Michael "Kramer" Richards - a racist?

[southcitymom]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I understand exactly what you're saying Paladin... and totally agree. Apparently, because we believe that people are human and make mistakes, we're in the minority here...

I think lots of folks are with you on this one!

 

[windovervocalcords]

Truly, it's unecessary to scream anything unkind at people - and yet, people being fallible (the nerve!), it happens. Perhaps it shows a lack of class, respect and tolerance towards our fellow human beings - or perhaps it simply shows that we are human beings.

I've enjoyed the comments and different perspectives on this thread...don't really understand who's not getting what....

Who's not getting what?

Hmm..racism, what is it? Who has it? etc etc.

No one here thinks they are racist. (I'm not saying anyone is or isn't, just that no one wants to be, or considers themselves to be, whether they are or they aren't)

If you have a bigoted attitude, you usually don't know it unless someone points it out to you. It's painful.

It happened to me one time. Out of my liberal mouth to my Latino friend came the words: "Why is it Mexicans are so senstive about being Mexican......" My friend told me. She nailed my attitude right to the wall. I did not see it because of my white privelege.

We are very good friends and I value this eexcrutiating lesson. I have not been the same since.

 

[mister happy]

Alot of comedians do gigs at these clubs to try out new material etc before they hit bigger venues.

Yes, I know, and some comedians make a career of just doing standup and hopefully playing the big theaters. However, I think most are really looking for that big TV/Movie break. Standup comedy at small clubs is the only way to get discovered. Anyhow, Michael Richards has already paid his dues and hit the big time, but now it seems like he's starting over!

 

[Nova]

I will admit what MOST people here won't admit, because they don't want to "look bad", or offend, or any of the other "stuff"...

I grew up in a household in the 60's where the N word was used frequently to refer to a black person. It was not meant in a derogatory way, it was the way my parent's generation was raised.

My mother was Italian; her family migrated from Naples to NJ in the early 1900s. They learned the slang from the rest of the community. My father was "po' white trash" okie that moved around wherever there was work to be had. They lived in tents and shanty's and mud houses. THIS generation referred to blacks as the N word.

If I get angry, I might spit the word out... doesn't mean I'm a racist. I have black friends who I admire and respect and yes, LOVE. I have black co-workers who I admire and respect.

THAT is the point Paladin and I are trying to make... just because we may use the word in heated moments, doesn't make us racist. To rush to judgement about someone you don't know (and nobody is personally acquainted with "Kramer") is rash.

This is my opinion...

Magic, you make a good point, that if one grew up in a context where "" was commonly used, one might be more likely to produce the word in the heat of anger. (As I said, the word was taboo even among segregationists where I was raised, so my experience is different.)

That being said, I think you should work very hard to leave that particular word behind, even in anger.

As for Richards, what *I* said was that I found his conduct baffling, and nothing to shrug off lightly. But I didn't nominate him for KKK Grand Dragon.

 

[Nova]

Yes, I know, and some comedians make a career of just doing standup and hopefully playing the big theaters. However, I think most are really looking for that big TV/Movie break. Standup comedy at small clubs is the only way to get discovered. Anyhow, Michael Richards has already paid his dues and hit the big time, but now it seems like he's starting over!

All comedians try out material in small clubs. Jay Leno still does it, even though he has a nightly gig on TV; Jerry Steinfeld does it and did it throughout the run of his phenominally successful sitcom. The whole point of working in such a club is to try material before it is memorialized forever on a national broadcast. (Unfortunately (or not), video cameras are so common now that small clubs aren't as anonymous as they once were.)

Bad as today must be for him, I'm sure Richards is glad he didn't pull that stunt on Letterman.

 

[Masterj]

I will admit what MOST people here won't admit, because they don't want to "look bad", or offend, or any of the other "stuff"...

I grew up in a household in the 60's where the N word was used frequently to refer to a black person. It was not meant in a derogatory way, it was the way my parent's generation was raised.

Did they use the word around black people? I think your parents were well aware that the word was wrong and hateful. I'm sorry, but whether or not it was commonly used during a certain time period doesn't make it right or any less hateful.

 

[MagicRose99]

What's sad to me is that people in this thread are so unforgiving, and God save us who aren't in agreement with them. I'm out... Good luck with the discussion folks!

 

[mister happy]

All comedians try out material in small clubs. Jay Leno still does it, even though he has a nightly gig on TV; Jerry Steinfeld does it and did it throughout the run of his phenominally successful sitcom. The whole point of working in such a club is to try material before it is memorialized forever on a national broadcast. (Unfortunately (or not), video cameras are so common now that small clubs aren't as anonymous as they once were.)

Bad as today must be for him, I'm sure Richards is glad he didn't pull that stunt on Letterman.

The thing is- I don't think Richards was ever a big-time standup comedian, who worked the large venues. I've read that he did a some standup in the early 80s and then landed gigs on various TV shows.

 

[southcitymom]

There's a book - published within the last 5 or 6 years - called , which deals with the history of the word. I have never read it, but may seek it out now.

I don't use the word myself and I cringe when I hear other non-Blacks use it...though not when I hear Blacks use it...a powerful word indeed...look at all the discussion it has generated.

 

[Ntegrity]

Did they use the word around black people? I think your parents were well aware that the word was wrong and hateful. I'm sorry, but whether or not it was commonly used during a certain time period doesn't make it right or any less hateful.

That was a very judgmental post. I seriously doubt if you know what her parents were aware of. As a product of the deep south, I also grew up hearing the word and only knew that it referred to black people. I didn't know it was derogatory until around junior high age when it became "the N word". Not everyone who used "" years ago knew it was wrong or hateful. It was simply the only term they knew to use.

 

[julianne]

Most people here are zeroing in on the fact that he used the "N" word. He didn't JUST use the N word repeatedly. He proudly boasted that "50 years ago WE would've had YOU hung upside down with a f*cking fork in your ass!!!!!"

Now, if that aint a racist remark, I don't know what is. He said it proudly, and he was taunting these poor people who paid good money to come see a show. He was on Letterman last night trying to backpedal ONLY because he knows he just threw his career down the toilet. Too late, Mr. Richards, the damage is done. Most people who have something so sinister to hide are unmasked by others, in this case, he unmasked himself.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

julianne--exactly--can't get more racist than that

 

[windovervocalcords]

Most people here are zeroing in on the fact that he used the "N" word. He didn't JUST use the N word repeatedly. He proudly boasted that "50 years ago WE would've had YOU hung upside down with a f*cking fork in your ass!!!!!"

Now, if that aint a racist remark, I don't know what is. He said it proudly, and he was taunting these poor people who paid good money to come see a show. He was on Letterman last night trying to backpedal ONLY because he knows he just threw his career down the toilet. Too late, Mr. Richards, the damage is done. Most people who have something so sinister to hide are unmasked by others, in this case, he unmasked himself.

This does not mean he can't learn from the experience and that he is damned forever.

His ignorance has been unmasked. May we all be so lucky.

 

[mssheila]

Most people here are zeroing in on the fact that he used the "N" word. He didn't JUST use the N word repeatedly. He proudly boasted that "50 years ago WE would've had YOU hung upside down with a f*cking fork in your ass!!!!!"

Now, if that aint a racist remark, I don't know what is. He said it proudly, and he was taunting these poor people who paid good money to come see a show.

Precisely my point as well, Julianne. Thank you.

 

[TheShadow]

After reading about Richards' encounter with the female comic and the whole episode with his tirade on her, I think this dude has some serious anger management issues and needs to seek help for whatever is causing this frustrated rage within him. Seinfeld knows him well and was totally shocked by what happened. I think that this is probably way out of his normal behavior and indicates a serious problem such as depression or other mental situation. I'm not trying to make excuses, he definitely said some really racist sh*t, and needs to search in himself for why that sort of thing came out. But these 2 incidents, viewed together, probably are indicating that something more is going on here.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Hmmm ... I am seeing a whole lot of defensive posts here.

the real question is, which is worse: Someone who you think is racist or people who are haters?
Because I see a whole lot of "hatin'" going on here.

You shouldn't hate people for what they are, you should forgive them and be glad that you don't act in the same manor. And for those who are spiritual, you pray for them.

I don't hate them - in fact, I don't even know them. So I can't say who or what they are because of one or two outbursts. Everyone changes over time and acts differently in different circumstances.

People who lash back with whatever kinds of words are doing so because they are insecure. Someone hurt them, so they will hurt them more.
Many people in the spotlight are definitely insecure. They hide who they are by acting or with comedy, but they are really all scared people like all of us. We can say what people think about us and say about us doesn't hurt, but it does. It just hurts people differently. Some handle it better than others.

As my original post mentioned, I do not condone what Michael Richards did or said. I think people missed over that one important line in my post.
I am just suggesting that it does me no good to further judge him or hate him, especially when I don't even know him.
And I was also suggesting that even sane, nice people have moments of irrational behavior. Drunk or not, stressed or not, hurt and offended or not ... I venture to guess that we ALL have had some moment in life that we wish we would take back. Don't you?
I sure do, but luckily my moments were not caught on videotape for the whole world to see.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

When most people get angry, they have an arsenal of ugly things to say to another person. The things that are often in your thoughts are what comes OUT when you're angry.

So does that mean that one of my ex-boyfriends really meant that he thought I was a sl*t and a b*tch when we once argued? We still stayed together after the argument. We later split up because we couldn't see us married to once another.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Yes, I know, and some comedians make a career of just doing standup and hopefully playing the big theaters. However, I think most are really looking for that big TV/Movie break. Standup comedy at small clubs is the only way to get discovered. Anyhow, Michael Richards has already paid his dues and hit the big time, but now it seems like he's starting over!

Not true. Jerry did stand up here at a theatre in my town ... yes, after the Seinfeld farewell season. Also, I saw Frank Caleindo at a Casino doing his routine ... a casino in Alton, IL!
And he's big time.

 

[michelle]

Can I throw out a thought: Even though Richards was wrong in his reaction, this scene would not have taken place had the guy not been heckling in the first place. This guy does bear some responsibility for his part. Just my opinion.

So the guy heckled him, big deal thats part of being a comedian. That gives you the right to yell racial slur's? Sorry nan I have to disagree that the guy should bear some responsibility for this.

 

[Nova]

The thing is- I don't think Richards was ever a big-time standup comedian, who worked the large venues. I've read that he did a some standup in the early 80s and then landed gigs on various TV shows.

But that wasn't my point. My point was just that nearly all stand-up comedians continue to try out material in small clubs, that doing so is no reflection on the success of their careers.