MI, Grand Blanc - Mass Shooting at Mormon Church, fire, 28 Sept 2025

[Betty P]

I think his attack took some planning, but maybe not? Maybe the news of the prophet dying gave him the idea of "now is the time to strike" before they re-group under a new leader?

Brainstorming only, thinking aloud, pondering a crime that likely will never make sense.

jmopinion

Hopefully, a search of his home, cell phone and computer/internet activity will reveal some clues. The drug screen from his autopsy will also help.

Did he recently lose a job? Lose a girlfriend or significant other?

 

[airportwoman]

I'm on the security team for my church and we had LE come in and teach an Active Shooter training. We have "range days" at a local shooting rage about once every 3 months. We've also been taught in hand-to-hand combat. I miss the days of just going to church and relaxing, with no worries.

I sure hope the people who do this are not the type who signed up, because they WANT to take down a bad guy with a gun.

 

[iamshadow21]

It sounds like he may have had some experience with the Church, enough to develop a grievance with our standards of living. For example, we follow a health code called the Word of Wisdom, which teaches that our bodies are temples. Because of that, we avoid alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, and recreational drugs, and we’re encouraged to show respect for our bodies—including being cautious about tattoos or excessive piercings.

That being said, I’ve personally attended an LDS temple and seen a member with tattoos officiating a temple ordinance. I actually thought it was really neat—it reminded me that we’re all imperfect people just trying to live our best lives. I’ve never heard of anyone being told they must remove tattoos to be considered worthy for the temple. In my experience, it always comes down to a person’s current choices and how sincerely they are striving to live the teachings of the Church.

Of course, I can’t speak to this man’s personal experiences with members of the LDS church. Maybe someone said something that offended him. But whatever the case, it certainly doesn’t justify violence of this nature.

Yeah, as I said earlier on the thread, my housemate is an active member, has been for a very long time, and she's got two tattoos in the last few years. Both small and easily covered, but they're recent, and she is temple worthy.

MOO

 

[Warwick7]

We live in a world that we did not grow up in. We are going to see on a daily basis more and more and more of this.
And, sad to say, the mental illness behind this horrible loss of life is going to be a common denominator.

Who was Thomas Sanford, the Michigan shooting suspect | CNN https://share.google/ANFOR3mJpo4nUJKwx

 

[Warwick7]

I agree.

IMO his motive is still very unclear. Unless he’s left a manifesto, and there’s been no mention of that, or has been ranting and raving about LDS or anything else for awhile, this seems so inexplicable to me.

He’s benefited through the kindness of strangers contributing to his fund to help his son. He seems to have the exact right amount of paternal love toward his ill son. He has a wife who also seems to have been very invested in rescuing their boy. They flew all the way to Texas for the one doctor that could help them, after desperately seeking someone who knew about this rare disease.

Not an incel. Not a teenager or in his 20s, trying to make a notorious name for himself. Not a political act. Not from a neglectful family.

Even if he had an LDS girlfriend in the past, he’s a middle-aged man who’d made a life for himself after that.

So drugs, or PTSD from the military, or some berserk plan to wipe out LDS?

It’s just unfathomable. I still can’t reconcile that he would kill children when he demonstrated so much love and compassion to his own child.

I know these things never make sense, but he’s so far from the usual profile.

It’s bewildering.

JMO

Very good post.

 

[Inthedetails]

Yeah, as I said earlier on the thread, my housemate is an active member, has been for a very long time, and she's got two tattoos in the last few years. Both small and easily covered, but they're recent, and she is temple worthy.

MOO

I think the consensus is he wouldn't have been required to remove his tattoos, but seems that HE thought it was required. We don't know the details or accuracy of his story, but it seems he recently told someone he was asked to remove his tattoos.

Whatever was asked of him - or whatever HE THOUGHT was asked of him - it seems to have affected him deeply. It's entirely possible he's been offended for years over a misunderstanding.

I'm wondering if his tattoos represent his time in the military. I'm sure he bonded with his fellow soldiers and identified as American military. Perhaps that explains why he displayed flags as he rammed into the LDS church.

Again, I'm not commenting about tattoos in general or LDS rules specifically, but what HE might have been thinking and what might have offended HIM.

jmopinion

 

[Warwick7]

I think the consensus is he wouldn't have been required to remove his tattoos, but seems that HE thought it was required. We don't know the details or accuracy of his story, but it seems he recently told someone he was asked to remove his tattoos.

Whatever was asked of him - or whatever HE THOUGHT was asked of him - it seems to have affected him deeply. It's entirely possible he's been offended for years over a misunderstanding.

I'm wondering if his tattoos represent his time in the military. I'm sure he bonded with his fellow soldiers and identified as American military. Perhaps that explains why he displayed flags as he rammed into the LDS church.

Again, I'm not commenting about tattoos in general or LDS rules specifically, but what HE might have been thinking and what might have offended HIM.

jmopinion

Thank you for this post. Yes, this is what this comes down to. He took the law into his own hands, which he had no right to do.

He was focused on His thoughts. His emotions. His thinking.

Disagreement is not a justification for killing. Difference of opinion and even hatred is not a justification for killing.

Unless there is mental illness...then is man was extremely selfish. M00

 

[Cryptic]

I don't know what you mean by special events. If you mean that it was a fast and testimony meeting that day, that's nothing unusual, there's one every month. I did wonder if there might have been more attending because of the death of the prophet the day before, but an active member on the thread said there was not.

Yes, I believe that is what the article referring to. Though I cannot remember what terminology they may have used for the meeting, they mentioned the leadership death.

 

[Inthedetails]

Comments from a friend of the perp:

“How do you mourn the death of someone who did something so terrible?” Kara Pattison said. “If you asked me out of everybody I know to pick 10 people you think might do something like this, I wouldn’t not pick him. And I hate saying that.”

Pattison said she knew Sanford as a “fun-loving family guy,” but also someone who “harbored unkind feelings toward certain groups.”

“He definitely talked about groups of people in ways that weren’t acceptable,” Pattison said.

Extended family of Grand Blanc Township church attacker releases statement

The extended family of the man who killed four people and injured several others at a Grand Blanc Township church released a statement on Tuesday.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Yes, I believe that is what the article referring to. Though I cannot remember what terminology they may have used for the meeting, they mentioned the leadership death.

Fast and testimony meeting is a regular session that differs from other sacrament meetings in structure, but is not a 'special event' that would draw an unusual crowd.

A regular sacrament meeting, after announcements and sacrament, there are around three members who give a talk each on certain subjects. These are preprepared.

At a fast and testimony meeting, after an initial speaker, the meeting is opened up for any member who feels moved to to get up and bear their testimony of the church, the gospel, of Jesus Christ, etc. Anyone, from adults down to toddlers can speak. There are no restrictions to time or subject. Some testimonies are deeply personal, others repeat commonly used phrases like 'I know the Church is true'. Generally, members restrict their testimonies to a few minutes to allow as many others as wish to the time to speak. As with all LDS church gatherings, there is no applause or vocal call and answer for what is said, testimonies are received by the congregation in silence, with the exception of the echoing of 'amen' with the testimony speaker at the end.

From the eyewitness article on Deseret News, at the time the attack took place, that first initial speaker was still at the pulpit and had spoken about the prophet's death.

MOO

 

[House of Holden]

Grand Blanc is about 35 miles northwest of where I live.

I live approximately 1.5 hours from Grabd Blanc. A lady I work with grew up there and knows one of the shooting victims who survived. Apparently he’s in a coma and just underwent a second surgery. So shocking and upsetting..

 

[iamshadow21]

I live approximately 1.5 hours from Grabd Blanc. A lady I work with grew up there and knows one of the shooting victims who survived. Apparently he’s in a coma and just underwent a second surgery. So shocking and upsetting..

Yes, it seems like a smallish place and there seems to be a lot of interconnectedness with the LDS congregation and the nonLDS community, which is wonderful. Both the Catholic and Lutheran churches nearby have opened their churches for use if Grand Blanc Ward needs them. The Lutheran church held a vigil the day after the attack. One of their congregants said that the Grand Blanc Relief Society had brought her meals while she was undergoing cancer treatment, and not just those few LDS ladies she knew, but the Relief Society as a whole. The broader community are embracing Grand Blanc Ward and the LDS in their community as a whole, which is great to see, because everyone should be helping and supporting their fellow humans right now rather than highlighting differences.

MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes, it seems like a smallish place and there seems to be a lot of interconnectedness with the LDS congregation and the nonLDS community, which is wonderful. Both the Catholic and Lutheran churches nearby have opened their churches for use if Grand Blanc Ward needs them. The Lutheran church held a vigil the day after the attack. One of their congregants said that the Grand Blanc Relief Society had brought her meals while she was undergoing cancer treatment, and not just those few LDS ladies she knew, but the Relief Society as a whole. The broader community are embracing Grand Blanc Ward and the LDS in their community as a whole, which is great to see, because everyone should be helping and supporting their fellow humans right now rather than highlighting differences.

MOO

That's how you do it, folks. I really appreciate reading this and seeing the example set for the rest of us to follow.

Feeling grateful for the kindness we used to take for granted.

jmopinion

 

[OneLove]

I wondered if maybe he was getting his terms mixed up and meant "endowment" rather than "sealing"

I'm not familiar with the term "endowment". I understand being sealed. Can you explain what "endowment" is in reference to LDS culture?

 

[FaerieDust]

I think the consensus is he wouldn't have been required to remove his tattoos, but seems that HE thought it was required. We don't know the details or accuracy of his story, but it seems he recently told someone he was asked to remove his tattoos.

Whatever was asked of him - or whatever HE THOUGHT was asked of him - it seems to have affected him deeply. It's entirely possible he's been offended for years over a misunderstanding.

I'm wondering if his tattoos represent his time in the military. I'm sure he bonded with his fellow soldiers and identified as American military. Perhaps that explains why he displayed flags as he rammed into the LDS church.

Again, I'm not commenting about tattoos in general or LDS rules specifically, but what HE might have been thinking and what might have offended HIM.

jmopinion

There’s a well known female Mormon convert influencer with full sleeve tattoos (post from 2015). So I agree, if you’re a convert it’s not seen as big a deal I think.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm not familiar with the term "endowment". I understand being sealed. Can you explain what "endowment" is in reference to LDS culture?

Not a simple or easy thing to answer in a few sentences and keep the thread on track. It's basically about dedicating yourself to God on a higher level. It's a commitment adults make (unlike baptism, which anyone over eight years old can make) and only happens in the temple.

Further reading: About the Temple Endowment | The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

 

[FaerieDust]

I'm not familiar with the term "endowment". I understand being sealed. Can you explain what "endowment" is in reference to LDS culture?

Endowment typically refers to the ceremony that allows an individual access to the temple. It is usually completed before a mission or a wedding (sealing). It requires the individual adhering to the tenets required for a temple recommend, for example abstinence from coffee, alcohol, masturbation and sex outside marriage, alongside attendance of church and testimony of belief, which is ascertained in interviews with a bishop.

More info here.

 

[House of Holden]

I can’t help but wonder if this could be related to the Charlie Kirk assasination? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the man who killed him a member of LDS? Did the church attacker in Grand Blanc see himself as avenging Kirk’s death perhaps?

 

[Inthedetails]

I can’t help but wonder if this could be related to the Charlie Kirk assasination? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the man who killed him a member of LDS? Did the church attacker in Grand Blanc see himself as avenging Kirk’s death perhaps?

From what we've heard so far, this has nothing to do with current events or politics but about the perp's long-standing personal hatred toward the LDS religion.

jmopinion

 

[iamshadow21]

I can’t help but wonder if this could be related to the Charlie Kirk assasination? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the man who killed him a member of LDS? Did the church attacker in Grand Blanc see himself as avenging Kirk’s death perhaps?

I speculated that myself early on, but given what's emerging about his fixation and rage at LDS going back over a decade, I think, like the death of the prophet, it's going to turn out to be a coincidence or just one more thing rather than a true catalyst.

He hated LDS, he thought they were the Antichrist and trying to take over the world for no real reason besides a bad breakup he had that he has never let go of despite having a marriage and a child since then with another woman. Who knows why he decided that Sunday was the day, but from everything that's being said, he was like a train on a track headed that way for a long, long time.

MOO