Mexico Mexico - Jenny Chen, 26, Oaxaca, 11 April 2016 #2

[Lilibet]

I agree that the authorities would not want to speculate on a crime like this as it would hurt tourism, and inflame a major and powerful company.
My own speculation remains the same. I believe she did hitchhike a ride, and most likely passed over within an hour of getting in the vehicle. I also believe her remains were left somewhere within a mile or so of where she was picked up; not far.

However, there still remains the tiniest chance that she did "run off" and will surface somewhere. Highly, highly unlikely, but wouldn't that be a great outcome! The only reason I hold on to this possibility is that it does seem (based on the little info I have read), that the missing person in question was suffering from unclear thinking.

I agree with the foul play nearby scenario, but also with the impression that Jenny was not thinking clearly. It's remotely possible she's hiding out, although one of her last blog posts said she was hitching to Cancun. Anyone on the Hannah Thomas-Garner thread, like sjm_qc or Dexter, knows that hiding out is certainly possible. Another teen in TX stayed hidden even longer than Hannah's 3ish months. The other "she's alive!" scenario could be trafficking. That's what JR suspected at the beginning. The Corona driver could perhaps be complicit in this. A little extra money....

 

[Lilibet]

Gee, I've been to Mexico enough to form the opinion that JR is not demanding anything. That if he was making demands for polys, interviews and police intervention he might have disappeared himself by now. I'm very skeptical. I believe his trips are nothing more than showboating. I'm not sold on the idea of his complicity, but have already bought the notion of his naivety.

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I'm sure you're right that JR isn't demanding anything. I keep hoping that it's his PI or highly placed Mexican attorney who are doing the demanding. Since nothing of substance has happened since he hired the attorney Moreno, I doubt he is throwing his weight around. He did a couple of interviews that provided information we didn't know (and could have known by then) and that's all we know about. Why he would get involved with this case is beyond me. I've always wondered who enlisted his aid.

JR mentioned recently that he was hiring PI's from outside of Mexico to take a fresh look at the case, but he hasn't said anything since then.

 

[webant]

On the last thread, Slowpoke posted JR's comment. It's pretty much what you said in post #769. Here is the link and my cranky response, plus the now-deleted comment...

JR has taken down the link to that nwasianweekly article from the Help Find page, and I also see that he commented this under that nwasianweekly news piece:
"Jonathan Reinhard says
June 11, 2016 at 6:10 am
Dear C,
The Oaxaca police put on quite a show for Jenny’s parents. How could she be traveling for almost two months without any money?? I have her bank records. These types of stories produced wild rumors with NO substance, and deviate from the true investigation that my legal and investigative team have put together. We need to focus on her last substantiated sighting, which was with the truck company with Corona logos. We are working hard on that PROVEN lead, not silly rumors."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...axaca-11-April-2016-1&p=12621274#post12621274

As I've repeatedly mentioned, JR only mentions Oaxaca LE putting on a show, when, in fact, LE in other states were also contacted during the parents' visit. Do I think Jenny was still hitchhiking at that point? Not really. But was the Chinese Embassy basing their conclusion on "wild rumors with no substance"? It's certainly possible they didn't verify witnesses, and were walking a fine line between satisfying Jenny's parents and maintaining good (trade) relations with Mexico. If so, that was cruel. So from that standpoint I do I understand JR's anger, which bothered me more at the time. But, as usual, we really know nothing.

How sad that the investigation into the "last substantiated sighting" with the Corona driver is no further along now (over four months since Jenny's disappearance) than it was on June 11 (two months after her disappearance).

I think the Chinese Embassy was just reporting what they had been told by Mexican LE, not necessarily subscribing to what LE had told them, and in dismissing their press release I didn't mean to seem as if I was finding fault with the embassy.

It could be that we are seeing a struggle between good and bad within Mexican LE in this case. This wouldn't be unique to Mexico; the Whitey Bulger case in the US comes to mind, where good LE eventually discovered the bad and were able to prevail.

 

[Lilibet]

I think the Chinese Embassy was just reporting what they had been told by Mexican LE, not necessarily subscribing to what LE had told them, and I didn't mean to seem as if I was finding fault with the embassy.

It could be that we are seeing a struggle between good and bad within Mexican LE in this case. This wouldn't be unique to Mexico; the Whitey Bulger case in the US comes to mind, where good LE eventually discovered the bad and were able to prevail.

I didn't think your were finding fault with the Chinese Embassy at all. I was just ruminating about possibilities for their accepting the "still hitchhiking" story. I doubt the Chinese Embassy was in cahoots to protect its interests or has a lot of power to get answers. They were facilitators for Jenny's family, and it's quite possible that the Embassy was hoodwinked in a struggle between good cops and bad cops in this case. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Sjm_qc]

If you've missed direct quotes by LE, so have I, but I do remember something very, very early when Jenny was first missing. We need a media thread and I'm too lazy/busy to start it! But there has been nothing of substance about the progress of the investigation or about Corona.

I don't recall seeing any flyers with Jenny's name in Chinese characters. Perhaps it was assumed that any Chinese living in Mexico would speak Spanish. I don't know how involved the Chinese community in Mexico actually got. Early on, I remember reading comments by Chinese hoping for her safety despite her disparaging remarks about China. I'm not sure if that became a factor in their involvement or lack thereof.

I asked about this because she essentially has 2 names: Jenny Chen, & Chen Qun Dan (I'd copy paste the Chinese characters but WS &/or my phone won't let me ). It's very common for Chinese to use a Western first name without it ever being officially registered anywhere. IMO, it's important that both names should be publicised.

And now I can't find the article I read (& can't remember whether it was a translation from Spanish or Chinese) which said the Chinese community (possibly a chamber of commerce?) in Mexico was going to offer 120k pesos to the search effort . I wonder if that ever happened.

Now I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse, & please don't take this as criticism of either US or Mexican authorities, however: the name thing IS important. Imagine if immigration/travel/whatever records have been checked for "Jenny", but passport/other ID/documents shows "Qun Dan" & was recorded as such... I'm sure JR & his team have checked this out & it's a deadend, but it would be nice to *know*.

 

[GigTu]

"Attempts to obtain information about the truck got nowhere until yesterday when Reinhard was advised that Grupo Modelo would soon have the information requested. Today, he said on the Facebook page Help Find Jenny that the only information the beer company would provide was that there were seven Corona trucks operating in the area at the time. It did not release the names of the drivers."

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/missing-jenny-chen-tracked-juchitan/

Chen during her stay in Oaxaca last month

 

[GigTu]

More from the link above:
"Reinhard, who lives in Seattle, Washington, has since hired a private investigator who tracked the missing woman to the city of Juchitán in the Isthmus of Tehuantepec region of Oaxaca state. Witnesses there told the investigator that Chen was seen climbing into a Corona delivery truck, a tractor-trailer unit, at 2:00pm April 12 on highway 185.

That highway is the quickest route from Oaxaca to Cancún. However, the witnesses said the truck was traveling in the opposite direction in order to avoid a blockade by teachers. They said the driver intended to take a different route and persuaded Chen to go with him."

I would love to know who "they" witnesses is.

 

[GigTu]

An article about what happens to people who go into Mexico searching for missing relatives. No questions, just elimination (essentially). http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/searching-for-missing-costs-a-man-his-life/

"On Wednesday, three people aboard a pickup truck overtook Jiménez’ vehicle on a Tuxpan road and opened fire with assault rifles."

 

[bears10]

More from the link above:
"Reinhard, who lives in Seattle, Washington, has since hired a private investigator who tracked the missing woman to the city of Juchitán in the Isthmus of Tehuantepec region of Oaxaca state. Witnesses there told the investigator that Chen was seen climbing into a Corona delivery truck, a tractor-trailer unit, at 2:00pm April 12 on highway 185.

That highway is the quickest route from Oaxaca to Cancún. However, the witnesses said the truck was traveling in the opposite direction in order to avoid a blockade by teachers. They said the driver intended to take a different route and persuaded Chen to go with him."

I would love to know who "they" witnesses is.

I would also love to know how the witness heard the clear conversation Jenny had with the driver while climbing in his truck. The witness story has always seemed really "off" to me. Why are JR and his team putting all of their faith in this one supposed witness? To the point of refusing to even consider other scenarios. It's truly strange.

On the HFJ Facebook post about the lie detector tests, JR said something along the lines of LE administering the tests (paraphrasing). Then he replied to the commenter and said he didn't know who was giving the test. I am so lost. How does he not know? That seems like a pretty important detail.

 

[GigTu]

http://nwasianweekly.com/2016/06/hu...-of-seattle-was-last-seen-in-april-in-oaxaca/

"The (Mexican PI) investigator tracked Chen’s April 11 route from Oaxaca City, to Juchitan, approximately 6 hours away. He located the family she stayed with that night. That investigator discovered that the next day, on April 12, Chen tried to catch a ride from Juchitan toward Cancun from passing vehicles on highway 185. About 2 p.m. that same afternoon, eyewitnesses saw the driver of a Corona beer truck stop on the side of the highway, wave Chen over, and offer her a ride. Chen left with that driver and has not been seen since."

Again, I have my doubts about the Mexican PI's truthfulness. If the eyewitness was standing on the side of the highway where the truck pulled over and actually heard the conversation, I might have less doubt. My gut feels this PI just said "whatever" to get his payment from JR, not knowing about the inquiring minds of the Webslueths community. This seems such an easy accusation to make. And my opinion that it's bogus is validated by the fact that there is zero evidence and no driver information has been revealed, not even to dear JR or the American PI he hired later.

 

[GigTu]

I would also love to know how the witness heard the clear conversation Jenny had with the driver while climbing in his truck. The witness story has always seemed really "off" to me. Why are JR and his team putting all of their faith in this one supposed witness? To the point of refusing to even consider other scenarios. It's truly strange.

On the HFJ Facebook post about the lie detector tests, JR said something along the lines of LE administering the tests (paraphrasing). Then he replied to the commenter and said he didn't know who was giving the test. I am so lost. How does he not know? That seems like a pretty important detail.

IMO - JR knows what he is being told. If I were standing in his shoes, I'd be grasping at straws too, and holding on to them with all my might. The second JR stops believing what he hears is the second he loses hope in ever finding Jenny. That day is coming, it just isn't here yet.

 

[GigTu]

"Reinhard has struggled to get official aid in the search for Jenny. Anyone who has had a spouse, child, or sibling go missing abroad can tell you that the media are the tail that wags the government dog. Local authorities lack interest and resources to do much for a foreign family. The U.S. State Department — despite its boilerplate pronouncements that “the safety of our citizens is our highest priority” — simply and sincerely wishes we would disappear as suddenly and completely as our family members."

http://nwasianweekly.com/2016/07/commentary-jenny-chens-disappearance-and-the-medias-hierarchy-of-empathy/

 

[rosesfromangels]

In all fairness to our state department, they don't have much to work with in this case. Their function is to get citizens out safely if there is some sort of uprising etc. Putting oneself at high risk and then disappearing does not fall under the charter of the state department. I can stand corrected on this, but it is my understanding. As individuals, it is our responsibility to act intelligently and take personal responsibility. Jenny did not. At all. Her judgement seemed to be impaired.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

In all fairness to our state department, they don't have much to work with in this case. Their function is to get citizens out safely if there is some sort of uprising etc. Putting oneself at high risk and then disappearing does not fall under the charter of the state department. I can stand corrected on this, but it is my understanding. As individuals, it is our responsibility to act intelligently and take personal responsibility. Jenny did not. At all. Her judgement seemed to be impaired.

BBM key word right there: citizen. Jenny was not a citizen and the State Department clearly has no responsibility for non-citizens.

Regarding the whole Corona thing, what always bothered me is that it was so specific. These witnesses were found a month after she disappeared, yet they were apparently able to remember the date, Jenny (who these people only knew for a day or so), that the time was around 2, that she left in a truck, that it was a Corona truck, the conversation she had with the driver, and what the driver looked like, etc.

I can barely remember who I talked to at work yesterday, let alone someone I met briefly a month ago. And to provide a description of a person that someone else interacted with and I never even spoke to... I'm very skeptical.

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[rosesfromangels]

BBM key word right there: citizen. Jenny was not a citizen and the State Department clearly has no responsibility for non-citizens.

Regarding the whole Corona thing, what always bothered me is that it was so specific. These witnesses were found a month after she disappeared, yet they were apparently able to remember the date, Jenny (who these people only knew for a day or so), that the time was around 2, that she left in a truck, that it was a Corona truck, the conversation she had with the driver, and what the driver looked like, etc.

I can barely remember who I talked to at work yesterday, let alone someone I met briefly a month ago. And to provide a description of a person that someone else interacted with and I never even spoke to... I'm very skeptical.

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Except that it was a memorable day, (the strikes), and she probably stood out due to her ethnicity, and perhaps odd behavior.
I don't think the witnesses would have made claims against the powerful Corona brand unless they were truly concerned and trying to help.
At some level, they have put themselves at risk I would think?

 

[DexterMorgan]

Okay. Great job folks. I just got a new phone and the Websleuths site is back in working mode for me.

The last 4 months was awful trying to navigate the site on my other phone.

Anyways, I'm with you folks. The polygraph talk is B.S.

Jmo. We have been searching for an arrest of a ghost driver for 4 months now.

So I think the polygraph will not happen. And Jr can forget about suing Corona.

I'm just surprised that Jenny's brother isn't saying anything on Weibo or Facebook or whatever. Or maybe he is. I'dk.

 

[Lilibet]

http://nwasianweekly.com/2016/06/hu...-of-seattle-was-last-seen-in-april-in-oaxaca/

"The (Mexican PI) investigator tracked Chen’s April 11 route from Oaxaca City, to Juchitan, approximately 6 hours away. He located the family she stayed with that night. That investigator discovered that the next day, on April 12, Chen tried to catch a ride from Juchitan toward Cancun from passing vehicles on highway 185. About 2 p.m. that same afternoon, eyewitnesses saw the driver of a Corona beer truck stop on the side of the highway, wave Chen over, and offer her a ride. Chen left with that driver and has not been seen since."

Again, I have my doubts about the Mexican PI's truthfulness. If the eyewitness was standing on the side of the highway where the truck pulled over and actually heard the conversation, I might have less doubt. My gut feels this PI just said "whatever" to get his payment from JR, not knowing about the inquiring minds of the Webslueths community. This seems such an easy accusation to make. And my opinion that it's bogus is validated by the fact that there is zero evidence and no driver information has been revealed, not even to dear JR or the American PI he hired later.

Using your post to get the timeline straight. I want to clarify that the information we received a few days later than this article through the attorney Moreno's radio interview indicates that Jenny spent the night in a truck stop and was desperate to find an ATM machine with money in it. The article makes it sound like she was picked by the driver in Juchitan, but it was further north near the turnoff to Lagunas. JR posted a photo on his own FB page showing him standing at the spot where Jenny was last seen getting on the truck and it matches Google streetview of the area across from the Pemex where she spent the night, per witnesses. I don't know if these are the same witnesses who supposedly heard the conversation and saw her get on the truck that have been verified by LE, according to JR (never according to LE).

Here is the link to my earlier post in which slowpoke and I attempted to sort out various possible timelines, while I banged my head against the wall. I think it reflects the latest information that we have been told. But there is much contradiction. I do think the nwasianweekly article is mistaken or was going by what JR told them at the time. But the information about spending the night in the truck stop would have been available by then, so I'm not sure why there is this muddle.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...axaca-11-April-2016-2&p=12719248#post12719248

 

[rosesfromangels]

Does anyone have any more info on this assertion that she stayed overnight at a Pemex station? Where the heck did she sleep? There is nowhere at a Pemex to sleep. I really am SMH. This is the weirdest case!

 

[Lilibet]

Except that it was a memorable day, (the strikes), and she probably stood out due to her ethnicity, and perhaps odd behavior.
I don't think the witnesses would have made claims against the powerful Corona brand unless they were truly concerned and trying to help.
At some level, they have put themselves at risk I would think?

Although Jenny catching a ride on the Corona truck was well before THE strikes (which were so violent), it was probably memorable in that area that teachers were blocking the highway heading north. I've never found independent verification of that, but I'm not surprised because strikes are so commonplace. And I do agree that Jenny would stand out. The spot where Jenny was picked up appears to be in front of some kind of "business" like a food stand, so perhaps the witness was right there.

The only reason the witness would make false claims against Corona IMO is if there was some kind of grudge toward the company or particular driver OR the witness is the one who harmed Jenny and is diverting attention onto the driver, successfully, so far. I don't think this is the case, however. Although we only know from JR that LE and a prosecutor have verified the witnesses somehow, I'm going to believe that this is what JR has been told and is likely true. It gets waaay to complicated and conspiratorial to think otherwise. Occam's Razor and all that.

Given JR's communication style, I suspect that there is much corroborating evidence he has not revealed, and he probably has good reason. Although I thought he was too quickly narrowing the investigation to the Corona drivers when the information was first revealed in May, I think he must have good reason (aside from desperation) to cling to it so tenaciously for over three months. At least I sincerely hope so. JMO

 

[Sjm_qc]

Does anyone have any more info on this assertion that she stayed overnight at a Pemex station? Where the heck did she sleep? There is nowhere at a Pemex to sleep. I really am SMH. This is the weirdest case!

I've hitchhiked, and slept, and spent nights in some weird & wonderful & frankly scary places (not Mexico) over the years.

It is possible that "slept" in this case might = "spent the night"/"was seen overnight" in/at/around the Pemex station. But we can't/won't know because the info source doesn't give clear information, & deletes, rather than answering questions seeking to clarify .