Michael "Kramer" Richards - a racist?

[Linda7NJ]

I didn't realize I needed to be so literal in my posts for anyone to get the message.:laugh: Maybe you have the intelligence of a sock with a giant hole in it.

:razz: If I am a big holey sock, you would be a lint ball on that sock

 

[Paladin]

:razz: If I am a big holey sock, you would be a lint ball on that sock

I'm fine with being a lint ball. A lint ball is a diverse entity made of up many pieces of lint, a melting pot, if you will.

 

[Linda7NJ]

And either should anti-semetic remarks. What does is done...but I guess because he had a mic in his hand and he was on TV it's unforgiveable. Some of you need to get over yourselves. I suspect there are an abundance of hypocrites in this thread who decry racism yet would be the first to object if their son or daughter were to date a person of a different race, religion, or creed. Or have that fear in the back of their mind when they're walking through a dark parking lot at night and see a black or hispanic in the vicinity. When is okay to decry hate with hate? Use your brain and try to understand the situation and causes before tipping the scale in either direction. Things are not as easy as labeling someone something and then tossing them away forever. It's not the solution.

This isn't an advocation for racism either. Racism is stupid and ugly, but so is blind intolerance and labelism. Quarterbacking behind a computer screen seems to make some of you invincible while you cast stones.

I will never "tolerate" racism. I prefer to call it what it is. I don't make lame excuses for ignorance. I am very comfortable tossing racists away, I have no place for them in my life, it's enough to know they exist. I like knowing who they are so I can steer clear.

While I can't talk for anyone else posting on this thread, I can say this computer screen has nothing to do what I post or my perceived "invincibility". It's simply how I live MY life.

I can also state I could care less if my child dated someone of another race, religion or creed as long as they were a good person and made my child happy.

I also wouldn't be dumb enough to park my car in a desolate dark parking lot. That has nothing to do with race, it's simply a matter of personal safety.

 

[Paladin]

I am very comfortable tossing racists away, I have no place for them in my life, it's enough to know they exist. I like knowing who they are so I can steer clear.

Would you toss your child away if they called someone a racist name?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Would you toss your child away if they called someone a racist name?

Wouldn't happen, sorry

 

[Paladin]

Wouldn't happen, sorry

You don't know that. I made a question that would make a hypocrite out of you and you bailed out. I'm done here. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[cappuccina]

...the same category...

As far as what I would do if my kids used racist/ethnically offensive remarks...They are 10 and 14, and it would not occur to either of them to do that...Their friends are of all different races, cultures, religions, etc.

They are more like me...if they are angry, they would tell a friend to "shut up" or something like that, and would not bring race or ethnicity into it..

Paladin, when you have young kids using racial epithets and "drawing lines" based on race, ethnicity, or whatever, they are LEARNING THAT AT HOME...And, don't tell me that they're hearing it on the playground, and that's why they are doing it...My kids hear that all the time on the playground, and they do NOT use words like that, nor do they think that one group is better or worse than another, or anything of the kind...

 

[Linda7NJ]

You don't know that. I made a question that would make a hypocrite out of you and you bailed out. I'm done here. Thanks for proving my point.

Your ignorance is showing again.
Cappuccina's post summed it up ...so I will just second her post.

 

[michelle]

It was a lousy choice of words - I don't think anyone feels otherwise.

Men - in anger and frustration - have called me a before, but not every man who has called me a is a wholesale mysogynist. It's not that black and white. And neither is this situation.

Richards may well be a racist, but I'm not willing to dismiss him as such based on this one interaction. If he is truly racist, don't you think some other people would come out of the woodwork with stories of their own. I haven't seen that happen yet and I would hazzard to guess that he has had numerous high-profile interactions with African Americans.

Based on this incident and the other incident where he went off on a women comedian in a deragatory and insulting manner, I would hazzard to say that Richards has anger issues, not necessarily racial anger issues.

Come on he is screaming about 50 years ago what would have been done, what is that supposed to mean? He obviously has anger issues, and racist issues. I am sorry anyone that yells the "N" word like that with such hatred has some MAJOR issues and it was directed in a racist way. JMO

 

[TheShadow]

I just watched the apology on the Letterman show from that youtube link, and I think more than ever after watching that, Richards is bewildered by his own actions. I really think this guy needs some therapy to figure out what happened when he melted down. It's almost like he had some weird sort of "out of body experience" where he was not in control of what was coming out of his mouth. He seems truly confused and ashamed of himself. Get some serious therapy, dude!

 

[windovervocalcords]

You don't know that. I made a question that would make a hypocrite out of you and you bailed out. I'm done here. Thanks for proving my point.

I think you make an interesting point. One of the things I have thought about in regard to this unpleasant incident and its relationship to racism is this:

What would you rather deal with? I would rather have someone call me a slur to my face than to put up with getting discriminated against by some "respectable" bigot who will just keep voting to ensure I do not get my fair share in society.

Racism is instituionalized bigotry. What Richards did was make hateful, bigoted remarks. There is a difference.

Richards also spoke with an implied threat of violence.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I just watched the apology on the Letterman show from that youtube link, and I think more than ever after watching that, Richards is bewildered by his own actions. I really think this guy needs some therapy to figure out what happened when he melted down. It's almost like he had some weird sort of "out of body experience" where he was not in control of what was coming out of his mouth. He seems truly confused and ashamed of himself. Get some serious therapy, dude!

confused and ashamed? Nahhhh, what you saw expressed on his face was the realization that his career is over

 

[Nova]

I agree with hollyjokers; I love reading Bham Mama's post. After reading Nova's info, I think I'll wait and see before I decide what to think about this. This is a great thread.

But why have I thought for months that Nova is an Australian woman? I just saw the Palm Springs ref. Am I losing my mind?

I don't mind being mistaken for an Aussie lass, reporter, but I am an American man. (Also gay, which is relevant to some threads, though not this one.)

ETA: My best friends from grad school are Australian; they came to visit a couple of weeks ago. Maybe it was something I said about them... (I've never been to the Southern Hemisphere.)

 

[GonzoReiter]

I'm not entirely sure what's obvious. Again -- and without saying Richards was right to do so -- I can imagine someone (Jewish or not) being indignant at racism expressed by an African-American and responding in such a manner.

While a lousy choice, I don't see how such a response is necessarily "obvious" proof of racism.

According to Seinfeld and Richards, who are both “mystified by what happened”, it’s like some Blackface Tinkerbell crawled up Richards’ butt and shot him full of that Strom Thurmond fairydust.

IMO, the worst thing about Richards’ apology was that he looked into the camera and said, “I’m not a racist. That’s what’s crazy about this!” For me, when he said this, he looked into the camera and said, “I’ve learned absolutely nothing about myself!”

Everybody’s racist (as well as sexist, homophobic, ageist, etc, etc) to a certain degree. There’s no way to get to rid of it because we, unfortunately, are a xenophobic society. We all have preconceived notions about people and we know, in the darkest regions of our mind, we think racist thoughts once in awhile. If you don’t own your own inner racism and constantly question these thoughts and strive to learn more about other people, you’ll never learn anything and outward racism will persist.

So, for me, Richards’ apology was not good enough because he proved that he learned nothing.

 

[csds703]

According to Seinfeld and Richards, who are both “mystified by what happened”, it’s like some Blackface Tinkerbell crawled up Richards’ butt and shot him full of that Strom Thurmond fairydust.

IMO, the worst thing about Richards’ apology was that he looked into the camera and said, “I’m not a racist. That’s what’s crazy about this!” For me, when he said this, he looked into the camera and said, “I’ve learned absolutely nothing about myself!”

Everybody’s racist (as well as sexist, homophobic, ageist, etc, etc) to a certain degree. There’s no way to get to rid of it because we, unfortunately, are a xenophobic society. We all have preconceived notions about people and we know, in the darkest regions of our mind, we think racist thoughts once in awhile. If you don’t own your own inner racism and constantly question these thoughts and strive to learn more about other people, you’ll never learn anything and outward racism will persist.

So, for me, Richards’ apology was not good enough because he proved that he learned nothing.

That is the funniest comment.

As for the rest of your post, preconcieved notions and intolerance are 2 different issues.

 

[BhamMama]

What's a cracker?

I had heard it a few times in my life but really had no clue, usually in conjunction with Georgia. My husband is from Georgia and he said he was called that growing up. I laughed at him but was clueless lol A lot of things are like that, he says I've lived in a bubble. I had to do some research before I could explain just why it's a slur.

There were quite a few explanations but two were repeated over and over. One was the person who cracked a whip, either a slave owner or foreman. Now that could explain it, but when many, many people were too poor to own slaves, only covered a small minority and I didn't feel that covered the wide spread 'general' use of the word.

The second was really no better for me. From the song Jimmy Crack Corn, poor whites had to crack their own corn, some made liquor from it, hence the song, the slave owner, cracked corn and fell and hit his head, then died, and the slave didn't care. Still didn't cover a huge minority.

I found one that said it was braggart, one that explained that those were folks who resisted assimilation into the dominate culture, one that said it was the job of poor whites cracking nuts. There was also a politital party in Georgia called the Cracker Party, but I didn't research that one.

It really left me a bit confused so I simplified it. He is 8 afterall and most things come down to that hurt your feelings and what is the other person lacking in themselves to hurl hurt? Like I said, I explained what I thought it was and was upfront with him that I didn't understand it either.

I know that was a long winded reply to a simple question, but as I'm finding out, nothing is simple in life lol I've been accused of making things simple before, but I feel that no matter who you are, what comes out of your mouth is a direct relation to something that has either happened to you, you grew up with it, or you believe it. Words have effect like touch. You touch me in anger and I know it, you hurl words at me intended to hurt, I know it.

 

[Nova]

Everybody’s racist (as well as sexist, homophobic, ageist, etc, etc) to a certain degree. There’s no way to get to rid of it because we, unfortunately, are a xenophobic society. We all have preconceived notions about people and we know, in the darkest regions of our mind, we think racist thoughts once in awhile. If you don’t own your own inner racism and constantly question these thoughts and strive to learn more about other people, you’ll never learn anything and outward racism will persist.

I completely agree with you (and have implied as much pages ago), Gonzo. I'd even go further and say we are a xenophobic species.

But there's "racist" in the sense you mean, and there's "racist" in the sense most posters have used it in this thread, meaning a person so consumed with racism that he is filled with hatred of a group and advocates mistreatment of its members.

I don't agree that Richards' outburst, as the context has been explained to me, is ipso facto proof that Richards is the latter. (This is not to deny he made a stupid performance choice, as subsequent events have shown.)

As for his apology, I'm sure he has been advised strongly to act contrite and get "help," so that he can later be "redeemed" in the public eye. No point in trying to explain the nuances of satire and onstage improvisation (as this thread clearly demonstrates).

 

[Nova]

I had heard it a few times in my life but really had no clue, usually in conjunction with Georgia.

As a kid in Florida, Mama, I commonly heard the term used by whites to mean "redneck" - long before I ever heard African-Americans use it. It was clearly derogatory, but where I lived, it was used mostly in jest between friends. (Probably because, historically, South Florida didn't have a large "yeoman" class (i.e., small farmers and tenant farmers).)

 

[BhamMama]

As a kid in Florida, Mama, I commonly heard the term used by whites to mean "redneck" - long before I ever heard African-Americans use it. It was clearly derogatory, but where I lived, it was used mostly in jest between friends. (Probably because, historically, South Florida didn't have a large "yeoman" class (i.e., small farmers and tenant farmers).)

But isn't redneck another term? Meaning one who works in the sun and has a red neck, since the poor had to do the work themselves? I don't take exception to that term as it's meant to be, but as we know, things are not always meant the same as you think them to be. Maybe they all just cover poor whites? This subject makes my head spin. I just know they aint funny and they aint nice....by anyone for any reason.

I agree that I don't think this made Richards a bad man, just ignorant maybe.

I also agree that the men in the crowd shouldn't have uttered hurtful things either. But I dont agree with meeting kind with kind. I usually turn the other cheek. Or as my mamaw said, be a bigger person by being the one with sense lol

 

[Nova]

But isn't redneck another term? Meaning one who works in the sun and has a red neck, since the poor had to do the work themselves? I don't take exception to that term as it's meant to be, but as we know, things are not always meant the same as you think them to be. Maybe they all just cover poor whites? This subject makes my head spin. I just know they aint funny and they aint nice....by anyone for any reason.

I agree that I don't think this made Richards a bad man, just ignorant maybe.

I also agree that the men in the crowd shouldn't have uttered hurtful things either. But I dont agree with meeting kind with kind. I usually turn the other cheek. Or as my mamaw said, be a bigger person by being the one with sense lol

Well put (as usual). "Redneck" and "cracker" may have meant different things in the past or in other areas of the South. In my experience, both were used by whites to mean "poor white trash." The African-American usage may be somewhat different.

Calling an economically disadvantaged person a "cracker" or "redneck" is certainly offensive. My calling my friend a "redneck" because he prefers Chicken-fried steak to Shrimp Florentine is simply facetious.