Michelle Young, pregnant mom, murdered Part 18

[jake]

RC

Either the N&O or Dr Butts and the whole NCME office has been smoking something. According to the official report , Dr Greene, Bill Holloman(photographer) and Kevin Gerity (facility manager) where present during the actual autopsy. I am sure Dr Clark consulted with Greene to compile the report, as he was the one who signed and released it. In fact, I met him in The NCME office and i had assumed he performed the autopsy as well. WRAL removed the autopsy report link from their web page ?

Whoa, Barney, calm down. Accusing someone of smoking dope is pretty serious, even on a message board. I just want you to know that my poison pen is capped....just in case someone sends your post on.

Maybe you should drop this whole thing. Maybe Dr. Clark told his boss he examined the body while actually he was somewhere else. No need to get someone into trouble.

No reply is necessary, Barney. Let's drop it and move on.

--Jake

 

[Barney Fife]

snipped from N&O++++++++

Sarah Ovaska, Staff Writer
RALEIGH - A thorough examination to look for evidence of a sexual assault or encounter was not performed on Michelle Young, a November murder victim from southern Wake County whose killing has gone unsolved for six months.

Crime scene investigators with Wake's City-County Bureau of Identification requested that a pathologist use a sexual assault kit when they brought Young's body to the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in Chapel Hill, said CCBI's director Sam Pennica on Friday. CCBI is responsible for collecting evidence at Wake County crime scenes.
But pathologist Thomas B. Clark III, who conducted the autopsy, did not perform the sexual assault test, said Dr. John D. Butts, the state's chief medical examiner. Butts said he did not know why Clark decided not to conduct the test, but that Clark did look for bruising, tears or other signs of a rape and found no injuries.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Never mind, Barney. Now I see who Ms. ovaska is.

--Jake

If Dr Clark did this examination, the autopsy report inaccurately described who was present. I will tell you the hand written notes on the diagrams were written by Dr Greene. This appears to be the same handwriting that was on the 2 page cover sheet Report of Investigation . If you order the report on line, the ME office will mail the official report and it will include this as well. Sorry, it tells you nothing other than the basic details of the death and the time and place the body was transfered to the NCME office, ect.

Dr Greene was a 3rd year Pathology resident and not on the NCME staff.
"The trainee performs approximately 250 forensic autopsies during the course of the one-year fellowship. These cases represent a wide spectrum of natural and traumatic causes of death. All autopsy examinations are performed under the supervision of the OCME staff, which consists of 4 full-time, board-certified forensic pathologists. The fellow is expected to manage his/her own cases and to seek assistance as needed."

 

[Barney Fife]

If you want to see the REPORT OF INVESTIGATION in addition to the report, you can request and they will mail .
http://www.ocme.unc.edu/docrequest.shtml

 

[scandi]

"Hindering"? Maybe slightly. But I don't think LE needs to clear him before investigating other possibilities. Do you?

Unfortunately, I think this has happened. I believe LE's tunnel vision has hindered their investigation. Jason is not to blame for this.

--Jake

I don't think other avenues of investigatiion would have anything to do with clearing the husband. When LE has proof that the husband had neither the motive, means nor opportunity to comit the crime he will be cleared.

What if LE has found nothing that points to someone other than the husband here? If every avenue they explore leads back to him, it could be everything is resting on Jason's shoulders. I don't think they had tunnelvision at all. You think because right off the bat they looked strongly at him that is tunnelvision. We don't know what they learned right away, but there must have been strong evidence as to which direction it looked like the hunt for the killer was going to lead.

 

[Scout]

If Dr Clark did this examination, the autopsy report inaccurately described who was present. I will tell you the hand written notes on the diagrams were written by Dr Greene. This appears to be the same handwriting that was on the 2 page cover sheet Report of Investigation . If you order the report on line, the ME office will mail the official report and it will include this as well. Sorry, it tells you nothing other than the basic details of the death and the time and place the body was transfered to the NCME office, ect.

Dr Greene was a 3rd year Pathology resident and not on the NCME staff.
"The trainee performs approximately 250 forensic autopsies during the course of the one-year fellowship. These cases represent a wide spectrum of natural and traumatic causes of death. All autopsy examinations are performed under the supervision of the OCME staff, which consists of 4 full-time, board-certified forensic pathologists. The fellow is expected to manage his/her own cases and to seek assistance as needed."

I tend to believe your information, Barney. The article written by Ms. Ovaska does not quote Dr. Butts as stating that Dr. Clark personally performed or was present for the autopsy. Every statement that specifically names Dr. Clark is paraphrasing by the reporter. I'm thinking it may be an erroneous conclusion drawn by both Lamb and Ovaska based on Clark's signature on the AR.

 

[jake]

snipped+++++++++++++++

I don't think other avenues of investigatiion would have anything to do with clearing the husband. When LE has proof that the husband had neither the motive, means nor opportunity to comit the crime he will be cleared.

What if LE has found nothing that points to someone other than the husband here? If every avenue they explore leads back to him, it could be everything is resting on Jason's shoulders. I don't think they had tunnelvision at all.

You think because right off the bat they looked strongly at him that is tunnelvision. We don't know what they learned right away, but there must have been strong evidence as to which direction it looked like the hunt for the killer was going to lead.

++++++++++++++++++++++

No, Scandi, you're wrong about what I think. In six months, I think LE has not looked closely at anyone other than Jason. I have reason to doubt LE even knows other names of people who could be involved. That is tunnel vision.

--Jake

 

[Barney Fife]

snipped+++++++++++++++

I don't think other avenues of investigatiion would have anything to do with clearing the husband. When LE has proof that the husband had neither the motive, means nor opportunity to comit the crime he will be cleared.

What if LE has found nothing that points to someone other than the husband here? If every avenue they explore leads back to him, it could be everything is resting on Jason's shoulders. I don't think they had tunnelvision at all.

You think because right off the bat they looked strongly at him that is tunnelvision. We don't know what they learned right away, but there must have been strong evidence as to which direction it looked like the hunt for the killer was going to lead.

++++++++++++++++++++++

No, Scandi, you're wrong about what I think. In six months, I think LE has not looked closely at anyone other than Jason. I have reason to doubt LE even knows other names of people who could be involved. That is tunnel vision.

--Jake

LE has interviewed 100's of people for leads and they have plenty of names. They just know from the evidence they could not be involved. Why is that tunnel vision ?

 

[raisincharlie]

snipped+++++++++++++++



LE has interviewed 100's of people for leads and they have plenty of names. They just know from the evidence they could not be involved. Why is that tunnel vision ?

Barney,

From the video I watched, it appears DA Holt agrees with you - no tunnel vision. Jason remains on the list of potentials because of his own choices. LE has been refused the ability to talk with him, even his lawyer refuses to comment, therefore Jason has refused to assist in clearing himself from that list. As we have heard so many times - that is his right. The only tunnel vision going on in this case exists elsewhere IMO.

 

[spring]

snipped+++++++++++++++

I don't think other avenues of investigatiion would have anything to do with clearing the husband. When LE has proof that the husband had neither the motive, means nor opportunity to comit the crime he will be cleared.

What if LE has found nothing that points to someone other than the husband here? If every avenue they explore leads back to him, it could be everything is resting on Jason's shoulders. I don't think they had tunnelvision at all.

You think because right off the bat they looked strongly at him that is tunnelvision. We don't know what they learned right away, but there must have been strong evidence as to which direction it looked like the hunt for the killer was going to lead.

++++++++++++++++++++++

No, Scandi, you're wrong about what I think. In six months, I think LE has not looked closely at anyone other than Jason. I have reason to doubt LE even knows other names of people who could be involved. That is tunnel vision.

--Jake

LE has been reading your junk since you first arrived, i assure you. so you do the math. how many months now have they heard about Meredith and her boyfriend? maybe if you quit posting in riddles and get to the point quicker, they could investigate all the leads you have. :doh:

 

[jake]

snipped+++++++++++++++



LE has interviewed 100's of people for leads and they have plenty of names. They just know from the evidence they could not be involved. Why is that tunnel vision ?

"Interviewed"? I'm talking about searching. I have yet to see any search warrant returned and filed for any person other than Jason and MM.

I have a list of people I would search if I were LE. Search as in search warrant for homes, computers, autos, offices, etc. I believe I could convince a judge or magistrate to issue warrants for these people. No, I will not list names.

Is it possible these people were searched without a warrant because they cooperated? Anything is possible....but I doubt it. I doubt LE even has some of these names and locations. LE is not interested since they know who killed Michelle.

--Jake

 

[happy2bn10ec]

"Interviewed"? I'm talking about searching. I have yet to see any search warrant returned and filed for any person other than Jason and MM.

I have a list of people I would search if I were LE. Search as in search warrant for homes, computers, autos, offices, etc. I believe I could convince a judge or magistrate to issue warrants for these people. No, I will not list names.

Is it possible these people were searched without a warrant because they cooperated? Anything is possible....but I doubt it. I doubt LE even has some of these names and locations. LE is not interested since they know who killed Michelle.

--Jake

Finally, Jake, something I can agree on with you!

I think LE knows who killed Michelle, too.

 

[scandi]

Barney,

From the video I watched, it appears DA Holt agrees with you - no tunnel vision. Jason remains on the list of potentials because of his own choices. LE has been refused the ability to talk with him, even his lawyer refuses to comment, therefore Jason has refused to assist in clearing himself from that list. As we have heard so many times - that is his right. The only tunnel vision going on in this case exists elsewhere IMO.

LOL
This is exactly what I was trying to get across Charlie. You made it so simple in just a few words!

Is the morgue where Michelle was taken in Chappel Hill? I have read this Dr Groene performs 250 autopsies a year and his chosen field is ME frorensic pathology. He is a regular doctor who is just not yet board certified.

What does that really matter. I think part of being board certified would involve overseeng procedures, taking responsibility for work done, decisions made and teaching. Does any of that really play into doing a great job in performing the autopsy itself?

Scandi

PS: I have to say I have always been touched by the role of the forensic pathologist on CSI Miami, who performs the autopsies. She treats the bodies as though they are in her special care, with empathy and a bit of tenderness. It is how I would hope every doctor is who performs autopsies.

 

[Scout]

"Interviewed"? I'm talking about searching. I have yet to see any search warrant returned and filed for any person other than Jason and MM.

I have a list of people I would search if I were LE. Search as in search warrant for homes, computers, autos, offices, etc. I believe I could convince a judge or magistrate to issue warrants for these people. No, I will not list names.

Is it possible these people were searched without a warrant because they cooperated? Anything is possible....but I doubt it. I doubt LE even has some of these names and locations. LE is not interested since they know who killed Michelle.

--Jake

Can you at least tell us, in a straightforward manner, what it is about these people that causes you to suspect them, Jake?

 

[raisincharlie]

LOL
This is exactly what I ws trying to get across Charlie. You made it so simple in just a few words!

Is the morgue where Michelle was taken in Chappel Hill? I have read this Dr Groene performs 250 autopsies a year and his chosen field is ME frorensic pathology. He is a regular doctor who is just not yet board certified.

What does that really matter. I think part of being board certified would involve overseeng procedures, taking responsibility for work done, decisions made and teaching. Does any of that really play into doing a great job in performing the autopsy itself?

Scandi

PS: I have to say I have always been touched by the role of the forensic pathologist on CSI Miami, who performs the autopsies. She treats the bodies as though they are in her special care, with empathy and a bit of tenderness. It is how I would hope every doctor is who performs autopsies.

Scandi,

Not meaning to avoid your questions but I do believe the ME's office is indeed in Chapel Hill. As to the Doctor - I suspect Barney would have a better answer for you. I think he posted a link above about Dr. Green.

As to the search warrants - because one hasn't seen a single warrant issued to anyone other than Jy and MM - doesn't mean they don't exist despite one's protestations and all knowingness. These warrants would not have been forwarded to Jy's lawyer for perusal. The warrants may not be returned or they may be sealed. Despite Jy having a lawyer - it doesn't mean said lawyer is privy to any warrants issued to other persons.

 

[jake]

Can you at least tell us, in a straightforward manner, what it is about these people that causes you to suspect them, Jake?

If I did that, Scout, it would be the same as naming them.

--Jake

 

[Scout]

If I did that, Scout, it would be the same as naming them.

--Jake

How about a PM then? I'm genuinely interested, Jake.

 

[Barney Fife]

LOL
This is exactly what I was trying to get across Charlie. You made it so simple in just a few words!

Is the morgue where Michelle was taken in Chappel Hill? I have read this Dr Groene performs 250 autopsies a year and his chosen field is ME frorensic pathology. He is a regular doctor who is just not yet board certified.

What does that really matter. I think part of being board certified would involve overseeng procedures, taking responsibility for work done, decisions made and teaching. Does any of that really play into doing a great job in performing the autopsy itself?

Scandi

PS: I have to say I have always been touched by the role of the forensic pathologist on CSI Miami, who performs the autopsies. She treats the bodies as though they are in her special care, with empathy and a bit of tenderness. It is how I would hope every doctor is who performs autopsies.

Scandi,

Since the manner of death was obvious (head trauma / no accident), the autopsy was not especially critical. Counting and documenting severe wounds could be done by a registered nurse quite well. Where Dr Greene dropped the ball was not doing the requested rape kit. However, at the end of the day, I think this will prove to be a non-issue just like the "tooth". Wake County will seat an impartial jury not divided by race and they will focus on the important evidence that the DA uses to show the killer did this beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[scandi]

I wish you would run this by Scout Jake. She is so studied on the case and pragmatic about crime. That is a person I would trust ;}

 

[Barney Fife]

If I did that, Scout, it would be the same as naming them.

--Jake

Accusing an innocent person of murder on a public board would cause you trouble. I understand your reluctance Jake.

 

[Scout]

I wish you would run this by Scout Jake. She is so studied on the case and pragmatic about crime. That is a person I would trust ;}

I'm surprised and flattered by your compliment, Scandi. Thank you!