Mexico Mexico - Jenny Chen, 26, Oaxaca, 11 April 2016 #2

[rosesfromangels]

Good points slowpoke and Lilibet. It appears Mexico has a legal system very different from the US, that can seemingly be bought by special interests or allegedly by ****s. If this is accurate, the polygraphs would be worth little.

 

[LisaWL7TR]

I wonder if JR has someone in mind to sit in as a third party?

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[Lilibet]

I wonder if JR has someone in mind to sit in as a third party?

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I was thinking he'd want either his PI or attorney to sit in, but would they be a neutral third party? Who else would JR trust? Who would LE allow, if anyone? And will the drivers or their attorneys agree? Someone asked if the police or Grupo Modelo (Corona's parent company) will administer the polygraphs. JR says he doesn't know (??) but hopes to be in Mexico by then. Hmmmmm.....maybe he wants to be the third party. No, he can't think that would be allowed! I won't be surprised if the third party issue causes delays, although if it's Grupo Modelo instead of LE, maybe not.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/660778027430578/

 

[Lilibet]

I'm very happy to see this photo of JR and Jenny posted at the top of the HFJ page. He's wearing the same brocade jacket as he did in the wedding photo I saw. Well done, JR!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/662122963962751/

Regarding the third party witness to the polygraph, someone suggests a human rights' watch group, which is an excellent suggestion. I assume they would watch out for Jenny's rights as well as the truckers'.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/660778027430578/

 

[GigTu]

I feel like I'm waiting for the next episode of a serial drama to come out. So many unexpected twists and turns.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Well, wow! I've been skim reading this saga for the last couple of days, & feeling frustrated .

Almost from the start, I've been wondering if Jenny & JR had separated (perhaps a "trial" separation, or "time out") before/when she travelled to Mexico. And whether this was instigated by Jenny with JR being reluctant, or hoping she'd change her mind... Pure speculation on my part.

However, if so, it *could* go some way to explaining why her family and JR seem to be completely estranged, & why JR isn't getting any help from the Chinese embassy - & by extension Mexican LE (if she had told her family they were separated, and the family passed this on to the Embassy, the latter might regard her parents rather than her husband as next of kin).

I have loads of questions (don't we all?!), and I don't expect answers given the mess I've seen on the HFJ page. However I'm going to throw them out here anyway:

- have any of her belongings been found (other than the infamous notebook?
- Has a description of what she was wearing when last seen, her backpack & contents ever been given?
- Do gas stations/truck stops in Mexico have cctv?
- Has JR officially notified US authorities that she's missing? I'm asking because I think that would be necessary in order to request a check on whether she's returned to the States (massive long shot, I admit), & he *might* get help and/or advice on dealing with Mexican LE.

- Is Jenny still on her 2 year conditional green card, or has she gone through removal of conditions and received her 10 yr card?
- is this the first time she's travelled alone? Or has she done solo backpacking/hitch-hiking trips before (one of the Chinese media articles appears to suggest she'd backpacked in the States before, but I'm wary about the translation)
- does anyone know if JR speaks/reads Chinese and Spanish?
- is it possible she has a bank account JR doesn't know about?

I'm glad that whoever had her Facebook password didn't have her blog one. It's also possible she has other SM accounts that JR & we are unaware of.

I have a teensy tiny bit of hope left that Jenny might have gone back to China, or perhaps the US (I'd look at NYC), however I have to admit that foul play is more likely unfortunately . If the former, I suspect her family & the embassy know & for whatever reason haven't shared with JR. If the latter, I doubt she got any distance at all from where she was last seen .

As for the HTJ page, it would be a lot simpler, & easier for everyone including the admin(s) if he/they were to clarify their "leads" etc. Heck, they could just say - for example - "the Corona truck/driver lead (or which/whatever) is confirmed. There are details we can't share as to why", etc etc....

Gosh, that was longer than I thought, sorry for the brain dump! I see some familiar "faces" here, *waves hello*

 

[Lilibet]

:seeya: Waving back! It's great to see you here sjm. It's been awhile since the HTG thread. I HAD planned to take a break, but you know how that goes.

Welcome to frustration! Yes, unfortunately JR does not know how to deliver information clearly without raising more questions.

Regarding your excellent questions, I only know the answer to one, kind of...whether US authorities have been notified. He apparently tried to work through the US embassy and a congressman, but they couldn't help because Jenny isn't a citizen. He also notified authorities in Seattle. This is all according to JR. I don't know if he received any tips for working with Mexican LE except on the FB page.

IIRC The other info you've asked about has not been revealed, or else it sifted out of my overloaded brain. I imagine JR speaks a little Chinese since he lived there for several years, but I don't think he's ever said so.

I've been under the impression that Jenny had permanent residency, but I don't understand green cards.

Well, wow! I've been skim reading this saga for the last couple of days, & feeling frustrated .

Almost from the start, I've been wondering if Jenny & JR had separated (perhaps a "trial" separation, or "time out") before/when she travelled to Mexico. And whether this was instigated by Jenny with JR being reluctant, or hoping she'd change her mind... Pure speculation on my part.

However, if so, it *could* go some way to explaining why her family and JR seem to be completely estranged, & why JR isn't getting any help from the Chinese embassy - & by extension Mexican LE (if she had told her family they were separated, and the family passed this on to the Embassy, the latter might regard her parents rather than her husband as next of kin).

I have loads of questions (don't we all?!), and I don't expect answers given the mess I've seen on the HFJ page. However I'm going to throw them out here anyway:

- have any of her belongings been found (other than the infamous notebook?
- Has a description of what she was wearing when last seen, her backpack & contents ever been given?
- Do gas stations/truck stops in Mexico have cctv?
- Has JR officially notified US authorities that she's missing? I'm asking because I think that would be necessary in order to request a check on whether she's returned to the States (massive long shot, I admit), & he *might* get help and/or advice on dealing with Mexican LE.

- Is Jenny still on her 2 year conditional green card, or has she gone through removal of conditions and received her 10 yr card?
- is this the first time she's travelled alone? Or has she done solo backpacking/hitch-hiking trips before (one of the Chinese media articles appears to suggest she'd backpacked in the States before, but I'm wary about the translation)
- does anyone know if JR speaks/reads Chinese and Spanish?
- is it possible she has a bank account JR doesn't know about?

I'm glad that whoever had her Facebook password didn't have her blog one. It's also possible she has other SM accounts that JR & we are unaware of.

I have a teensy tiny bit of hope left that Jenny might have gone back to China, or perhaps the US (I'd look at NYC), however I have to admit that foul play is more likely unfortunately . If the former, I suspect her family & the embassy know & for whatever reason haven't shared with JR. If the latter, I doubt she got any distance at all from where she was last seen .

As for the HTJ page, it would be a lot simpler, & easier for everyone including the admin(s) if he/they were to clarify their "leads" etc. Heck, they could just say - for example - "the Corona truck/driver lead (or which/whatever) is confirmed. There are details we can't share as to why", etc etc....

Gosh, that was longer than I thought, sorry for the brain dump! I see some familiar "faces" here, *waves hello*

 

[Tssiemer]

My understanding is she was on her conditional green card. JR had made this a point in his "why Jenny didn't dump me and run off" rant.


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[Sjm_qc]

:seeya: Waving back! It's great to see you here sjm. It's been awhile since the HTG thread. I HAD planned to take a break, but you know how that goes.

:rofl: !

Regarding your excellent questions, I only know the answer to one, kind of...whether US authorities have been notified. He apparently tried to work through the US embassy and a congressman, but they couldn't help because Jenny isn't a citizen. He also notified authorities in Seattle. This is all according to JR. I don't know if he received any tips for working with Mexican LE except on the FB page.

Well, the embassy & congressman are useless in this case, he was barking up the wrong tree . US LE (I hope he DID alert them) would be able to find out from CBP/DHS whether she travelled back to the States, he can't make that request directly. The State Department has some info on its website that might be helpful to him even though Jenny isn't a US citizen.

Of course, he & team may already have checked this, or have information that hasn't been made public which makes it a moot point.


IIRC The other info you've asked about has not been revealed, or else it sifted out of my overloaded brain. I imagine JR speaks a little Chinese since he lived there for several years, but I don't think he's ever said so.
That's what I thought. I wonder whether he reads & writes it, & how well he speaks Spanish too.

I've been under the impression that Jenny had permanent residency, but I don't understand green cards.

My understanding is she was on her conditional green card. JR had made this a point in his "why Jenny didn't dump me and run off" rant.

I've not seen that particular rant, probably just as well... However, even if she was still on a conditional card, she could have "dumped him & run off" without jeopardising her ability to remove conditions...

I asked about the Green Card (conditional or conditions-removed) because it could be very relevant in various scenarios. Assuming (& I shouldn't, given the dearth of facts) that Jenny got a GC through marriage (which I think took place in October 2013(?), & extrapolating from a bit of info gleaned from her Weibo account, it's just possible she had just got her "permanent" (10 year) GC before going to Mexico, OR removal of conditions was applied for & in process.

It's an important question/distinction to me because if she hadn't yet received her 10 year card, it seems odd to me to go on an out-of-country three month trip during the removal of conditions process, or very close to the deadline if she hadn't yet applied (NB: this possibility is speculation on my part using a date or two mentioned on SM).

I'm not sure if the GC stuff is significant, nor where I'm going with it right now, but it's bugging me... Sorry for rambling.

I WISH JR would elaborate on WHY he dismissed the Chinese Embassy press release out of hand.

 

[webant]

I WISH JR would elaborate on WHY he dismissed the Chinese Embassy press release out of hand.

I can't speak for JR, but I dismiss the Chinese Embassy press release for the reasons listed in post #769 of this thread (my post).

Regarding the thought of Jenny having returned to China with her family...if she had done so by flying out of Mexico, immigration would have a record of this, which LE could verify. The fact that LE is reportedly going to administer lie detector tests to the drivers leads me to believe LE has no record of Jenny having flown out of Mexico, as they wouldn't be administering those tests if they had such an exit record.

 

[Lilibet]

I can't speak for JR, but I dismiss the Chinese Embassy press release for the reasons listed in post #769 of this thread (my post).

Regarding the thought of Jenny having returned to China with her family...if she had done so by flying out of Mexico, immigration would have a record of this, which LE could verify. The fact that LE is reportedly going to administer lie detector tests to the drivers leads me to believe LE has no record of Jenny having flown out of Mexico, as they wouldn't be administering those tests if they had such an exit record.

On the last thread, Slowpoke posted JR's comment. It's pretty much what you said in post #769. Here is the link and my cranky response, plus the now-deleted comment...

JR has taken down the link to that nwasianweekly article from the Help Find page, and I also see that he commented this under that nwasianweekly news piece:
"Jonathan Reinhard says
June 11, 2016 at 6:10 am
Dear C,
The Oaxaca police put on quite a show for Jenny’s parents. How could she be traveling for almost two months without any money?? I have her bank records. These types of stories produced wild rumors with NO substance, and deviate from the true investigation that my legal and investigative team have put together. We need to focus on her last substantiated sighting, which was with the truck company with Corona logos. We are working hard on that PROVEN lead, not silly rumors."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...axaca-11-April-2016-1&p=12621274#post12621274

As I've repeatedly mentioned, JR only mentions Oaxaca LE putting on a show, when, in fact, LE in other states were also contacted during the parents' visit. Do I think Jenny was still hitchhiking at that point? Not really. But was the Chinese Embassy basing their conclusion on "wild rumors with no substance"? It's certainly possible they didn't verify witnesses, and were walking a fine line between satisfying Jenny's parents and maintaining good (trade) relations with Mexico. If so, that was cruel. So from that standpoint I do I understand JR's anger, which bothered me more at the time. But, as usual, we really know nothing.

How sad that the investigation into the "last substantiated sighting" with the Corona driver is no further along now (over four months since Jenny's disappearance) than it was on June 11 (two months after her disappearance).

 

[Lilibet]

I've not seen that particular rant, probably just as well... However, even if she was still on a conditional card, she could have "dumped him & run off" without jeopardising her ability to remove conditions...

I asked about the Green Card (conditional or conditions-removed) because it could be very relevant in various scenarios. Assuming (& I shouldn't, given the dearth of facts) that Jenny got a GC through marriage (which I think took place in October 2013(?), & extrapolating from a bit of info gleaned from her Weibo account, it's just possible she had just got her "permanent" (10 year) GC before going to Mexico, OR removal of conditions was applied for & in process.

It's an important question/distinction to me because if she hadn't yet received her 10 year card, it seems odd to me to go on an out-of-country three month trip during the removal of conditions process, or very close to the deadline if she hadn't yet applied (NB: this possibility is speculation on my part using a date or two mentioned on SM).

I'm not sure if the GC stuff is significant, nor where I'm going with it right now, but it's bugging me... Sorry for rambling.

I WISH JR would elaborate on WHY he dismissed the Chinese Embassy press release out of hand.

BBM

Here is an early article saying that Jenny had permanent residency and was working toward citizenship. I don't know how that relates to a permanent green card. I assumed it was the same thing. This information, as does all information, comes from JR, not LE.

http://komonews.com/news/local/seat...oes-missing-during-backpacking-trip-to-mexico

Regarding why JR dismissed the Chinese Embassy press release, it seems that lack money withdrawals was his main reason, since he has her bank records. I suspect that by that time he knew that she had been looking for an ATM, but we didn't hear about that until much later. So that kind of elaboration would have been helpful at the time for those on the HFJ and pages.

Of course, she could have had a secret account that he didn't know about, but by now I doubt that was the case.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I feel like I'm waiting for the next episode of a serial drama to come out. So many unexpected twists and turns.

Twists and turns, but then you think back and realize every episode is the same.

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[Sjm_qc]

BBM

Here is an early article saying that Jenny had permanent residency and was working toward citizenship. I don't know how that relates to a permanent green card. I assumed it was the same thing. This information, as does all information, comes from JR, not LE.

http://komonews.com/news/local/seat...oes-missing-during-backpacking-trip-to-mexico.

Thank you Lilibet. One is classed as a permanent resident as soon as one gets a green card, even though the first card - if acquired through marriage - is conditional for 2 years. I don't think it's particularly important in Jenny's case now, sadly, probably just one of many niggly bits of information that don't make sense (to me), but which probably would make sense if JR & CN were better at explaining/giving info.

I'm intrigued by the polygraph story & await an update with interest. I find it odd that JR says (unless I've missed an update) he doesn't know whether the polygraph will be administered by LE or Corona! Why on earth would it be anyone other than LE?

 

[GigTu]

Mexican LE isn't performing polygraphs, didn't report on Corona "logos", and has no interest in resolving Jenny's disappearance. JMO

P.S. Corona logos could be any pickup with a bumper sticker.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Mexican LE isn't performing polygraphs, didn't report on Corona "logos", and has no interest in resolving Jenny's disappearance. JMO

P.S. Corona logos could be any pickup with a bumper sticker.

BBM: my thoughts tend to agree with yours on this...

It's a shame that the only (sparse & incomplete) info we have had from the beginning comes from/is filtered through JR - not the best communicator I've seen . Even the relatively few media reports have never quoted LE directly (or have they & I missed it? - my Spanish isn't brilliant & it could have got lost in translation; I don't read Chinese ).

There were, early on, reports that the Chinese community in Mexico had contributed/would contribute to the search effort. I wonder what happened to that initiative? Do any of the flyers have Jenny's birth name in Roman alphabet AND Chinese characters on them?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Mexican LE isn't performing polygraphs, didn't report on Corona "logos", and has no interest in resolving Jenny's disappearance. JMO

P.S. Corona logos could be any pickup with a bumper sticker.

I agree that the authorities would not want to speculate on a crime like this as it would hurt tourism, and inflame a major and powerful company.
My own speculation remains the same. I believe she did hitchhike a ride, and most likely passed over within an hour of getting in the vehicle. I also believe her remains were left somewhere within a mile or so of where she was picked up; not far.

However, there still remains the tiniest chance that she did "run off" and will surface somewhere. Highly, highly unlikely, but wouldn't that be a great outcome! The only reason I hold on to this possibility is that it does seem (based on the little info I have read), that the missing person in question was suffering from unclear thinking.

 

[Lilibet]

Thank you Lilibet. One is classed as a permanent resident as soon as one gets a green card, even though the first card - if acquired through marriage - is conditional for 2 years. I don't think it's particularly important in Jenny's case now, sadly, probably just one of many niggly bits of information that don't make sense (to me), but which probably would make sense if JR & CN were better at explaining/giving info.

I'm intrigued by the polygraph story & await an update with interest. I find it odd that JR says (unless I've missed an update) he doesn't know whether the polygraph will be administered by LE or Corona! Why on earth would it be anyone other than LE?

Thanks for the green card info. It's confusing.

So far, JR's answer stands, when asked if the polygraph would be administered by LE or Corona. It's very odd, especially since the driver was not an employee of Corona, but a contractor. Some employers in the U.S. administer polygraphs to prospective employees (per my googling) but I can't imagine a beer company in Mexico doing it. Of course the driver might hope it's Corona and not LE!! But either way, I'll be very surprised if it happens.

 

[ninij9]

Gee, I've been to Mexico enough to form the opinion that JR is not demanding anything. That if he was making demands for polys, interviews and police intervention he might have disappeared himself by now. I'm very skeptical. I believe his trips are nothing more than showboating. I'm not sold on the idea of his complicity, but have already bought the notion of his naivety.

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[Lilibet]

BBM: my thoughts tend to agree with yours on this...

It's a shame that the only (sparse & incomplete) info we have had from the beginning comes from/is filtered through JR - not the best communicator I've seen . Even the relatively few media reports have never quoted LE directly (or have they & I missed it? - my Spanish isn't brilliant & it could have got lost in translation; I don't read Chinese ).

There were, early on, reports that the Chinese community in Mexico had contributed/would contribute to the search effort. I wonder what happened to that initiative? Do any of the flyers have Jenny's birth name in Roman alphabet AND Chinese characters on them?

If you've missed direct quotes by LE, so have I, but I do remember something very, very early when Jenny was first missing. We need a media thread and I'm too lazy/busy to start it! But there has been nothing of substance about the progress of the investigation or about Corona.

I don't recall seeing any flyers with Jenny's name in Chinese characters. Perhaps it was assumed that any Chinese living in Mexico would speak Spanish. I don't know how involved the Chinese community in Mexico actually got. Early on, I remember reading comments by Chinese hoping for her safety despite her disparaging remarks about China. I'm not sure if that became a factor in their involvement or lack thereof.