MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[black_squirrel]

I do remember family members saying Julia took showers as far as they remembered. So, I'm speculating the attacker(s) filled the tub with water to remove evidence and possibly try to make Julia's death look like an accident.

So, I did a little experiment using a friend who's about Julia's size in a standard size bathtub. We filled the bathtub up to full just below the metal overdrain and this is what we found:

1. She cannot fully fit in the tub, in a face down position.
2. Her legs have to bend up at the knee.
3. She is partially submerged because her body floats up in this position.

This is crazy because if someone was trying to stage a drowning in the bathtub it would seem more believable if a person of Julia's size was placed on their back into the bathtub with their legs folded at the knee (the knees are out of the bath, and the lower leg and foot submerged). Then, their head lowered into the bathtub water, like they passed out or something. Based on the size of a standard tub and layout the bathroom, falling face first, it seems impossible to land in the position Julia was found.

You have nice friends that are willing to be guinea pigs for scientific experiments!

I think that with a high probability, the attacker did NOT attempt to make the crime scene look like an accident. The body was found in an unnatural position, the room was in disarray, a pillow case was obviously missing, there was a bloody glove, and the apartment key was missing. It almost seems like the perpetrator made sure that it did NOT look like an accident.

However, there is some staging. I think there may be 2 possible reasons. First, the attacker want to hide his identity. Second, the perpetrator may want the body found in a particular way, matching his perverse fantasy. (I am assuming here that the person who did this is one male, but this is of course not certain.)

So, I have to wonder, was Julia placed into the bathtub in an effort to remove evidence only? Or, maybe to preserve the body longer? How much time did the attacker(s) think would go by before Julia would be looked in on? Did the attacker(s) think whom ever found her would quickly remove Julia from the tub in an effort to help, before LE arrived on the scene?

It just seems like someone panicked, only halfway calculating a bathtub drowning the same way they halfway calculated staging a possible robbery in Julia's room, ransacking, with nothing of value missing, except Julia's keys. As for the rubber gloves being found. I hazard to think, but if the attacker(s) were using rubber gloves, why didn't they use a condom? And why use rubber gloves and leave them behind. Seems like another halfway calculated staging to me?

Those are some good questions. I don't think the scene was staged to look like a robbery. Julia being partially closed wouldn't fit. Perhaps the perpetrator is someone she knows but who people generally not associate with her. Perhaps the perpetrator wanted to make sure that there is nothing in the room (such as letters, cards, gifts) that would be associated with him.

Maybe the disarray of the room, and the bloody glove were just meant to confuse investigators.

I think that the semen found may also have been planted.

If someone(s) calculated Julia's death, why in early December did this senseless death have to happen? Was it because the opportunity became available? As far as we know, the attacker(s) came to Julia's apartment unannounced, Julia let them in, or the attacker(s) had a key or something. There was no sign of forced entry.

 

[Trojan1966]

Hi All,
Below is an open letter to one and all. I do know that my family reads WS even though they have never joined. My daughter, KT, and granddaughter JN have indicated that they never want to see or hear from me again. Maybe this site is a place that I may express my concerns to them so they will know my true feelings. I just want the truth and Justice for Julia.

My most important questions for WS members and everyone else are:
1. Why would Julia's mother not be constantly questioning LE about the status of the investigation?
2. Why would she not be willing to answer any and all question that LE may have any time? Volunteer to sit down with the detectives and fully cooperate. Give formal statements.....
3. If there is a personal "conflict" between KT and LE, what's more important........ Being silent or helping solve Julia's murder?
4. Why hasn't Julia's twin stepped up and voluntarily talked to LE alone?
5. Why hasn't JT sat down with LE - even if he has to bring his lawyer - to answer questions and give a formal statement?
6. Is this a "game" for JT and he likes the personal attention of being a POI? Why not clear yourself and get that POI removed?

As Julia's grandfather, I'll never truly understand the lack of total cooperation of the immediate family in this case. Yes, they did cooperate early on in the investigation but why the lack of total and constant cooperation? Again, my goal has always been to assist in any way possible to get Justice for Julia. The immediate family seems to have lost that goal because JT is a POI. Their main objective seems to have been "defend JT"! He has a very good lawyer, why not cooperate now? If he is totally innocent, is he worried about getting "railroaded" concerning Julia's murder? Evidently he does not have great confidence in his lawyer or he knows he's guilty of being involved in one way or another. I can remember talking to the family early on and they would say -"Let the detectives do their job" - "They will solve this crime." Well, lately it has been the fact that the family isn't talking and yet the detective continue to "dig". I have the utmost confidence in LE and the forensic science of today that this murder will be solved. Forensic science is making breakthroughs everyday and sooner or later, science will help solve this terrible crime. I pray for this each and every day. Julia is gone and nothing will bring her back but solving this crime may help in final closure for all concerned.
The members on this website have been very helpful and I appreciate all your "ideas and theories" that come forward. Possibly one day soon, we may find that "magical clue" that will break this case wide open. Keep digging and theorizing, I want everyone to know I appreciate the efforts made by one and all.

 

[Spellbound]

Trojan, your post makes any efforts to help find answers very worthwhile. Your appreciation and desire to find the answers is what keeps us coming back and sharing any thoughts we may have. We are only amateurs, and stumble along the way. However, we never give up.

:hug:

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I agree, future scientific breakthroughs may help to solve this horrible crime. I'm sorry to hear KT, and JN (twin) granddaughters will not speak to you Trojan_1966. I'm assuming they feel this way about the rest of the family members too who want JT and the rest of the family to fully cooperate with LE. I believe this will pass and your family will be reunited again in the future. Every family has DRAMA. IMO...JT has got something BIG to hide, or he is the most difficult man on the planet.

Some day soon KT and JN (twin) will want more answers and start to really investigate Julia's murder, not just drop off more names to YPD of any and every guy Julia ever spoke with. (That being said, if any name is give, it should be investigated). YPD has spent a lot of time investigating every lead. JN (twin) was probably the closest to Julia since they were twins, so I hope and pray for the family is that she will research Julia's murder as objectively as possible soon. JN (twin) saw Julia that Sunday for lunch. I hope she is able to go back to that day and remember everything that Julia may have said.

I hope we find out which city KT and JT moved to soon. JT is a public POI in the murder of Julia, so I think the public needs to keep tabs on the family. I do wonder when someone is a POI in a murder case if they are required to report their new address with LE? I noticed one of the Milan apartment complexes (not sure if it's the one JT's company was cleaning at) has another complex in Brighton, Michigan. That's in Livingston County and approximately 35-40 minutes from Ypsilanti. Thinking KT is still working in YPSI. Not sure.

 

[Trojan1966]

I agree, future scientific breakthroughs may help to solve this horrible crime. I'm sorry to hear KT, and JN (twin) granddaughters will not speak to you Trojan_1966. I'm assuming they feel this way about the rest of the family members too who want JT and the rest of the family to fully cooperate with LE. I believe this will pass and your family will be reunited again in the future. Every family has DRAMA. IMO...JT has got something BIG to hide, or he is the most difficult man on the planet.

Some day soon KT and JN (twin) will want more answers and start to really investigate Julia's murder, not just drop off more names to YPD of any and every guy Julia ever spoke with. (That being said, if any name is give, it should be investigated). YPD has spent a lot of time investigating every lead. JN (twin) was probably the closest to Julia since they were twins, so I hope and pray for the family is that she will research Julia's murder as objectively as possible soon. JN (twin) saw Julia that Sunday for lunch. I hope she is able to go back to that day and remember everything that Julia may have said.

I hope we find out which city KT and JT moved to soon. JT is a public POI in the murder of Julia, so I think the public needs to keep tabs on the family. I do wonder when someone is a POI in a murder case if they are required to report their new address with LE? I noticed one of the Milan apartment complexes (not sure if it's the one JT's company was cleaning at) has another complex in Brighton, Michigan. That's in Livingston County and approximately 35-40 minutes from Ypsilanti. Thinking KT is still working in YPSI. Not sure.

KT is no longer working in the YPSI Meijers store. She has transferred to a Meijers store north of Detroit. I believe the Turnquist family has relocated to an area north of Detroit.

 

[black_squirrel]

Hi All,
Below is an open letter to one and all. I do know that my family reads WS even though they have never joined. My daughter, KT, and granddaughter JN have indicated that they never want to see or hear from me again. Maybe this site is a place that I may express my concerns to them so they will know my true feelings. I just want the truth and Justice for Julia.

My most important questions for WS members and everyone else are:
1. Why would Julia's mother not be constantly questioning LE about the status of the investigation?
2. Why would she not be willing to answer any and all question that LE may have any time? Volunteer to sit down with the detectives and fully cooperate. Give formal statements.....
3. If there is a personal "conflict" between KT and LE, what's more important........ Being silent or helping solve Julia's murder?
4. Why hasn't Julia's twin stepped up and voluntarily talked to LE alone?
5. Why hasn't JT sat down with LE - even if he has to bring his lawyer - to answer questions and give a formal statement?
6. Is this a "game" for JT and he likes the personal attention of being a POI? Why not clear yourself and get that POI removed?

As Julia's grandfather, I'll never truly understand the lack of total cooperation of the immediate family in this case. Yes, they did cooperate early on in the investigation but why the lack of total and constant cooperation? Again, my goal has always been to assist in any way possible to get Justice for Julia. The immediate family seems to have lost that goal because JT is a POI. Their main objective seems to have been "defend JT"! He has a very good lawyer, why not cooperate now? If he is totally innocent, is he worried about getting "railroaded" concerning Julia's murder? Evidently he does not have great confidence in his lawyer or he knows he's guilty of being involved in one way or another. I can remember talking to the family early on and they would say -"Let the detectives do their job" - "They will solve this crime." Well, lately it has been the fact that the family isn't talking and yet the detective continue to "dig". I have the utmost confidence in LE and the forensic science of today that this murder will be solved. Forensic science is making breakthroughs everyday and sooner or later, science will help solve this terrible crime. I pray for this each and every day. Julia is gone and nothing will bring her back but solving this crime may help in final closure for all concerned.
The members on this website have been very helpful and I appreciate all your "ideas and theories" that come forward. Possibly one day soon, we may find that "magical clue" that will break this case wide open. Keep digging and theorizing, I want everyone to know I appreciate the efforts made by one and all.

I think it is unfortunate, but it seems that Julia's parents and twin sister have lost the trust in law enforcement and in Julia's grandparents. The questions you ask have already been asked and discussed in this forum many times. Like before, they probably will not take the bait and join WS to respond.

I also believe that forensic science will solve this case. I am surprised that the physical evidence has taken a back seat in the beginning of the investigation. Why was a bath rug not collected as evidence? Why did it take 2 years to determine that the semen found is consistent with a person who has had a vasectomy? It would be very useful to have a DNA profile from the semen sample. I suppose that current technology wasn't able to do this, at least such a DNA profile wasn't mentioned in the affidavit. (And of course it would also be useful to have a DNA profile from the second, weaker sample from the gloves).
The most promising piece of evidence are the gloves, since one DNA profile was extracted from it, and also because it is something that the perpetrator brought to the scene and was left behind. For example, if the type of gloves are rare, or only used in a certain profession, etc., then that might give a clue. The DNA probably belongs to the perpetrator, or to someone he knows or comes in contact with.

 

[Trojan1966]

I also believe that forensic science will solve this case. I am surprised that the physical evidence has taken a back seat in the beginning of the investigation. Why was a bath rug not collected as evidence? Why did it take 2 years to determine that the semen found is consistent with a person who has had a vasectomy? It would be very useful to have a DNA profile from the semen sample. I suppose that current technology wasn't able to do this, at least such a DNA profile wasn't mentioned in the affidavit. (And of course it would also be useful to have a DNA profile from the second, weaker sample from the gloves).
The most promising piece of evidence are the gloves, since one DNA profile was extracted from it, and also because it is something that the perpetrator brought to the scene and was left behind. For example, if the type of gloves are rare, or only used in a certain profession, etc., then that might give a clue. The DNA probably belongs to the perpetrator, or to someone he knows or comes in contact with.

In the affidavit, item "N" mentions the DNA, so it did not take two years to find it. It says on December 13, 2013 but since the item above and below were from 2012, possibly the date is a type "error". Whatever the results were, LE isn't saying.
I also found a very interesting article concerning a newer DNA test: "New DNA Test Can Now Determine Hair, Eye Color Of A Possible Suspect August 26, 2012".
Here's the web site : http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112681895/dna-test-hair-eye-color-082612/#lwEmtOs8Xjclr5lx.99
Now, was this test used??? I don't know but the information was provided to LE.
As far as them joining WS, I believe they are afraid to do that or say anything. I believe that JT's lawyer has convinced them not to do a thing. That's too bad, but I believe that LE will keep digging and will find the truth with or without their cooperation.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

In the affidavit, item "N" mentions the DNA, so it did not take two years to find it. It says on December 13, 2013 but since the item above and below were from 2012, possibly the date is a type "error". Whatever the results were, LE isn't saying.
I also found a very interesting article concerning a newer DNA test: "New DNA Test Can Now Determine Hair, Eye Color Of A Possible Suspect August 26, 2012".
Here's the web site : http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112681895/dna-test-hair-eye-color-082612/#lwEmtOs8Xjclr5lx.99
Now, was this test used??? I don't know but the information was provided to LE.
As far as them joining WS, I believe they are afraid to do that or say anything. I believe that JT's lawyer has convinced them not to do a thing. That's too bad, but I believe that LE will keep digging and will find the truth with or without their cooperation.

Thanks for the article link Trojan_1966. I saw program on the Investigative ID Channel were they caught a killer based on this DNA Test. They were able to determine the hair and eye color of the potential suspect and his genealogical background. As it turned out, the killer had a rare genealogical background, which made it easy for LE to narrow the suspects.

 

[MIMOMMY]

I hope we find out which city KT and JT moved to soon. JT is a public POI in the murder of Julia, so I think the public needs to keep tabs on the family. I do wonder when someone is a POI in a murder case if they are required to report their new address with LE? I noticed one of the Milan apartment complexes (not sure if it's the one JT's company was cleaning at) has another complex in Brighton, Michigan. That's in Livingston County and approximately 35-40 minutes from Ypsilanti. Thinking KT is still working in YPSI. Not sure.

In regards to this information - JT was not attached to a company in Milan that also has a property in Brighton, Mi.

 

[caspermi]

Did each unit have its own washer and dryer or was there a community laundry room in the apartment building?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Did each unit have its own washer and dryer or was there a community laundry room in the apartment building?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

https://www.americancampus.com/stud...lar-place/floor-plans/3-bedroom-3-bath-dlx-rm

The floorplan is attached: It looks like a washer/dryer comes with the apartment. There is a common workout area and hangout area in the complex. It doesn't list the hours of the common areas.

 

[black_squirrel]

I believe it has been mentioned that on the night she was seen last, stopped (or may have stopped) at a grocery store on her way home from work. Does anyone know where she stopped/could have stopped?

 

[Trojan1966]

I believe it has been mentioned that on the night she was seen last, stopped (or may have stopped) at a grocery store on her way home from work. Does anyone know where she stopped/could have stopped?

I believe it was a convenience store.... like a 7-11 or something similar. LE has looked at the surveillance cameras from there to see if possibly someone was following or stalking her. Nothing unusual was noticed.

 

[black_squirrel]

I believe it was a convenience store.... like a 7-11 or something similar. LE has looked at the surveillance cameras from there to see if possibly someone was following or stalking her. Nothing unusual was noticed.

Perhaps it was the crossroads market place:
https://www.emich.edu/dining/locations/crossroads/market.php
It is very close to her apartment, on campus. But there are other places that are close as well. This market place
also sells sandwiches, bagels etc. I wonder where/what Julia ate for dinner that night. Did she buy some things to cook at home?
I think it is possible that she talked to someone at the convenience store (a friend who happens to be a clerk or a costumer there)
and invited that person to come over. Such a conversation may not look unusual on a security camera.

 

[black_squirrel]

Perhaps it was the crossroads market place:
https://www.emich.edu/dining/locations/crossroads/market.php
It is very close to her apartment, on campus. But there are other places that are close as well. This market place
also sells sandwiches, bagels etc. I wonder where/what Julia ate for dinner that night. Did she buy some things to cook at home?
I think it is possible that she talked to someone at the convenience store (a friend who happens to be a clerk or a costumer there)
and invited that person to come over. Such a conversation may not look unusual on a security camera.

If the convenience store is close to Julia's apartment, then there are a few options:

Kampus Korner, a gas station that sells various stuff,
https://www.google.com/maps/place/K...6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xc5ea7785f1d1add0!6m1!1e1

Dollar Mart,
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.256...-YBeugaSLGdpsnN0Sg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

crossroads market place (not very visible from the street, in between the highrise buildings that are dorms)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.253...S7iTeumMII41YzRQ1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

[Deleted member 132804]

If the convenience store is close to Julia's apartment, then there are a few options:

Kampus Korner, a gas station that sells various stuff,
https://www.google.com/maps/place/K...6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xc5ea7785f1d1add0!6m1!1e1

Dollar Mart,
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.256...-YBeugaSLGdpsnN0Sg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

crossroads market place (not very visible from the street, in between the highrise buildings that are dorms)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.253...S7iTeumMII41YzRQ1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Well, we know it's a place with surveillance cameras. There must have been evidence of a purchase at the apartment. Maybe a bag or receipt found in the kitchen area. A receipt will have a time of purchase. From this I bet LE was able to determine the approximate time Julia arrived home. We know too that Walmart has camera surveillance throughout the store and possibly in the parking lot. If Julia left work at 5:00 pm Sunday night, then went to a market on the way home, she could have been home by 6:00 pm, if there were no other stops were made. We know the last text message was made at 10:30 pm, if it was made by Julia, that would be her last communication. IMO..from what I've gathered of Julia's communication patterns, the said event happened sometime late Sunday night/early Monday morning. If Julia could have Monday morning, I believe she would've texted or posted something, like: Awake early or ready for exams etc.. Her planned life stopped from Monday morning on.

 

[black_squirrel]

Well, we know it's a place with surveillance cameras. There must have been evidence of a purchase at the apartment. Maybe a bag or receipt found in the kitchen area. A receipt will have a time of purchase. From this I bet LE was able to determine the approximate time Julia arrived home. We know too that Walmart has camera surveillance throughout the store and possibly in the parking lot. If Julia left work at 5:00 pm Sunday night, then went to a market on the way home, she could have been home by 6:00 pm, if there were no other stops were made. We know the last text message was made at 10:30 pm, if it was made by Julia, that would be her last communication. IMO..from what I've gathered of Julia's communication patterns, the said event happened sometime late Sunday night/early Monday morning. If Julia could have Monday morning, I believe she would've texted or posted something, like: Awake early or ready for exams etc.. Her planned life stopped from Monday morning on.

The crossroads market place has security cameras for sure (I got my morning coffee there this morning on my way to work). Kampus Korner also functions as a gas station, so it is almost certain that it will have security cameras. I am not sure about Dollar Mart.

Police may have checked nearby convenience stores on a hunch. Friends and/or roommates may know about Julia's shopping habits.

 

[Trojan1966]

Perhaps it was the crossroads market place:
https://www.emich.edu/dining/locations/crossroads/market.php
It is very close to her apartment, on campus. But there are other places that are close as well. This market place
also sells sandwiches, bagels etc. I wonder where/what Julia ate for dinner that night. Did she buy some things to cook at home?
I think it is possible that she talked to someone at the convenience store (a friend who happens to be a clerk or a costumer there)
and invited that person to come over. Such a conversation may not look unusual on a security camera.

I'm not sure of exactly what store she stopped at on her way home but LE knows for sure and has reviewed the tapes from there. This was done early in the investigation and nothing unusual was noticed by LE.

 

[Spellbound]

FWIW, there is a 7-11 across from the Ypsi Walmart (corner Elsworth, across from Dunkin Donuts)

 

[black_squirrel]

FWIW, there is a 7-11 across from the Ypsi Walmart (corner Elsworth, across from Dunkin Donuts)

Yes, that 7-11 would be on the way between her work and her apartment. This definitely could be
the place she stopped at.

I wonder though, besides the convenience store, might there be other places that she stopped at?