolded above/but no proof regarding what that 'anyone' is defaming about.
I'm not sure I understand this part... in other words, it's okay to speak out against the prosecution as long as it's backed up with proof, but not okay if there is no proof?

 

[Rosa Moline]

A couple of pages back, it was asked which key questions would we, as individuals like to have an answer if possible in this case - mine are:

How is it, that Amanda & Rafaele were able to do a selective clean-up - leave RG's DNA all over MK's room/body but totally obliterate their own aside from the controversial bra clasp and the MK/AK mixed blood DNA in the bathroom (could there be a rather mundane explanation for that?)

How is it, that by the very same controversial DNA testing that found a miniscule amount of MK's DNA on the alleged murder weapon (which wasn't even blood DNA, whatever it was - let's not forget that the DNA result had to be amplified many times to get a satisfactory result) was not compatible with the wounds - and also, bore NO traces of bleach or being scrubbed - and the fact that IF it WAS the murder weapon, why would it not have been disposed of?! this still makes no sense to me.

How did the computer "expert" manage to "fry" all three hard drives of the computers of Raf, Amanda & Meredith..I mean one is bad enough, incompetent, BUT all three?! Amanda's parents offered, at their own expense to have Amanda's harddrive examined by a USA expert at Toshiba who might have been able to recover the destroyed data - the judge refused! this could have been instrumental in proving their Amanda & Meredith were not enemies as per photographs etc;

When RG fled to Germany, he had a skype conversation with a friend back in Italy...the friend must have told RG that AK & RS were suspects and Rudy said, in no uncertain terms that AK was NOT there. He was completely unaware that the conversation was being recorded. Of course, his story has now changed, and he cannot deny he was there due to the evidence yet he changes his story frequently, sometimes involving the other two and variations thereof. Hence his sentence has been slashed. Hmmm...

When Patrick says he was abused physically and verbally by the police, everyone believes him, yet when AK says same, it's a lie..don't see him being slapped with a defamation suit.

There's absolutely NO MOTIVE whatsoever for AK & RS to kill MK. They had only known each other (AK & RS) for less than two weeks. You don't go from studious industrious college kids to sex crazed psychotic assassins in that short period of time. The fact they like to smoke dope and Amanda liked to flirt with guys/have sex on trains/kept a sex toy had NO bearing or relevance at all - at her age I was a little wild myself and I often reflect that if I was 20 or so years younger again and in a foreign country and caught up in a similar scenario the press would have had a field day unearthing my exploits!

I could go on and on...not to mention the dodgy "witnesses" that Mignini came up with (which were laughable quite frankly)

 

[miley]

links for my earlier post #283...

here is the link referring to what Nick Pisa said about the appeal trial
http://www.news-roma.com/archivio/4423/processo-meredith-maxi-sconto-in-appello-a-rudy-guede/

article talking about rudy getting out in six years... google translation:

They also understood because in England there is a similar mechanism is considered important to confirm the installation accusatory. " I am less willing to understand the mechanisms leading Rudy out of prison in a few years, already in six, since the calculations must also take account of conditional release (granted when it was served half the sentence before and you have more than five years prison) and the so-called 'early release' the person convicted, if it behaves well, can benefit from reduction of ninety days a year, ie six months every two years.
http://www.lastampa.it/redazione/cmsSezioni/cronache/200912articoli/50656girata.asp​

a better translation on the pmf site:
http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=192&start=3000

 

[miley]

adding to Tizzle's post:

the "blog author" Ray Turner is referring to is obviously Frank Sfarzo. yesterday on his site, http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/ he speculated on why the new defamation investigation... (Luciano Ghirga, Luca Maori) must have "expressed some undesired concept" possibly referring to "Amanda being hit."
I assume the Oggi journalist, director and editor are under investigation for printing whatever it is the lawyers said.

the newspaper, ilGiornale's defamation trial is also about to start- remember, they printed an email written by (US author) Joe cottonwood who referred to mignini as an "egotistical prosecutor" and "a preening, intellectually dishonest bully who cares more about making newspaper headlines than in serving justice."

I looked up cottonwood's blog and on monday, he has a post titled, Am I Still a Criminal? and wrote "In September of 2009 I became a criminal in Italy. My crime was to speak my opinion about an incompetent Italian prosecutor named Giuliano Mignini. Mignini responded by saying he would indict me for defamation and further that he would indict the journalist who quoted me and the newspaper that printed it."
http://clearheartblog.blogspot.com/

Also, FS says, during the Narducci-Monster of Florence case, Spezi referred to mignini's work as (something like) shameful. Mignini is quoted as saying, "In that trial I can constitute myself a civil party against Spezi --Mignini announces-- I can ask of him a lot of money."

from what I can tell, everything considered defamatory is really a matter of opinion... I know this has been brought up and discussed before, I guess I just still don't understand. since mignini was found guilty, does he really even have an argument now?

____________________________________________________

spin-offs from the knox/Sollecito case - there's amanda's parents and raphaelle's dad and sister which makes four, their lawyers + joe cottenwood and West Seattle Herald (eight) ... the three from Oggi and since ilGiornale trial is starting soon, (and if it's like Oggi) that means three more = 14
...missing anyone?

 

[dgfred]

A couple of pages back, it was asked which key questions would we, as individuals like to have an answer if possible in this case - mine are:

How is it, that Amanda & Rafaele were able to do a selective clean-up - leave RG's DNA all over MK's room/body but totally obliterate their own aside from the controversial bra clasp and the MK/AK mixed blood DNA in the bathroom (could there be a rather mundane explanation for that?)

How is it, that by the very same controversial DNA testing that found a miniscule amount of MK's DNA on the alleged murder weapon (which wasn't even blood DNA, whatever it was - let's not forget that the DNA result had to be amplified many times to get a satisfactory result) was not compatible with the wounds - and also, bore NO traces of bleach or being scrubbed - and the fact that IF it WAS the murder weapon, why would it not have been disposed of?! this still makes no sense to me.

How did the computer "expert" manage to "fry" all three hard drives of the computers of Raf, Amanda & Meredith..I mean one is bad enough, incompetent, BUT all three?! Amanda's parents offered, at their own expense to have Amanda's harddrive examined by a USA expert at Toshiba who might have been able to recover the destroyed data - the judge refused! this could have been instrumental in proving their Amanda & Meredith were not enemies as per photographs etc;

When RG fled to Germany, he had a skype conversation with a friend back in Italy...the friend must have told RG that AK & RS were suspects and Rudy said, in no uncertain terms that AK was NOT there. He was completely unaware that the conversation was being recorded. Of course, his story has now changed, and he cannot deny he was there due to the evidence yet he changes his story frequently, sometimes involving the other two and variations thereof. Hence his sentence has been slashed. Hmmm...

When Patrick says he was abused physically and verbally by the police, everyone believes him, yet when AK says same, it's a lie..don't see him being slapped with a defamation suit.

There's absolutely NO MOTIVE whatsoever for AK & RS to kill MK. They had only known each other (AK & RS) for less than two weeks. You don't go from studious industrious college kids to sex crazed psychotic assassins in that short period of time. The fact they like to smoke dope and Amanda liked to flirt with guys/have sex on trains/kept a sex toy had NO bearing or relevance at all - at her age I was a little wild myself and I often reflect that if I was 20 or so years younger again and in a foreign country and caught up in a similar scenario the press would have had a field day unearthing my exploits!

I could go on and on...not to mention the dodgy "witnesses" that Mignini came up with (which were laughable quite frankly)

Well you answer (somewhat) and give your opinion to your own questions, but I will try to answer or refute.

When you ask about cleanup of only their material in the room one would need to know about what their part in the actual murder was. If say they only held MK, how much of their 'stuff' would have been around the room anyway? Did they only hold, only stab once or twice, or what?

The double dna knife WAS compatible with the major wound in the neck. With obvious markings of cleaning (scrub) with something abrasive. Possibly RS did not want his maid to notice a missing knife, or could have been his 'knife' fetish kicking in and didn't want to get rid of it (momento?).

Even though being friends really has nothing to do with the murder... pictures would not have helped in that regard anyway imo. It was the other room mates and MK's friends that disputed the 'friends' part and problems MK was having with AK's actions... pictures would not have changed that testimony.

RG's sentence was not slashed because of testimony. His sentence was reduced due to the fast track trial he asked for and mitigating circumstances such as young age, no past record, etc.

Well imo the police did not consider AK a murder when she was first being questioned as a 'witness', but when she accused PL the police thought he was a brutal murderer... the questions and interrogation should have been tough imo. I don't think PL received anything for his 'physical' interrogation... he received $ because of being held in jail for 2 weeks (because an eyewitness placed him at the scene [twice]).

You are right about no real motive for AK and RS to kill MK... but the evidence made them guilty, not the reason. Motive wasn't necessary anyway to prove guilt.

What would be their motives for continually lying to the police? Why the conflicting alibi(s) when their first 'stories' were proven to be incorrect?
When cell phone pings showed RS was not at home as he claimed... his story changed. When AK hears RS story changed... her's changed. How odd, hmm......

The information the witnesses Kom(sp) knew before released by police (the broken down car) was proof that he was indeed in the area. He also mentioned two knives which wasn't known by the public either. Dodgy or not, the judge thought he was a reliable witness.

 

[Isabella]

I can't help wondering, is this standard procedure in Italy to charge anyone who spoke against a prosecution case with defamation? Just wondering.

To be honest i have no idea. But i think anyone has the right not to be slandered. I think the case that shocked me in that respect was Virgie Arthur v the bloggers. I personally dont see anything wrong with criticising a prosecution but i do think the lengths some have gone to where Migini is concerned is disgusting and when people are claiming that the Italian police are abusing people to get confesssions WITHOUT any proof then i think the Italians are right to sue to stop this vendetta.

 

[Isabella]

How did the computer "expert" manage to "fry" all three hard drives of the computers of Raf, Amanda & Meredith..I mean one is bad enough, incompetent, BUT all three?! Amanda's parents offered, at their own expense to have Amanda's harddrive examined by a USA expert at Toshiba who might have been able to recover the destroyed data - the judge refused! this could have been instrumental in proving their Amanda & Meredith were not enemies as per photographs etc;

.

Funny thing is when told the computer showed he wasnt doing as he claimed RAF changed his story. Why if he was telling the truth? I am sorry but for me he dropped himself in it every time

 

[Tizzle]

To be honest i have no idea. But i think anyone has the right not to be slandered. I think the case that shocked me in that respect was Virgie Arthur v the bloggers. I personally dont see anything wrong with criticising a prosecution but i do think the lengths some have gone to where Migini is concerned is disgusting and when people are claiming that the Italian police are abusing people to get confesssions WITHOUT any proof then i think the Italians are right to sue to stop this vendetta.

{BBM}

Funny thing is when told the computer showed he wasnt doing as he claimed RAF changed his story. Why if he was telling the truth? I am sorry but for me he dropped himself in it every time

Well, since you claim that she hasn't any proof that she was hit, there's also no proof that Amanda and Raf lied or changed their stories, then. 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander'. You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from the interrogation. If you want to discount one fact of the interrogation because there is no proof, then you have to discount ALL of the interrogation.

It is absolutely ridiculous for Mignini to charge any of these people with defamation, including Amanda and her parents. It is an obvious attempt to distract from the TRUE facts of this case. How can you not see that?

I hope all the people that Mignini has defamed or lied about sues the pants off of him. I hope defamation suits start pouring in on him from every direction. He deserves it! If it doesn't start happening soon, I will be surprised.

 

[miley]

links for my earlier post #283...

here is the link referring to what Nick Pisa said about the appeal trial
http://www.news-roma.com/archivio/4423/processo-meredith-maxi-sconto-in-appello-a-rudy-guede/

my mistake, I gave the wrong link above referring to what Nick Pisa said about the appeal.

*correct link below plus what Pisa said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
dec. 12, 2009
Sabina Castelfranco (voa news)in Perugia:

Nick Pisa is a British tabloid journalist who has been covering the story since Kercher's dead body was found. "In general I think people were expecting this verdict. It was certainly one that has been anticipated by both the Italian media and the Italian public. I think the only people who were surprised were perhaps the Anglo-Saxon press because in the face of the evidence that was presented in court it's very, very unlikely that this case would have been found guilty in another court," he says.

Nick Pisa agrees that the appeal could make the difference for Knox. "It does appear that the evidence that convicted her was very, very flimsy and I think once they examine this DNA evidence again - let's remember there was the request for an independent review that was ruled out by the judge. And I think that's probably one of the first things that a new judge will ask for when he comes to review this case," he says.
http://www1.voanews.com/english/new...ans-for-Appeal-in-Italian-Court-79140147.html​

 

[missyjane77]

Nick Pisa agrees that the appeal could make the difference for Knox. "It does appear that the evidence that convicted her was very, very flimsy and I think once they examine this DNA evidence again - let's remember there was the request for an independent review that was ruled out by the judge. And I think that's probably one of the first things that a new judge will ask for when he comes to review this case," he says.
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news...-79140147.html

If the evidence still convicts them, then I'd go out on a limb and say there is something we haven't seen.

Do we know that a new judge will review this case? I hope he's unbiased and will look at it with fresh eyes.

 

[Tizzle]

Yes there is proof Raf changed his story...

Where's the proof that Raf changed his story, BESIDES what Mignini says, BESIDES what you have heard. Where are the transcripts and recordings and such? Where is it?

In your opinion it may be ridiculous but i find it ridiculous that someone would think its just fine for a convicted murderer to claim she was beaten by the Italian Police force.. a move that around the world potentially makes them look like women beaters and they are supposed to just take it. They have there honour and reputation to upheld so its obvious why they are suing for defamation.

I DO agree though..tho its an obvious attempt to distract from the true facts of this case. By that i mean the lies of Amanda and the fact that she helped to murder Meredith Kercher.

In my opinion, yes, AND in the opinion of MANY others.

Amanda and Raf aren't considered convicted murderers, yet. At least, not until the appeals are over. Just FYI. And yes, I think it is just fine for a woman to claim she was hit by the police when she has been hit by the police. Are you suggesting that a woman that has been hit by the police shouldn't say anything in order to protect LE's worldwide reputation? I certainly hope not.

What is ridiculous is Mignini suing ANYONE for statements they made during testimony in a court of law. And even more ridiculous is people that would defend this kind of abuse of power (Mignini's favorite pastime) or people that fail to even comprehend that this is, in fact, what is happening.

Amanda Knox is innocent and being held hostage in an Italian prison.

Raffaele Sollecito is innocent and being held hostage in an Italian prison.

Rudy Guede and Giuliano Mignini are NOT innocent. Rudy is where he should be, for now. Mignini is not where he should be.

No amount of mudslinging will ever change these facts as I, and numerous others, see them. Amanda and Raf are as innocent as two people can be.

All this hatred for Migini and yet HE wasnt the one who killed someone. Weird.

Mignini hasn't literally killed anyone, that we know of, true. But figuratively speaking he has murdered the young lives of two innocent people. That is where my dislike for him comes from. He is notorious for trying to steal lives with his overactive imagination, smoke and mirrors. Seriously, I think Mignini has gone bat$#!t crazy and he's not ever comin' back!

I agree, Mignini IS weird.

 

[dgfred]

Neither AK nor RS are innocent. Except for the evidence and the repeated lies they would be though. They will still be right where they are now after appeals are done. Funny you place so much blame on Mignini... but what about the other prosecutor for the case and the over 13 judges that had to review the evidence before bringing them to trial?

 

[Monzoo]

Just an FYI for anyone interested in this case --

Tuesday's Oprah Show will focus on Amanda Knox. (Since the guests are Amanda's family, I presume it will be a pro-innocence.)

 

[Salem]

Hey Guys - the rule is: Attack the post, not the poster. There are several posts in this thread that do not follow the rule that I will be taking another look at and possibly deleting.

I understand this is a hot topic with strong feelings on both sides BUT you must follow the rule.

Thanks for understanding,

Salem