MI, Grand Blanc - Mass Shooting at Mormon Church, fire, 28 Sept 2025

[Charlot123]

Yes, thanks.

Tragically his sense of humor didn't carry over to his "anti-Christ" beliefs.

His once sense of humor morphed into psychosis and rage directed at innocent people. Plus, he chose an escape from reality. A child that needs his help is hard and sad... he distracted himself with memories that should have aged. What army should have taught him, along with special skills, would be dealing with life like an adult. He learned nothing. It is on him.

 

[iamshadow21]

I wondered if maybe he was getting his terms mixed up and meant "endowment" rather than "sealing"

That's what it seems like to me. I've never had either, personally, but I know the difference just from growing up immersed in LDS doctrine and belief, and he doesn't seem to.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

She literally states "this is wild speculation on my part" prior to stating that he joined and that he married this woman.

I heard so many unproven versions of his relationship with LDS church, that I wish we got an honest, open explanation from the LE and closed it.

Gossips affect other people. Plus, there are his parents who grieve but should not be held responsible for this loser's acts. JMO: Thomas Sanford had a normal existence for his community. If anything, people helped him (think of this hospital in Texas where his child stayed for two years and everyone who donated) and he threw all kindness of family and strangers under the bus.

No one: be it LDS, a more mainstream Christian church, atheists/agnostics, his family, the community, the army, the country or the politics - no one is responsible for the decisions made by a 40-year-old man with a service behind him, a family, a child, a house, a hobby and a job.

 

[GumshoeX]

i’m not very knowledgeable about the LDS church (except that i know they are very good at teaching languages to their missionaries!), are there specific groups that have issues with their beliefs? is it a common thing for conspiracy thinkers to say they are “the antichrist”? do other christian churches have issues with the LDS church? (trying to understand more of the context and whether this is one random man or some kind of movement, of course this is all horrible no matter what )

I’m an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and happy to answer any questions. At 19, I left home to serve a two-year mission in Iowa (2005–2007), which was especially meaningful since the Midwest has so much church history.

Unfortunately, opposition to our faith has existed since the early 1800s. Church members were driven out of several states, including Missouri and Illinois, often by violent mobs. In Missouri, there was even an “extermination order” in 1838 that made it legal to drive Latter-day Saints from the state. Many early members lost homes, land, and even their lives before eventually settling in Utah.

Part of the tension came from beliefs that set us apart from other Christian churches—such as our faith in modern prophets, additional scripture like the Book of Mormon (which we believe contains ancient records from the Americas), and ongoing revelation from God. Because of those differences, some Christians don’t consider us “traditional” Christians, and critics have sometimes spread rumors or negative labels. Sadly, conspiracy theories still echo those old misunderstandings. (I once even had someone ask to see my horns because they had heard Mormons had them!)

Some individuals who investigate the Church also struggle with our standards of living. For example, we follow a health code called the Word of Wisdom, which teaches that our bodies are temples. Because of that, we avoid alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and recreational drugs, and we’re encouraged to show respect for our bodies in how we treat them—including being cautious about tattoos or excessive piercings. These standards can make us stand out, but members view them as blessings that bring health, peace, and spiritual strength.

That said, today most Latter-day Saints simply try to live their faith, serve in their communities, and follow Jesus Christ. The official symbol of our Church features Thorvaldsen’s marble statue, the Christus, as a reminder that Jesus Christ is the center of all we do. We consider Him the chief cornerstone of our faith (Ephesians 2:20). Our teachings focus on His gospel and commandments, and much of our discipleship is expressed through charitable service.

In 2024 alone, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints provided $1.45 billion in humanitarian and welfare aid, supporting 3,836 projects and contributing 6.6 million volunteer hours. These efforts provided food, clean water, health care, and disaster relief in 192 countries—blessing both members of the Church and many others in need.

As the Savior taught:
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you… By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:34–35, KJV)

 

[Charlot123]

It really doesn't take much to tip someone into hate, and turn them into someone unrecognisable. All it takes is an idea, and validation. Yes, substance abuse and mental illness can exacerbate things, but sometimes, previously reasonable people find something, either online or through someone they know that tells them that the reason they have problems is THOSE PEOPLE. Who those people are varies with time, society, culture, religion, but it's a poison that some people are all too willing to drink, because they feel an imaginary wound and want to strike out at what they perceive as the cause.

For some reason, this killer hated LDS and saw them as a problem he personally needed to eliminate from the world. However he justified that to himself is never going to make sense because there was never any wound or injustice that warranted this. There was just one man's rage that he pointed at a blameless congregation of families gathering on a Sunday.

MOO

I think we don't even know enough about the substances that are used today and how do they work alone and in combination. I am against criminalizing drugs, but maybe certain "quality control" should exist, even for street drugs, strange as it may sound. Our studies hopelessly lag behind the reality.

So it is a long conversation...I thought that he was on something else, tbh, but I saw that he was a user.

He looks so "typical" that i hoped Michael Moore could comment on it. Not everyone likes Moore, but he is very local and IMHO, understands the life in the area very well.

Thomas Sanford chose LDS, but the mentality that culminated in that hatred was in him.

With a lot of compassion for all victims, and all LDS community.

 

[Betty P]

JMO, his long time resentment of people of the Mormon faith probably was not the reason he finally decided to commit mass murder on those innocent victims.

Something else, some other incident or situation triggered him to do that. He wasn't suicidal and had to be killed by LE who responded. JMO, that means he had grandiose feelings about his reasons for committing mass murder and his ability to do it and escape. It seems unlikely someone would carry a grudge for 10 years, then act upon it in such a violent way without some triggering event. I don't believe that provocation came from members of the LDS community, they are innocent victims. The killer was also putting the lives of others in danger, which may speak to a broader motive. JMO

Disclaimer: In no way is this intended to insult or impugn his parents, relatives, friends, neighbors, acquaintances, or members of the LDS religion.

Hopefully, the public will eventually find out what drove him to commit such a horrible act, but I'm not optimistic. It would help us to understand why mass murder and violence is exploding here. JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Though I am not familiar with Mormonism, I have read articles suggesting that this particular church was holding special events that would have led to more people attending the service.

If so, I suspect he kept tabs on various Mormon churches, then used his knowledge or Mormon religious practices to identify what events at what times would result in increased attendances at what churches.

I don't know what you mean by special events. If you mean that it was a fast and testimony meeting that day, that's nothing unusual, there's one every month. I did wonder if there might have been more attending because of the death of the prophet the day before, but an active member on the thread said there was not.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

I haven’t seen this on the thread, so if I missed it I’m sorry if it’s a repeat. I’m not sure it means anything about his current political beliefs, but he hadn’t taken down the Trump sign. It’s likely this attack was just about LDS, but it doesn’t appear he was a “radical left-wing terrorist,” the label used so freely lately, so I think this is an important point to make. In any case, this is a terrible tragedy and an evil act by a clearly troubled man regardless of his political beliefs. JMO

Mormon church shooting suspect had Trump sign outside home, records show

Google Maps images show suspect who was shot dead by police had Trump sign outside his Michigan house

www.theguardian.com

Images on Google Maps taken in June show that Sanford had a blue sign with Trump’s last name attached to a shed on the side of his house in Burton, Michigan, about a 15-minute drive from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints authorities say he targeted Sunday morning.

The placard, first reported by the Daily Beast, was propped up above a red stop sign. The image of the placard was too unclear to tell definitively whether it also displayed the last name of Mike Pence or JD Vance – Trump’s running mates during his three presidential campaigns since 2016.

Meanwhile, a family photo posted on Facebook shows Sanford posing alongside his wife and 10-year-old son wearing a Re-elect Trump 2020 T-shirt. The shirt from when the first of Trump’s two presidencies ended in defeat to Joe Biden carries the logo “Make Liberals Cry Again”.

Who is Michigan church attacker Thomas Jacob Sanford

Thomas Jacob Sanford, who commonly went by 'Jake', was shot dead in the parking lot of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Grand Blanc, Michigan on Sunday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

(Good photos, of course)

In one image, Sanford poses alongside his wife and son wearing a pro-Trump shirt with the message: 'Make Liberals Cry Again.'

The shirt, which sells for $15.95 on eBay, has a cartoon style picture of Trump with his fist in the air, and reads: 'Re-elect Trump 2020.'

Sanford's loved ones, including his wife and both of his parents, also frequently shared pro-Trump messaging on their social media pages.

I don't think his attack had anything to do with politics.
But with a sick mind.
Obsessive mind.

C'mon...
Talking compulsively about one subject (Mormon Church) to all who had the misfortune to suffer his monologues is not normal.

Obsessions never end well.
(Only moderation folks for happy life IMO)

Oh,
and his substance abuse didn't help either,
that's for sure

Ummm...wasn't he also accused of burglary?

Deranged and criminal through & through.
That was his way of life.

His death in the parking lot by LE is symbolic.
Like life, like death.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

Thomas Sanford had a normal existence for his community. If anything, people helped him (think of this hospital in Texas where his child stayed for two years and everyone who donated) and he threw all kindness of family and strangers under the bus.

I agree.

IMO his motive is still very unclear. Unless he’s left a manifesto, and there’s been no mention of that, or has been ranting and raving about LDS or anything else for awhile, this seems so inexplicable to me.

He’s benefited through the kindness of strangers contributing to his fund to help his son. He seems to have the exact right amount of paternal love toward his ill son. He has a wife who also seems to have been very invested in rescuing their boy. They flew all the way to Texas for the one doctor that could help them, after desperately seeking someone who knew about this rare disease.

Not an incel. Not a teenager or in his 20s, trying to make a notorious name for himself. Not a political act. Not from a neglectful family.

Even if he had an LDS girlfriend in the past, he’s a middle-aged man who’d made a life for himself after that.

So drugs, or PTSD from the military, or some berserk plan to wipe out LDS?

It’s just unfathomable. I still can’t reconcile that he would kill children when he demonstrated so much love and compassion to his own child.

I know these things never make sense, but he’s so far from the usual profile.

It’s bewildering.

JMO

 

[GumshoeX]

Could his hatred be from the request years ago in Utah that he remove his tattoos in order to be sealed in the LDS church? Maybe his tattoos are so meaningful that he was deeply hurt to be rejected because of that and he festered and researched for years, only to get more and more angry? If so, that is definitely an injustice collector.

(I am not taking a stance on tattoos or on the church, but wondering about what HIS perception might have been.)


jmopinion

It sounds like he may have had some experience with the Church, enough to develop a grievance with our standards of living. For example, we follow a health code called the Word of Wisdom, which teaches that our bodies are temples. Because of that, we avoid alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and recreational drugs, and we’re encouraged to show respect for our bodies—including being cautious about tattoos or excessive piercings.

That being said, I’ve personally attended an LDS temple and seen a member with tattoos officiating a temple ordinance. I actually thought it was really neat—it reminded me that we’re all imperfect people just trying to live our best lives. I’ve never heard of anyone being told they must remove tattoos to be considered worthy for the temple. In my experience, it always comes down to a person’s current choices and how sincerely they are striving to live the teachings of the Church.

Of course, I can’t speak to this man’s personal experiences with members of the LDS church. Maybe someone said something that offended him. But whatever the case, it certainly doesn’t justify violence of this nature.

 

[iamshadow21]

I agree.

IMO his motive is still very unclear. Unless he’s left a manifesto, and there’s been no mention of that, or has been ranting and raving about LDS or anything else for awhile, this seems so inexplicable to me.

He’s benefited through the kindness of strangers contributing to his fund to help his son. He seems to have the exact right amount of paternal love toward his ill son. He has a wife who also seems to have been very invested in rescuing their boy. They flew all the way to Texas for the one doctor that could help them, after desperately seeking someone who knew about this rare disease.

Not an incel. Not a teenager or in his 20s, trying to make a notorious name for himself. Not a political act.

Even if he had an LDS girlfriend in the past, he’s a middle-aged man who’d made a life for himself after that.

So drugs, or PTSD from the military, or some berserk plan to wipe out LDS?

It’s just unfathomable. I still can’t reconcile that he would kill children when he demonstrated so much love and compassion to his own child.

I know these things never make sense, but he’s so far from the usual profile.

It’s bewildering.

JMO

It's coming out now that he's been ranting and raving about LDS for over a decade.

MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't know what you mean by special events. If you mean that it was a fast and testimony meeting that day, that's nothing unusual, there's one every month. I did wonder if there might have been more attending because of the death of the prophet the day before, but an active member on the thread said there was not.

MOO

I think his attack took some planning, but maybe not? Maybe the news of the prophet dying gave him the idea of "now is the time to strike" before they re-group under a new leader?

Brainstorming only, thinking aloud, pondering a crime that likely will never make sense.

jmopinion

 

[Arkay]

@Dotta @iamshadow21

I see now from your posts that he did indeed have a history of ranting against LDS. I must have missed that along the way.

Still of course it’s incomprehensible that this is the action he took.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I think his attack took some planning, but maybe not? Maybe the news of the prophet dying gave him the idea of "now is the time to strike" before they re-group under a new leader?

Brainstorming only, thinking aloud, pondering a crime that likely will never make sense.

jmopinion

Hopefully, a search of his home, cell phone and computer/internet activity will reveal some clues. The drug screen from his autopsy will also help.

Did he recently lose a job? Lose a girlfriend or significant other?

 

[airportwoman]

I'm on the security team for my church and we had LE come in and teach an Active Shooter training. We have "range days" at a local shooting rage about once every 3 months. We've also been taught in hand-to-hand combat. I miss the days of just going to church and relaxing, with no worries.

I sure hope the people who do this are not the type who signed up, because they WANT to take down a bad guy with a gun.

 

[iamshadow21]

It sounds like he may have had some experience with the Church, enough to develop a grievance with our standards of living. For example, we follow a health code called the Word of Wisdom, which teaches that our bodies are temples. Because of that, we avoid alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and recreational drugs, and we’re encouraged to show respect for our bodies—including being cautious about tattoos or excessive piercings.

That being said, I’ve personally attended an LDS temple and seen a member with tattoos officiating a temple ordinance. I actually thought it was really neat—it reminded me that we’re all imperfect people just trying to live our best lives. I’ve never heard of anyone being told they must remove tattoos to be considered worthy for the temple. In my experience, it always comes down to a person’s current choices and how sincerely they are striving to live the teachings of the Church.

Of course, I can’t speak to this man’s personal experiences with members of the LDS church. Maybe someone said something that offended him. But whatever the case, it certainly doesn’t justify violence of this nature.

Yeah, as I said earlier on the thread, my housemate is an active member, has been for a very long time, and she's got two tattoos in the last few years. Both small and easily covered, but they're recent, and she is temple worthy.

MOO

 

[Warwick7]

We live in a world that we did not grow up in. We are going to see on a daily basis more and more and more of this.
And, sad to say, the mental illness behind this horrible loss of life is going to be a common denominator.

Who was Thomas Sanford, the Michigan shooting suspect | CNN https://share.google/ANFOR3mJpo4nUJKwx

 

[Warwick7]

I agree.

IMO his motive is still very unclear. Unless he’s left a manifesto, and there’s been no mention of that, or has been ranting and raving about LDS or anything else for awhile, this seems so inexplicable to me.

He’s benefited through the kindness of strangers contributing to his fund to help his son. He seems to have the exact right amount of paternal love toward his ill son. He has a wife who also seems to have been very invested in rescuing their boy. They flew all the way to Texas for the one doctor that could help them, after desperately seeking someone who knew about this rare disease.

Not an incel. Not a teenager or in his 20s, trying to make a notorious name for himself. Not a political act. Not from a neglectful family.

Even if he had an LDS girlfriend in the past, he’s a middle-aged man who’d made a life for himself after that.

So drugs, or PTSD from the military, or some berserk plan to wipe out LDS?

It’s just unfathomable. I still can’t reconcile that he would kill children when he demonstrated so much love and compassion to his own child.

I know these things never make sense, but he’s so far from the usual profile.

It’s bewildering.

JMO

Very good post.

 

[Inthedetails]

Yeah, as I said earlier on the thread, my housemate is an active member, has been for a very long time, and she's got two tattoos in the last few years. Both small and easily covered, but they're recent, and she is temple worthy.

MOO

I think the consensus is he wouldn't have been required to remove his tattoos, but seems that HE thought it was required. We don't know the details or accuracy of his story, but it seems he recently told someone he was asked to remove his tattoos.

Whatever was asked of him - or whatever HE THOUGHT was asked of him - it seems to have affected him deeply. It's entirely possible he's been offended for years over a misunderstanding.

I'm wondering if his tattoos represent his time in the military. I'm sure he bonded with his fellow soldiers and identified as American military. Perhaps that explains why he displayed flags as he rammed into the LDS church.

Again, I'm not commenting about tattoos in general or LDS rules specifically, but what HE might have been thinking and what might have offended HIM.

jmopinion

 

[Warwick7]

I think the consensus is he wouldn't have been required to remove his tattoos, but seems that HE thought it was required. We don't know the details or accuracy of his story, but it seems he recently told someone he was asked to remove his tattoos.

Whatever was asked of him - or whatever HE THOUGHT was asked of him - it seems to have affected him deeply. It's entirely possible he's been offended for years over a misunderstanding.

I'm wondering if his tattoos represent his time in the military. I'm sure he bonded with his fellow soldiers and identified as American military. Perhaps that explains why he displayed flags as he rammed into the LDS church.

Again, I'm not commenting about tattoos in general or LDS rules specifically, but what HE might have been thinking and what might have offended HIM.

jmopinion

Thank you for this post. Yes, this is what this comes down to. He took the law into his own hands, which he had no right to do.

He was focused on His thoughts. His emotions. His thinking.

Disagreement is not a justification for killing. Difference of opinion and even hatred is not a justification for killing.

Unless there is mental illness...then is man was extremely selfish. M00