MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

[MIMOMMY]

JT was scheduled to be onsite cleaning the day after Julia was found – later that afternoon I received a call from him telling me that he apologized for not arriving but that there had been a family emergency, and that he would be into the office in the following days to give a better explanation. The day JT arrived to my office he could not speak as he attempted to tell me what was occurring, he was shaking, and appeared to be in physical distress as he discussed the details.
In the weeks following the discovery of Julia he was on the property working. My initial conversations with him were that of a father who was in shock and grieving the loss of his child. As time went on there were repeated conversations about the case and how the family and JT were holding up. During these conversations JT reacted as any father would - on many occasions when speaking to JT he would become emotional – crying and having a hard time speaking.

As time progressed, JT all though continuing to mourn his daughter, did exactly what any parent would do who had been dealt the cards of being told his daughter had been murdered – He began to become agitated with the fact that more was not being done as far as the investigation – and as any parent would do – his anger that someone had done this to his daughter and that that person was still free. He wanted desperately to be able to comfort his other daughter’s and wife with the fact that although the Julia was gone – Justice would be served.
JT and I have had conversation’s in regards to Julia, his families loss and how they were coping, as well as details in regards to the case that have not been released to the public for obvious reasons. I have spoken to JT since he was placed on bail, as well as his family members and can tell you that my personal feelings about JT have not changed.
At no time did JT ever appear to be “putting on a front” or using “crocodile tears”, I believe that the tears and pain I saw were very real.

• During this time, I was also contacted by Ypsilanti Police department and have spoken to them on at least two occasions.
Obviously all of this is my personal opinion – and as always I welcome your questions.

 

[justnosey]

JT was scheduled to be onsite cleaning the day after Julia was found – later that afternoon I received a call from him telling me that he apologized for not arriving but that there had been a family emergency, and that he would be into the office in the following days to give a better explanation. The day JT arrived to my office he could not speak as he attempted to tell me what was occurring, he was shaking, and appeared to be in physical distress as he discussed the details.
In the weeks following the discovery of Julia he was on the property working. My initial conversations with him were that of a father who was in shock and grieving the loss of his child. As time went on there were repeated conversations about the case and how the family and JT were holding up. During these conversations JT reacted as any father would - on many occasions when speaking to JT he would become emotional – crying and having a hard time speaking.

As time progressed, JT all though continuing to mourn his daughter, did exactly what any parent would do who had been dealt the cards of being told his daughter had been murdered – He began to become agitated with the fact that more was not being done as far as the investigation – and as any parent would do – his anger that someone had done this to his daughter and that that person was still free. He wanted desperately to be able to comfort his other daughter’s and wife with the fact that although the Julia was gone – Justice would be served.
JT and I have had conversation’s in regards to Julia, his families loss and how they were coping, as well as details in regards to the case that have not been released to the public for obvious reasons. I have spoken to JT since he was placed on bail, as well as his family members and can tell you that my personal feelings about JT have not changed.
At no time did JT ever appear to be “putting on a front” or using “crocodile tears”, I believe that the tears and pain I saw were very real.

• During this time, I was also contacted by Ypsilanti Police department and have spoken to them on at least two occasions.
Obviously all of this is my personal opinion – and as always I welcome your questions.

Thanks for taking time to write that MIMOMMY. For me, the child charges seem weak and unfounded. I feel like this was done as an attempt to keep him in the public eye, as a POI in Julia's murder or to hold him. But I just don't know why yet! It's easy for people to sit behind their computers and dissect someone's personality to try and make it "fit" with what we have been told. People will scrutinize his every word and every move because the public wants answers and justice. But the truth is most of us (thankfully) will never know what it feels like to have a family member murdered...yet somehow we have expectations of how one should act, speak and behave. When it comes to LE and what is released to the public...as a matter of public relations I just cannot see how they would put a victims family member out there publicly as a POI without some damn good reason. Not a feeling, not a he is a weird guy, etc. But some concrete evidence. I know that LE is not perfect, but I do not feel this is a case of tunnel vision-I have a feeling that those pieces that we the public do not know yet, are the reason that JT has been on their radar since the beginning.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Here some good basic info on child predators, and how they choose their victims:

http://drphil.com/articles/article/704

 

[FindHG]

Thanks for taking time to write that MIMOMMY. For me, the child charges seem weak and unfounded. I feel like this was done as an attempt to keep him in the public eye, as a POI in Julia's murder or to hold him. But I just don't know why yet! It's easy for people to sit behind their computers and dissect someone's personality to try and make it "fit" with what we have been told. People will scrutinize his every word and every move because the public wants answers and justice. But the truth is most of us (thankfully) will never know what it feels like to have a family member murdered...yet somehow we have expectations of how one should act, speak and behave. When it comes to LE and what is released to the public...as a matter of public relations I just cannot see how they would put a victims family member out there publicly as a POI without some damn good reason. Not a feeling, not a he is a weird guy, etc. But some concrete evidence. I know that LE is not perfect, but I do not feel this is a case of tunnel vision-I have a feeling that those pieces that we the public do not know yet, are the reason that JT has been on their radar since the beginning.

His words to the public, to his friends and his family don't matter. If he wants to get past this he should give a full accounting of his whereabouts to avoid being a POI. What I or anyone outside LE thinks just doesn't matter much. That he is refusing to cooperate on the murder of his step daughter says it all, for me.

MIMOMMY Appreciate your response. You mentioned that he was expected on sight during the day. You mentioned he called that day Julia was found to say he had a family emergency and could not come on sight.

LE was notified at night about Julia by her roommate. Kim is said to have called JT after LE was already there. She got a ride to Julia's, she said, and LE barred her from entering Julia's room. If he wasn't on site due to a family emergency during the day and he wasn't with is family either, do you happen to remember what the emergency may have been before Julia was found, according to the timing you post, unless you're not being clear enough, or I'm misunderstanding?

I can see that with all the well intention-ed commiseration you provided that it may be very hard for you to come to terms with this, but imagine what his immediate family is going through who have had doubts about him?

 

[dmc43613]

His words to the public, to his friends and his family don't matter. If he wants to get past this he should give a full accounting of his whereabouts to avoid being a POI. What I or anyone outside LE thinks just doesn't matter much at all. That he is refusing to cooperate on the murder of his step daughter says it all, for me.

MIMOMMY Appreciate your response. You mentioned that he was expected on sight during the day. You mentioned he called that day Julia was found to say he had a family emergency and could not come on sight. LE was notified at night about Julia by her roommate. Kim is said to have called JT after LE was already there. She got a ride to Julia's, she said, and could not go in the room. If he wasn't at work due to a family emergency during the day, do you happen to remember what the emergency may have been before Julia was found, according to the timing you post, unless you're not being clear enough, or I'm misunderstanding?

I think you may have misread the statement. I'm sorry I cannot figure out how to BOLD.

I understood it as he didnt arrive when he was supposed to the day AFTER Julia was found and he called late in the day to apologize and that he would explain the next day (a Tuesday if I have my days correct).

 

[black_squirrel]

His words to the public, to his friends and his family don't matter. If he wants to get past this he should give a full accounting of his whereabouts to avoid being a POI. What I or anyone outside LE thinks just doesn't matter much. That he is refusing to cooperate on the murder of his step daughter says it all, for me.

MIMOMMY Appreciate your response. You mentioned that he was expected on sight during the day. You mentioned he called that day Julia was found to say he had a family emergency and could not come on sight. LE was notified at night about Julia by her roommate. Kim is said to have called JT after LE was already there. She got a ride to Julia's, she said, and LE barred her from entering Julia's room. If he wasn't on site due to a family emergency during the day and he wasn't with is family either, do you happen to remember what the emergency may have been before Julia was found, according to the timing you post, unless you're not being clear enough, or I'm misunderstanding?

I think mimommy said that JT called the day after Julia was found, so I sont see any problem


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[FindHG]

I think you may have misread the statement. I'm sorry I cannot figure out how to BOLD.

I understood it as he didnt arrive when he was supposed to the day AFTER Julia was found and he called late in the day to apologize and that he would explain the next day (a Tuesday if I have my days correct).

Ah, you're completely right, it was indeed the day after day after his step daughter was found murdered that he called to say he wasn't coming in. Probably hadn't been in the news yet, so MIMOMMY wouldn't know about it, you're right.

Sorry, MIMOMMY, he wouldn't be working on a Sunday anyway which is when Julia is believed to have been murdered, she wasn't discovered until after she missed work and school by her roommate calling LE. I hope I have this right?

Compiling some info from Trojan1966 below

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...THREAD**NO-DISCUSSION&p=11566364#post11566364

"I believe that Julia quit working at the tanning salon once she entered EMU. According to her friends, she would help JT from time to time doing "cleaning" jobs in the Ypsi area to earn some extra money. The one thing that set Julia apart from Jennifer was the fact that she was not afraid to voice her opinions and she was a "get in your face" type of girl. This maybe what lead to what happened to her. She very easily could have made someone "mad" and that someone decided to get even. Just another possibility."

~
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Ypsilanti-Dec-2012-2&p=11645555#post11645555

"From what I have heard, the "falling out" was due to the fact that Julia did not want to obey JT's house rules. She like to "party" on the days off and would not come home until early morning hours which was unacceptable to the parents. By moving to grandma's house, she had more freedom to come and go as she pleased. I'm sure there's more to this story than that, but that's what I have been told.
As far as a connection to the pictures and Julia's death, I don't believe there is any connection."

~
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Ypsilanti-Dec-2012-2&p=11645548#post11645548

"From the very start of Kim & Jim's relationship, my ex wife has not really liked him. She has always thought he was unfriendly and too much of a disciplinarian when it came to raising the twins. The other thing is that no one knew anything about him other than he was just coming through a divorce. Since then, many "stories" have circulated through the family and I'm not sure which ones are true and which ones are lies. That is why I will not pass them on unless I know the truth. I will not continue to be part of a "rumor mill". Anything I post on this site will be what I consider the truth. If I'm not sure , I'll definitely make a comment to that effect in the post. Now he is awaiting his day in court for the child charge which he denies and says he's completely innocent. His wife and daughters are behind him 100% as they believe him. Me, I'm trying tostay neutral and allow the justice system to come to a verdict on this. Concerning Julia's case, I do not know why JT or my daughter would not co operate 100% with LE. It completely baffles me."

~
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Ypsilanti-Dec-2012-2&p=11639308#post11639308

"Julia had told her sisters that day at lunch that see was going to do some studying since finals were coming up."

 

[MIMOMMY]

Julia was found on a sunday. JT did not show up on a Monday, he called later that same afternoon and said he would not be in and apologized stating there had been a family emergency. I saw him in my office on Tuesday when he explained what was going on. I do not remember if information had been released to the press as far as Julia being identified. I do know that at the very beginning they did not discuss names of family members... we had a regional manager at the time who was upset JT had "no showed" and was reading news articles in the days following attempting to confirm he was connected to Julia as he said.

As far as what his immediate family is going thru, I don't have to imagine...I have spoken to KT on more than one occasion including within the last two weeks as well as JT and JT's mother. I know how they feel. If you are referring to family members on the other side...I will not comment.

 

[MIMOMMY]

I also tend to disagree that it does not matter what JT has said to others. I think anytime someone is attached to this type of crime in any way it is important to hear what has been said to other's. Do I think that it out plays speaking to the police? No. But it matters none the less.

I also have a hard time with the statement that JT has not cooperated. There was a point where I made contact with JT to discuss a certain aspect of the case...JT had a direct line to Ypsilanti Police...I talked to JT who was cleaning on my property...literally walked 2 minutes down the side walk and the detective was calling my cell. So to me...saying he has been uncooperative or fails to have an open line of communication from the beginning seems...at least very poorly worded.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I also tend to disagree that it does not matter what JT has said to others. I think anytime someone is attached to this type of crime in any way it is important to hear what has been said to other's. Do I think that it out plays speaking to the police? No. But it matters none the less.

I also have a hard time with the statement that JT has not cooperated. There was a point where I made contact with JT to discuss a certain aspect of the case...JT had a direct line to Ypsilanti Police...I talked to JT who was cleaning on my property...literally walked 2 minutes down the side walk and the detective was calling my cell. So to me...saying he has been uncooperative or fails to have an open line of communication from the beginning seems...at least very poorly worded.

MiMommy - I think all of us have respect for what a loyal friend you are being. It's clear you do not share the concerning viewpoint that many of us have, and that's o.k. You are sharing with us as you truly see it, genuinely, and we thank you. We also thank you for being here, and continuing to answer our questions. This is a very difficult case, with all sorts of painful accusations and implications. Tough stuff.

Now, try to imagine how we (the armchair spectators) see this. We don't have a dog in this fight, other than to help with research, and offer up ideas that might help with the case. For the most part, we are as impartial as anyone can be. Sure we all come with our various perceptions, but we are at an arms distance.

And from an arms distance, I simply can't get past the fact that LE has named him a POI in his own stepdaughter's murder. If he needs to push a peanut down mainstreet with his nose to clear himself of that suspicion, he should do it. He is not. He has lawyered up, and has not provided a formal statement to LE. Until he does that, he's highly suspect. The charges certainly don't help.

I'm sure you can appreciate how many of us see this.

 

[MIMOMMY]

I can and respect that. But at the same time, I feel like...in this case in particular and I have followed many as I once was pursuing a criminal psych degree, I request that if you (not you in particular) don't think what he has said or done matters...don't ask.

I know LE has said he has not fully cooperated...and for those of you who do not have and personal connection that can immediately be judged by what is being reported in media, however (and no this is not me defending but just asking questions as well) I feel like we should question the why KT and JN have said repeatedly that the statements in regards to him not cooperating are false.

Whether he is guilty or innocent....at what point do you yourself possibly face charges for defending someone else and lying, whether by force or "brainwashing".

Please remember that anything I say is not defending or not defending but simply my personal views and statements as far as what I know. If I know something to be fact, I will openly state fact...and such with opinions.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I can and respect that. But at the same time, I feel like...in this case in particular and I have followed many as I once was pursuing a criminal psych degree, I request that of you (not you in particular) don't think what he has said or done matters...don't ask.

I know LE has said he has not fully cooperated...and for those of you who do not have and personal connection that can immediately be judged by what is being reported in media, however (and no this is not me defending but just asking questions as well) I feel like we should question the why KT and JN have said repeatedly that the statements in regards to him not cooperating are false.

Whether he is guilty or innocent....at what point do you yourself possibly face charges for defending someone else and lying, whether by force or "brainwashing".

Please remember that anything I say is not defending or not defending but simply my personal views and statements as far as what I know. If I know something to be fact, I will open lyrics state fact...and such with opinions.

Very well said, and I know that you have earned the respect of all the regulars on this thread because of your genuine and honest approach. Here's what I will offer up for your consideration. It is very difficult for our minds to conceive a very different reality once we have cemented an impression. Your impression of the POI is a positive, courteous, and genuine person. You have data points to back that up. Thus, these allegations do not align with the data that you possess. And if you were dealing with a normal human being, your assessment would stand sound.

However, the criminal mind operates differently, and manifests by creating false realities to those around them. Psychopaths use manipulation and charm to deceive...they are incredible actors. Perhaps some of this rings true? Again, just speculation on my part.

Thank you again for your respectful and frank posts. Hugs to you

 

[MIMOMMY]

I agree that a sociopath, psychopath, or even someone with narcissistic tendencies has the ability to manipulate among many other qualities.

Here is another issue I struggle with...if this were the case...and let's say he has had psychological disorders for an extended period of time. (I'm not talking about depression or any of the such here). Would we not have heard from someone else at this point? This individual is in his 40's. I believe there should be an ex girlfriend...and co-worker...someone else who has concerns.

In regards to KT' S family and their statements in regards to JT and his personality, parenting, etc. (And here I am not bashing Trojan in any way) imagine if you had a very young teen daughter who became pregnant and had not one but two babies when she was still a "baby"...you then end up raising your child, and her children as if they are all your children ....now imagine years later a man comes in with a different parenting style and "takes" those babies away from you. Most would be devastated and hurt and feel like no one could love and care for them like they did (I know I would).

JT is no nonsense...I can assure you that there were rules in that home, and respect was given (a dying thing I believe and I have 5 of my own). Grandparents are supposed to be the ones you run to when mom and dad are mean.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree that a sociopath, psychopath, or even someone with narcissistic tendencies has the ability to manipulate among many other qualities.

Here is another issue I struggle with...if this were the case...and let's say he has had psychological disorders for an extended period of time. (I'm not talking about depression or any of the such here). Would we not have heard from someone else at this point? This individual is in his 40's. I believe there should be an ex girlfriend...and co-worker...someone else who has concerns.

In regards to KT' S family and their statements in regards to JT and his personality, parenting, etc. (And here I am not bashing Trojan in any way) imagine if you had a very young teen daughter who became pregnant and had not one but two babies when she was still a "baby"...you then end up raising your child, and her children as if they are all your children ....now imagine years later a man comes in with a different parenting style and "takes" those babies away from you. Most would be devastated and hurt and feel like noone could live and care for them like they did (I know I would).

JT is no nonsense...I can assure you that there were rules in that home, and respect was given (a dying thing I believe and I have 5 of my own). Grandparents are supposed to be the ones you run to when mom and dad are mean.

These are all good points, and I can tell you are a highly intelligent, and good woman who is trying to process what is an incredible amount of data points. And, you know these people! Wow.
So let's try this. Let's say the Grandparents *are* feeling put out, but they *do* have valid concerns? Despite JT's good orderly approach, there are highly questionable actions, and concerns. I don't think these Grandparents appear to be the type to expose all their personal business to the world without due cause.

And yes, we need to hear from his ex-wife. LE knows how to sort through the bitter ex talk, and determine if there are any historical data points that are important for his present concerns. That is a very good point MiMommy, and we need to hear from her. I'm sure she'd rather stay out of this and avoid any media attention.
What a nightmare.

Make sense?
More hugs.

 

[MIMOMMY]

I guess a great question for Trojan (and I obviously will understand if he does not answer) is whether or not HE had concerns about JT. We are all aware of how grandmother felt but....if they were in the same home at that time...what was his vibe?

One would also think Julia would have spoken to a friend about her "horrible" dad...or perhaps had friends who also experienced or saw/heard of JT being a monster?

I do agree that the ex wife may have things to say....but my understanding is she did not come forward until recently...why wait so long?

 

[Spellbound]

MiMommy, thank you for the clarity in your posts. It has to be difficult to be in a position of believing (or even wanting to believe) in a person that so many have doubts about. I have gained more respect for your position from your openness here. Not that I don't still have doubts as to JT. I honestly do not know what to feel about him and how he has presented himself, especially in light of the most recent event. I am trying to stay open minded.

Thanks again.

 

[MIMOMMY]

No thanks is needed. I suppose sometimes I feel as though I am playing devils advocate.

I know someone had mentioned him being barefoot...my husband a son are very active in martial arts ( in no way attached to JT) and have said that could simply be in respect of his training...similar to not wearing shoes while in the dojo......

 

[rosesfromangels]

I guess a great question for Trojan (and I obviously will understand if he does not answer) is whether or not HE had concerns about JT. We are all aware of how grandmother felt but....if they were in the same home at that time...what was his vibe?

One would also think Julia would have spoken to a friend about her "horrible" dad...or perhaps had friends who also experienced or saw/heard of JT being a monster?

I do agree that the ex wife may have things to say....but my understanding is she did not come forward until recently...why wait so long?

Well who the heck wants to be involved in this, and potentially have the media sticking a mike in her face. I'd be reticent too. I'm sure the last thing she wants is to have anything to do with her ex

 

[MIMOMMY]

I should have stated that differently...not that she should speak with the media. I am speaking in regards to her recently making contact withe the police in general.

There are many who have spoken with LE in regards to this case including myself and we are not in the media spotlight.

I suppose my personal feeling is. Ex or current or whatever if I thought he was evil..and had anything that "might" be important I would have spoken sooner?

 

[rosesfromangels]

O.K. got it.
What's happening to the martial arts training and cleaning business? Who is running that while Turnquist is sorting out his legal issues?