Michael "Kramer" Richards - a racist?

[Masterj]

I don't agree with your last part, though---I have never been called that, but I am smart enough to know and feel that it is a vile, vulgar, disgusting word and his statements are totally uncalled for.

Julianne, my point here is that while you and I may know how vile and vulgar this word is, it is infinitely more vile, vulgar and hurful to a black person. My boyfriend is black and I am white. We have had slurs yelled at us before (not in NYC) and while they hurt me, I know that I cannot truly understand just how hurtful they are to him. Does that make sense?

 

[windovervocalcords]

Julianne, my point here is that while you and I may know how vile and vulgar this word is, it is infinitely more vile, vulgar and hurful to a black person. My boyfriend is black and I am white. We have had slurs yelled at us before (not in NYC) and while they hurt me, I know that I cannot truly understand just how hurtful they are to him. Does that make sense?

When I was a teenager, I had a black boyfriend and we were innocently holding hands walking down the street. We had racial slurs yelled at us in hatred. I know it hurt me, but it hurt him worse. We were both just kids and could not talk about the experience. We stopped seeing each other soon after those incidents.

There was alot of racial violence in my high school. We are talking riots in those days where the school is shut down and we are locked in classrooms awaiting to be escorted out by police.

We had riot cops outside our high school all four years I attended. I know what its like to have slurs yelled at me in anger and hatred.

Earlier, when I was a younger child, I also befriended a boy at school who happened to be dark skinned. He gave me a bracelet. This ended up requiring humiliating parent/ principal office visits. It was horrible. I never learned my lesson.

I always have close friends who are minority races or religions.

 

[nanandjim]

Julianne, my point here is that while you and I may know how vile and vulgar this word is, it is infinitely more vile, vulgar and hurful to a black person. My boyfriend is black and I am white. We have had slurs yelled at us before (not in NYC) and while they hurt me, I know that I cannot truly understand just how hurtful they are to him. Does that make sense?

I have always thought that it is a reflection on the person using the "N" word rather than the person to whom it is directed. I hate the word and would never use it for any reason, no matter how angry I got.

I know that you will think that I lead a sheltered life, but I thought that as a society we had moved past the yelling of racial slurs at mixed couples.

I'm sorry for you and especially your boyfriend. He should pity these people and consider the source.

 

[2luvmy]

Then I would venture to guess that many posting in this thread are also racists, including you and me.

Can you describe to me in your eyes what a racist is, because I am not getting where you are coming from either?

What do you can people who in a fit of rage attack and say things that attack the very being of a person, not to mention threaten them based on their physical appearance? Michael's comment about if it were 50 years ago, etc. to me was a threat. In essence he was saying if it were back then, you wouldn't be in my presence or else you'd be strung up and forked.

I mean honestly, there is no reason to use certain words unless you are intending to cause and inflict harm or to get a point across.

I wouldn't go around describing my mother as a "cracker" or my DD's good friend as a "slant eye". A woman's OB/GYN wouldn't walk in the room to discuss "c*nt disease" - I mean really one would think something was wrong with the DR.

There are some words you just don't use and when using them one is equated with being racist, cheuvanistic (sp), ingnorant, etc.

 

[Nova]

Me too. The Wikepedia post was referring to how Mark Twain used it, what his intentions were. The term is still controversial and debateable even in literary circles.

Understood, wind. I hope you didn't think I was arguing with you.

As for the Mark Twain controversy, IMHO, the historical use of the word needs to be taught along with the novels. But the appearance of the word is hardly a reason to ban great literature.

 

[nanandjim]

Can I throw out a thought: Even though Richards was wrong in his reaction, this scene would not have taken place had the guy not been heckling in the first place. This guy does bear some responsibility for his part. Just my opinion.

 

[julianne]

Masterj....Yeah, it makes sense. I've never understood racism, and never will. It has caused strife in my family since I was a little kid.

Speaking of little kids, I think that the kids (most) of the kids these days could teach adults a lesson or two when it comes to racism. A few years back, my son had to do an essay on a photograph. The kids could choose any photograph, and the only "rule" was that the photograph had to ignite feelings in them good or bad, and be "powerful" to them. Great teacher! Anyway, it took a week for my son to find just the right photo. He found it in a book I had, I think it was Life magazine "Best 100 photos", or maybe it was even aTime magazine book. The black and white photo was taken in the late 50's or 60's and it was at a soda fountain counter. There were 3 teenagers sitting at the counter, a white girl, a black boy, and a white boy...in that order. Just sitting there trying to enjoy their drinks. In the background directly behind them, an angry mob of about 20 white kids, boys and girls, were throwing drinks over all of their heads, their faces contorted in ugly ways, clearly yelling at the kids at the counter. I think the white girl at the counter was trying to shield the black boy with a book from the things being thrown and hurled at them. Anyway, my son ended up writing a beautiful 3 page essay and entitled it "Black and White in black and white" and I am going to scan it and post it here because it truly was powerful and so damn insightful. He said things in there that I can't possibly begin to attempt to say here, even won an award for it.

Maybe those that truly don't "get it" will be able to understand better from the words of a 12 year old boy. I'm going to go find it, and hopefully this will be the 1 out of 10 times my scanner will work.

 

[Nova]

There is no rationalization for Michael Richards' actions. He was angry, yes. However, for the words and venom he spewed, he clearly has a lot of hatred in his heart and IMO, that cannot be rationalized. Anyone who attempts to make it sound like he just made an error in judgement just DOES NOT GET IT. Those words came from some place and were not just plucked out of thin air.

It really is baffling, anger or no. Since this news broke, I have been thinking of a couple of occasions when I had really, really terrible arguments with African-American friends, fights in which cruel, almost unforgivable things were said by both parties.

And yet the word "" never entered my mind; nor did the other person refer in any way to my skin color. I'm no saint; I said things I deeply regret. And I don't believe anyone in our culture who claims to be completely color-blind.

But the so-called "N word" didn't pop out, not even in moments of madness, because it wasn't in my mind in the first place.

 

[mister happy]

I’m surprised that Michael Richards is even doing standup shtick at these little clubs. It’s minor league for someone who was a classic character on a classic TV show. So, what’s up with that?

 

[mssheila]

Then I would venture to guess that many posting in this thread are also racists, including you and me.

Paladin, you should really explain yourself a little better. The people we are discussing, Mel Gibson and Michael Richards, have said and done things that most people consider racist. Not just the people on these boards, either, Paladin. There is a public outcry about this! Michael Richards LOST HIS MIND, and in his rage over being heckled, he hurled racial slams by calling guests at his comedy routine N*****'s, and that wasn't all! He then went so far as to say "50 years ago we would have hung you upside down and stuck a fork in your A**". :sick: :furious:

Now Paladin, I'm calling you OUT- please explain how calling that person a RACIST is incorrect! I don't appreciate you saying what you did about me and the other posters here, and I feel very insulted.

*ETA: Does anyone understand what he was talking about "stick a fork in your A**"? Did he mean that literally, like people actually DID that back then, or did he mean it like "stick a fork in you, you're done"... I'm sorry, I don't get it! lol

 

[Paladin]

Paladin, you should really explain yourself a little better. The people we are discussing, Mel Gibson and Michael Richards, have said and done things that most people consider racist. Not just the people on these boards, either, Paladin. There is a public outcry about this! Michael Richards went way too far with his racial slams by calling guests at his comedy routine a N*****, and going so far as to say "50 years ago we would have hung you upside down and stuck a fork in your A**".

Now Paladin, I'm calling you OUT- please explain how calling that person a RACIST is incorrect! I don't appreciate you saying what you did about me and the other posters here, and I feel very insulted.

His comments were racist, but that doesn't necessarily make him a racist. Do you really think, or even know, that Michael Richards despises black people? Just because you speak some hateful words doesn't necessarily mean you believe in them.

EDIT: Not everything is black and white, cut and dry in this world. There are different variables of an equation to consider.

 

[mssheila]

His comments were racist, but that doesn't necessarily make someone a racist. Do you really think, or even know, that Michael Richards despises black people? Just because you speak some hateful words doesn't necessarily mean you believe in them.

EDIT: Not everything is black and white, cut and dry in this world. There are different variables of an equation to consider.

Paladin- if you read the whole thread, you'd see the different points of view. I don't think that you have, because you're asking everyone to repeat it, we've discussed all of this.

ETA: yes, I do think that, because he said exactly what he did, he is a racist.

 

[windovervocalcords]

His comments were racist, but that doesn't necessarily make him a racist. Do you really think, or even know, that Michael Richards despises black people? Just because you speak some hateful words doesn't necessarily mean you believe in them.

EDIT: Not everything is black and white, cut and dry in this world. There are different variables of an equation to consider.

I thought you meant that we are not all color blind. That we all have biases whether we express them in such a negative way or not.

If Mr Richards did not have the words imprinted somewhere deep he may have just said other curse words instead of racial slurs when he was angry.

The very best thing he can do IMO is admit the obvious. He may even candidly consider how that came to be that he was able to get out of control and tap into racist slurs.

If he told a story about how he came to that point it would soften the impact IMO. The harm is done. He has big work to do.

 

[Paladin]

Paladin- if you read the whole thread, you'd see the different points of view. I don't think that you have, because you're asking everyone to repeat it, we've discussed all of this.

ETA: yes, I do think that, because he said exactly what he did, he is a racist.

I did, it was a rhetorical question.

 

[MagicRose99]

His comments were racist, but that doesn't necessarily make him a racist. Do you really think, or even know, that Michael Richards despises black people? Just because you speak some hateful words doesn't necessarily mean you believe in them.

EDIT: Not everything is black and white, cut and dry in this world. There are different variables of an equation to consider.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I understand exactly what you're saying Paladin... and totally agree. Apparently, because we believe that people are human and make mistakes, we're in the minority here...

 

[mssheila]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I understand exactly what you're saying Paladin... and totally agree. Apparently, because we believe that people are human and make mistakes, we're in the minority here...

I've tried to make my point, and I think I've failed. This is the last time I'll discuss Paladin's post.

Magicrose99, I don't see people here saying that we're not all human and that we don't all make mistakes. Of course we all make mistakes, you're stating the obvious. What I, and others, are trying to point out, is this. It's very simple.

When most people get angry, they have an arsenal of ugly things to say to another person. The things that are often in your thoughts are what comes OUT when you're angry.

Like I said, I drop the F Bomb.. I might call someone a B* or an A-hole. I use THOSE words. Michael Richards used racist words. The reason that some people now think he's a racist is because he could have chosen any number of ways to express his fury- his own personal arsenal of ugly words. He CHOSE to say the words that are racist and bigoted.

 

[tybee204]

I’m surprised that Michael Richards is even doing standup shtick at these little clubs. It’s minor league for someone who was a classic character on a classic TV show. So, what’s up with that?

Alot of comedians do gigs at these clubs to try out new material etc before they hit bigger venues.

 

[MagicRose99]

I've tried to make my point, and I think I've failed. This is the last time I'll discuss Paladin's post.

Magicrose99, I don't see people here saying that we're not all human and that we don't all make mistakes. Of course we all make mistakes, you're stating the obvious. What I, and others, are trying to point out, is this. It's very simple.

When most people get angry, they have an arsenal of ugly things to say to another person. The things that are often in your thoughts are what comes OUT when you're angry.

Like I said, I drop the F Bomb.. I might call someone a B* or an A-hole. I use THOSE words. Michael Richards used racist words. The reason that some people now think he's a racist is because he could have chosen any number of ways to express his fury- his own personal arsenal of ugly words. He CHOSE to say the words that are racist and bigoted.

I will admit what MOST people here won't admit, because they don't want to "look bad", or offend, or any of the other "stuff"...

I grew up in a household in the 60's where the N word was used frequently to refer to a black person. It was not meant in a derogatory way, it was the way my parent's generation was raised.

My mother was Italian; her family migrated from Naples to NJ in the early 1900s. They learned the slang from the rest of the community. My father was "po' white trash" okie that moved around wherever there was work to be had. They lived in tents and shanty's and mud houses. THIS generation referred to blacks as the N word.

If I get angry, I might spit the word out... doesn't mean I'm a racist. I have black friends who I admire and respect and yes, LOVE. I have black co-workers who I admire and respect.

THAT is the point Paladin and I are trying to make... just because we may use the word in heated moments, doesn't make us racist. To rush to judgement about someone you don't know (and nobody is personally acquainted with "Kramer") is rash.

This is my opinion...

 

[csds703]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I understand exactly what you're saying Paladin... and totally agree. Apparently, because we believe that people are human and make mistakes, we're in the minority here...

I find it sad that you and Paladin don't get it. It is UNACCEPTABLE to scream racist remarks at people. It is unnecessary and shows a complete lack of CLASS,respect and tolerance to your fellow human beings.
Yes ,we all are HUMAN, lets treat each other that way.

 

[southcitymom]

I find it sad that you and Paladin don't get it. It is UNACCEPTABLE to scream racist remarks at people. It is unnecessary and shows a complete lack of CLASS,respect and tolerance to your fellow human beings.
Yes ,we all are HUMAN, lets treat each other that way.

Truly, it's unecessary to scream anything unkind at people - and yet, people being fallible (the nerve!), it happens. Perhaps it shows a lack of class, respect and tolerance towards our fellow human beings - or perhaps it simply shows that we are human beings.

I've enjoyed the comments and different perspectives on this thread...don't really understand who's not getting what....