Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #3

[hollyblue]

BBM
You reference "a fishing boat with a max mph of what 30-40 mph....yet they were right behind her and on her tail when she was approaching US soil? Given the "chase" would have been over a few miles at least, how in the world did they manage to stay so close to her.?"


Was the 30-40 miles given as fact in any statement or article that you could provide a link for please because I have a "fishing boat" & have gone 72mph in it.

While I'm sure that many "fishing boats" that we use as recreational vehicles do go faster..do you really think the boats they were using were anything like you have? If you noticed, I was somewhat questioning what their speed may have been in using the word "what". But, there was a mention of the fishing boats and even a pic that someone posted on the first thread, I believe, and if I can find it I'll re-post. Although, TH has said herself their skis could easily outrun them...even when they were planning what to do if approached. Given the amount of time to cover a few miles chase....and the jet skiers knowing they could and did outrun them, I don't think any of their boats could do close to 70 mph nor keep up to become a near tail on them. Curious tho...why would a local commercial fishing boat need the capacity to go 70+?

Going to find the post....

 

[hollyblue]

And who is telling Tiffany that Mexico is not accepting US help in the drug war? Even the right-wing Washington Times reports otherwise:

The U.S. military is working with Mexico's military and police forces to provide training and equipment, and to help set up an intelligence center, he said.

Adm. Winnefeld said the U.S., rather than simply providing training, is working toward "shared experience, because we really are co-equal partners in this thing."

"Our relationship is on a very good trajectory, military to military," he said, noting meetings last month in Mexico with senior military and defense leaders.

In particular, the Mexicans have asked for Northcom's help in setting up a joint intelligence center, like those formed by the U.S. military in Europe and Asia.

"They'd like to know how we put together fusion cells like we have done overseas that are able to bring all forms of intelligence together and connect it with operations so that they can be much more effective and efficient in the way they take on the cartels," Adm. Winnefeld said.

Source: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/5/northcoms-new-leader-boosts-focus-on-mexico/

BBM

Very good point and not to mention the $ given to them...and the jobs, but just a little skeptical questioning here....sorta OT...so where's Bin Laden? Sorry, I love political humor.

 

[WellDone]

While I'm sure that many "fishing boats" that we use as recreational vehicles do go faster..do you really think the boats they were using were anything like you have? If you noticed, I was somewhat questioning what their speed may have been in using the word "what". But, there was a mention of the fishing boats and even a pic that someone posted on the first thread, I believe, and if I can find it I'll re-post. Although, TH has said herself their skis could easily outrun them...even when they were planning what to do if approached. Given the amount of time to cover a few miles chase....and the jet skiers knowing they could and did outrun them, I don't think any of their boats could do close to 70 mph nor keep up to become a near tail on them. Curious tho...why would a local commercial fishing boat need the capacity to go 70+?

Going to find the post....

BBM

Yes I do believe the cartel, drug dealers, gangs, criminals, pirates - whatever title fits bets do in fact have performance boats... perhaps not all, but certainly some if not most - imo.... just as they have high performance weapons.... vehicles, etc.

I believe the jet skis have the advantage of maneuveability over any boats based on their size, etc. jmo

Fishing boats having the access to higher speeds is based on the motor size...

*I THINK tournament fishing boats have a max motor size of 225 or 250 - I don't recall which we have, but it is the max size allowed to fish tournaments, we just discussed this last month.... however there are even bigger sized motors than that available... I believe to 300 + & in our discussion when the motor size rule was implemented it affected boaters who had to go down to the smaller sized motors*

My husbands "in flight" right now... but when he lands tomorrow I will ask him the specifics because I just know the basics & am not well versed in the specifics... he, however, could give you many more details than you'd ever care to know.... LOL

*** Ok, we have 250 horsepower & that is the max allowed also for fishing tournaments... they do make smaller..... & I'm still verifying for the larger sizes..... next time I will pay better attention when hubby is talking fishing/boating...lol

300's are outlawed... I'm not sure if that is just for tourneys or in general...still checking lol

Must be just outlawed for tournaments cuz I found a listing for up to 350 for sale.... don't know if that's the biggest though.....

 

[Tricia]

I have a question about this and I am posting it here rather than contacting you privately because I feel other posters to this thread would be interested in the answer as well.

As of today, authorities have not named Terri Horman a suspect or person of interest in Kyron's disappearance. Yet I see plenty of postings on that forum that seem to me accusations, even a poll entitled "What is your #1 indicator that Terri IS responsible for Kyron's disappearance?"

Maybe I'm just being dense here, but I don't understand the difference.

And thanks for the great site and everything you do on behalf of victims.

Respectfully,
Izzy Blanche

Thanks Izzy. You bring up good points.

Here is the deal . . . We use common sense here. Everyone knows Terri is the main suspect. The police haven't named her a suspect. They never do anymore. They never come out and say someone is a suspect.

I could get technical and not allow discussion that points the finger at Terri but then there wouldn't be a discussion.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, it's a duck.

I should have phrased my post differently but hopefully now you understand.

We are trying to avoid allowing anyone to come to Websleuths and start posting about someone who is totally innocent and whose life has been disrupted by no fault of their own because they are connected to a case. Do we always accomplish this? No. We don't. But we try.

There is nothing black and white here other than I do not allow random innocent people to be trashed.

It has become clear through the mainstream media that the Hartleys are no longer considered anything but victims in this case.

I can't tell you how to post but I can give you an example that might help you understand what I am trying to say:

Example of a post that is not allowed: "David Hartely was a drug dealer. Big time. This was a drug deal gone bad."

Not allowed. Now if you could link to something in the main stream media that officially states this then that's different.

Example of a post that would be allowed: "Has the investigators totally cleared David Hartley of any sort of connection to the Mexican Cartel or was that never even considered in the investigation."

This way you can get your question out there with a 99 percent chance of someone on Websleuths posting the answer.

I'll close with this. I need you to use your imagination.

Imagine your next door neighbor was found to be a serial killer God forbid.

You have lived next to the guy for many years and were friendly with him.

How would you feel if you came to Websleuths and found every single bit of public information people could possibly gather about you posted on Websleuths . . . how would you feel if people were coming on saying they know you and posting that they think you are weird enough to be this serial killer's partner .. . and to top if off they start posting about your family. All the information is gathered from public records so it's legal but is it right?

Other forums allow this type of thing all the time. It's wrong. Like I said we are not perfect but we do try and do the right thing by all the people involved in the cases.

Tricia

 

[scapa]

I don't think so. Here is the quote in context. It sounds like she wants to take it back from non-Christians.

"We need to go back to what our founding fathers planned for this country. They didn’t plan for it to be a separation. This country was founded on God. And we need to go back to that. All the however many millions of Americans believe in God. And very little don’t. And we need to start taking our country back. And start making it the way it was meant to be."

BBM. TH needs to re-read her Thomas Jefferson (and her 1st Amendment). To wit: "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

I'll refrain from weighing in any further on whether a crime was committed and, if so, who might have been involved. But If I were a sheriff, state governor or US President, I'd think twice before recruiting this particular poster child. The spectacle of this crusading widow hopping from channel to channel admonishing the nation on the subject of border control issues and the necessity for one country under one (Christian) God seems both bizarre and constructed -- a little like an upside-down version of Meet John Doe.

I feel for the Hartley family. How difficult and strange this must be for them, no end in sight.

best,

s

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I imagine she never expected to be in the middle of this to be honest.
I feel like she is trying to get her point across but is not trained in public speaking. I see her as a widow who had to witness her husband being shot in the head.

Maybe she's not saying the right words, making the right eye movements, or being politically correct, but how well would any of us handle this?

 

[hollyblue]

BBM

Yes I do believe the cartel, drug dealers, gangs, criminals, pirates - whatever title fits bets do in fact have performance boats... perhaps not all, but certainly some if not most - imo.... just as they have high performance weapons.... vehicles, etc.

I believe the jet skis have the advantage of maneuveability over any boats based on their size, etc. jmo

Fishing boats having the access to higher speeds is based on the motor size...

*I THINK tournament fishing boats have a max motor size of 225 or 250 - I don't recall which we have, but it is the max size allowed to fish tournaments, we just discussed this last month.... however there are even bigger sized motors than that available... I believe to 300 + & in our discussion when the motor size rule was implemented it affected boaters who had to go down to the smaller sized motors*

My husbands "in flight" right now... but when he lands tomorrow I will ask him the specifics because I just know the basics & am not well versed in the specifics... he, however, could give you many more details than you'd ever care to know.... LOL

*** Ok, we have 250 horsepower & that is the max allowed also for fishing tournaments... they do make smaller..... & I'm still verifying for the larger sizes..... next time I will pay better attention when hubby is talking fishing/boating...lol

300's are outlawed... I'm not sure if that is just for tourneys or in general...still checking lol

Must be just outlawed for tournaments cuz I found a listing for up to 350 for sale.... don't know if that's the biggest though.....

Thanks for your input. Your talking to someone who does not know how many mph's could be pulled from 200, 250 or 300 hp. LOL. Another ? for your hubby.

I haven't seen any reports of them having high speed boats, but it is possible. However, since the last encounters with the pirates had reports of fishing boats and at least one of the victims out running them, I really doubt these were high performance boats. Regular commerical fishing boats for robbery...the large weapons would be enough intimidation for anyone not to chase them...so no need for the speed. Sorta makes you wonder why LE hasn't posed as fisherman to catch a few, but I guess the fire power outweighs any possibility of that. ???

I'm still trying to find that pic I know was posted. I've done searches with "fishing boat, picture" and find nothing on the #1 thread, now I'll go back see if it was on #2. There was a whole section somewhere talking about boats. I got diverted by reading the posts again. Good review, tho. LOL.

 

[hollyblue]

I imagine she never expected to be in the middle of this to be honest.
I feel like she is trying to get her point across but is not trained in public speaking. I see her as a widow who had to witness her husband being shot in the head.

Maybe she's not saying the right words, making the right eye movements, or being politically correct, but how well would any of us handle this?

Personally, I'd like to see her stick with her agenda.....what was it again? Do anything and everything to bring his body home. Yeh, that's the ticket.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Personally, I'd like to see her stick with her agenda.....what was it again? Do anything and everything to bring his body home. Yeh, that's the ticket.

IIRC, its now about TH... with Sheriff Sigi by her side.. lecturing LE and the president in Colorado on "border security". moo

 

[hollyblue]

Welldone...I didn't find the post, but found this info and link:

Danger lurks for anglers who leave Texas waters

[SIZE=-1]10:13 PM CDT on Wednesday, May 26, 2010[/SIZE]

Finally, he says, always carry a cellphone programmed with emergency numbers like the local sheriff's department and TP&W's Operation Game Thief. The boats used in the robberies were described as fiberglass Mexican fishing boats with no identification numbers, powered by small outboard engines with the engine cowling removed.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/outdoors/stories/052710dnsposasser.8cbda7a.html

Here's another:
No one hurt yet

Men armed with assault rifles robbed fishermen on the Mexican side of Falcon Lake on April 30 and May 6. They traveled in the low-slung, underpowered commercial Mexican fishing boats that are familiar here. They asked for money, drugs and guns, and took what cash was available. No one was hurt.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7027260.html

 

[Kateyes]

Anything Salem posts on this forum or any forum is on direction from me.

Do not be angry at Salem. If you have an issue you can email me or PM me.

Salem works hard, doesn't get paid a dime, and is on Websleuths day and night to make sure it runs smoothly for the rest of us.

One thing you must remember about Websleuths; we do not allow accusations against innocent people unless they have been named a suspect or persons of interest.

David Hartley's wife is not a suspect in this case. Nor is there any evidence of wrongdoing on their part other than riding in Mexican waters.

Sincerely,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

Hello Tricia - thank you for having a great site like Websleuths, and thanks to Salem for assuring that TOS are followed. My previous post was in no way to express anger to Salem, and I apologize if it sounded that way. I simply am afraid that I will not put my thoughts into words that would comply with TOS, so I am just going to keep reading and see what develops. Most of all, I hope and pray for an accurate resolution and justice for the sake of David Hartley and all of his family. Just felt the need to clarify.

 

[hollyblue]

Hmmmmmmm. Read the last "comment" made by poster on this article. Sound familiar?

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2010/06/pirates-threaten-boaters-on-us-mexico-border-lake.php

 

[easttexas]

I imagine she never expected to be in the middle of this to be honest.
I feel like she is trying to get her point across but is not trained in public speaking. I see her as a widow who had to witness her husband being shot in the head.

Maybe she's not saying the right words, making the right eye movements, or being politically correct, but how well would any of us handle this?

With all due respect....I think she could decline to comment. It's too soon for her to move on and she seems to have done so so easily. So, now a few weeks later she wants to be an spokesperson for border control? If there had been tight border control then THEY would not have been able to cross like they did. Makes very little sense to me...we want control...for God's sake we can't help ourselves we need that picture....MOO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Thanks Izzy. You bring up good points.

[snipped for space]
Tricia

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Personally, I'd like to see her stick with her agenda.....what was it again? Do anything and everything to bring his body home. Yeh, that's the ticket.

And insulting the country whose assistance she needs most to accomplish that is really going to help. Not.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

It's true that, having not been in the situation of having seen my husband murdered, I don't know how I would handle myself.

I do know absolutely, positively that no matter what the circumstances, if I were going to start going on TV espousing a particular cause, I would make darn sure I had my facts straight.

 

[hollyblue]

I imagine she never expected to be in the middle of this to be honest.
I feel like she is trying to get her point across but is not trained in public speaking. I see her as a widow who had to witness her husband being shot in the head.

Maybe she's not saying the right words, making the right eye movements, or being politically correct, but how well would any of us handle this?

Knowing the difference between inscribe and describe?? Noticed it twice.
But that doesn't make her guilty of a crime or a POI. I feel embarrassed and yet sorry for her. The probable let down will not be uplifting, but she may very well glean a great perk from her contacts. That will help with taking her mind off of all her grieving.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/crime/2010/10/07/jvm.tiffany.hartley.intv.hln.html

 

[easttexas]

It's true that, having not been in the situation of having seen my husband murdered, I don't know how I would handle myself.

I do know absolutely, positively that no matter what the circumstances, if I were going to start going on TV espousing a particular cause, I would make darn sure I had my facts straight.

If you were repeating the facts...you don't have to spend time getting your facts straight...

 

[hollyblue]

It's true that, having not been in the situation of having seen my husband murdered, I don't know how I would handle myself.

I do know absolutely, positively that no matter what the circumstances, if I were going to start going on TV espousing a particular cause, I would make darn sure I had my facts straight.

You forget it's said she is being coached by politicians Izzy. :angel:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

If you were repeating the facts...you don't have to spend time getting your facts straight...

True--but I was referring to facts such as what the country was founded on (not God, but freedom of religion and separation of church and state) and whether Mexico accepts aid from the US to fight the drug war. Stuff like that.