Michelle Young: Pregnant Mom, NC. part 7

[Scout]

I'm thinking that JY may have taken out a loan against one or both of the life insurance policies -- a loan that he didn't want MY to know about. Could be some kind of addiction that he was supporting -- gambling or more likely than drugs, imo.

 

[strach304]

My daughter just let me know that you can send a fax via cell phone now as well. Laptop was a logical conclusion for me but the cell phone is also an option as well since several were seized.

 

[close_enough]

i feel bad for the Fisher family...what a lousey Christmas this must be for them

 

[raisincharlie]

Merry Christmas everyone !!!


For those of you who gets MSNBC - today they are running their documentary style series "Crime & Punishment" Don't know if you have ever seen this but it is excellent. Shows real cases and how Deputy DAs investigate plan and chart the course of trial, and even how they sit down and attempt to figure out the defense approach to the trial (yes they really do this). An extremely real look as nothing is re-enacted, these cases are filmed as are at the time they occur. Fascinating series. Might provide some insight as to how things are done.

 

[panthera]

Hope everyone here had a VERY Merry Christmas!!! I was thinking of little Cassidy yesterday morning unwrapping her presents from Santa ~ without her Mom being there.

Let's continue to pray that LE solves this and makes an arrest soon, for Cassidy.

 

[panthera]

Merry Christmas everyone !!!


For those of you who gets MSNBC - today they are running their documentary style series "Crime & Punishment" Don't know if you have ever seen this but it is excellent. Shows real cases and how Deputy DAs investigate plan and chart the course of trial, and even how they sit down and attempt to figure out the defense approach to the trial (yes they really do this). An extremely real look as nothing is re-enacted, these cases are filmed as are at the time they occur. Fascinating series. Might provide some insight as to how things are done.

Thanks charlie, and I did see a couple of those last night. It was a good series! The last one I saw was Delia Contreras case, which I'd also seen before.

 

[otto]

Merry Christmas everyone !!!


For those of you who gets MSNBC - today they are running their documentary style series "Crime & Punishment" Don't know if you have ever seen this but it is excellent. Shows real cases and how Deputy DAs investigate plan and chart the course of trial, and even how they sit down and attempt to figure out the defense approach to the trial (yes they really do this). An extremely real look as nothing is re-enacted, these cases are filmed as are at the time they occur. Fascinating series. Might provide some insight as to how things are done.

I am related to an assistant chief crown prosecutor (I suppose that would be like a fairly senior DA in the States). I seem to recall that there would be a working theory and then all the evidence was examined through that lens. The working theory always depended on some fact or detail that didn't add up. There were obvious oddities with JY right away, especially the "fax" or "print out". That followed with more oddities, many of which we have discussed. For example, suppose JY is guilty and suppose he was willing to be interviewed by the police. The tape of that interview would be examined by everyone (probably separately) in terms of body language, responses to questions and especially for tiny little inconsistencies in responses. The team would then discuss their ideas together. Defense theories have to be considered. It's just like giving a lecture and anticipating the questions so as to have a quick, articulate response. Stings were very carefully and uniquely masterminded, depending on the suspect, to "seduce" the suspect into a trust situation where they would make a mistake - not necessarily a confession. Most importantly, nothing of the case would be discussed in advance for fear of leaks ... because leaks tip off the suspect.

 

[panthera]

I'm thinking that JY may have taken out a loan against one or both of the life insurance policies -- a loan that he didn't want MY to know about. Could be some kind of addiction that he was supporting -- gambling or more likely than drugs, imo.

I recall that the gambling was mentioned very early on in this case, but not confirmed? If Jason did this crime, I think it was the result of Michelle finding out something, perhaps even that night during the phone call. In other words, for him, divorce wasn't an option. (Just my opinion, if he's guilty).

 

[otto]

I recall that the gambling was mentioned very early on in this case, but not confirmed? If Jason did this crime, I think it was the result of Michelle finding out something, perhaps even that night during the phone call. In other words, for him, divorce wasn't an option. (Just my opinion, if he's guilty).

The gambling theory, if I recall correctly, was suggested early on by someone that claimed to be close to the investigation. It keeps circulating so maybe there is something to it. Maybe Jason liked online gambling and there was evidence of it on the harddrives.

I keep trying to figure out what it was about the insurance policies. Maybe someone can answer this for me ... I know a few financial wizards and they make sure that all of their loans are insured - so if one person dies, all debt is automatically cleared. Is that common or is this something that financial-type people put in place because they are conscientious about managing all possible financial outcomes? I'm wondering whether Jason benefited in several ways through insurance such that his cars and house were automatically paid for and he would receive a hefty settlement.

 

[raisincharlie]

The gambling theory, if I recall correctly, was suggested early on by someone that claimed to be close to the investigation. It keeps circulating so maybe there is something to it. Maybe Jason liked online gambling and there was evidence of it on the harddrives.

I keep trying to figure out what it was about the insurance policies. Maybe someone can answer this for me ... I know a few financial wizards and they make sure that all of their loans are insured - so if one person dies, all debt is automatically cleared. Is that common or is this something that financial-type people put in place because they are conscientious about managing all possible financial outcomes? I'm wondering whether Jason benefited in several ways through insurance such that his cars and house were automatically paid for and he would receive a hefty settlement.

It is fairly common to have such insurance added to a loan for a house or car. In the event of death the loan would be paid in full and the beneficiary gets the goods free and clear, except for taxes of course. This is available to anyone and usually lenders try to sell this with the loan. Doesn't add much to monthly costs actually and is as common as an extended warranty. These functions would provide no pay out in terms of dollar settlements to the beneficiary - only material gain. Life insurance policies would provide the monetary payout.

 

[otto]

It is fairly common to have such insurance added to a loan for a house or car. In the event of death the loan would be paid in full and the beneficiary gets the goods free and clear, except for taxes of course. This is available to anyone and usually lenders try to sell this with the loan. Doesn't add much to monthly costs actually and is as common as an extended warranty. These functions would provide no pay out in terms of dollar settlements to the beneficiary - only material gain. Life insurance policies would provide the monetary payout.

Thanks. I recall that the Peterson house did not have that type of insurance because there was still a lot of talk about the mortgage after Laci died.

Anyway, I think I recall that Michelle and Jason had not owned their current house all that long and they also jointly owned another house that Jason previously owned with a roommate prior to marriage. Michelle's death could mean clearing an awful lot of debt ... especially if the homes were heavily mortgaged. It wouldn't surprise me that everything was heavily mortgaged because one other thing I know about financial wizards is that they like to live well using other people's money. If Jason liquidates, the properties alone to amount to half a million.

Given the fact that Cassidy is alive (and would have also been alive if the car accident caused Michelle's death as well), I wonder how the insurance policies tie into Cassidy. Is it also possible that Michelle had some sort of substantial inheritance or money from some other source that was earmarked for Cassidy's care in the even that something happened to Michelle - but how would it work that Jason would benefit only if Cassidy was alive?

 

[raisincharlie]

I'm sort of thinking it is possible that MY is the one who changed her insurance or will leaving everything to Cassidy under an executor other than JY - just a theory, to reitierate another post - something happened 3 to 4 months before MY was murdered. (JY takes job requiring him to be gone 3 to 4 days a week, JY starts relationship with close MY friend = IMO JY was distancing himself prior to this murder). Anyway, if this is the case the only way JY benefits is to try and change it back without MY knowing it...perhaps MY changing her insurance or will would look questionable to police, perhaps JY trying to change it back may also look questionable. Just a thought on why it would be important for Cassidy to remain alive - if JY becomes executor.

Selling the real estate would no doubt bring a nice amount of money although the Birchleaf residence might be significantly devalued given the events (known brutal death) that have transpired within. JMO

P.S. I think the problem with the Peterson house was Mom and Pop claiming thay loaned SP money for or against the house and of course they wanted that back.

 

[panthera]

I'm sort of thinking it is possible that MY is the one who changed her insurance or will leaving everything to Cassidy under an executor other than JY - just a theory, to reitierate another post - something happened 3 to 4 months before MY was murdered. (JY takes job requiring him to be gone 3 to 4 days a week, JY starts relationship with close MY friend = IMO JY was distancing himself prior to this murder). Anyway, if this is the case the only way JY benefits is to try and change it back without MY knowing it...perhaps MY changing her insurance or will would look questionable to police, perhaps JY trying to change it back may also look questionable. Just a thought on why it would be important for Cassidy to remain alive - if JY becomes executor.

Selling the real estate would no doubt bring a nice amount of money although the Birchleaf residence might be significantly devalued given the events (known brutal death) that have transpired within. JMO

Since they'd just moved into that house, I don't see an increase in value at all if it was to be sold now - not even taking into consideration the murder which took place there and has to be disclosed in the potential sale. What he would gain from would be a trust fund set up in Cassidy's name if he has custody of Cassidy (similar to the Simpson case). So if there's an insurance policy on Michelle which names Cassidy as the beneficiary then that money would go into Cassidy's trust, of which he would be the trustee since Cassidy is only 2 years old. Just my thoughts ~

 

[otto]

Since they'd just moved into that house, I don't see an increase in value at all if it was to be sold now - not even taking into consideration the murder which took place there and has to be disclosed in the potential sale. What he would gain from would be a trust fund set up in Cassidy's name if he has custody of Cassidy (similar to the Simpson case). So if there's an insurance policy on Michelle which names Cassidy as the beneficiary then that money would go into Cassidy's trust, of which he would be the trustee since Cassidy is only 2 years old. Just my thoughts ~

I was thinking about that too, but if Cassidy died with Michelle, then maybe everything of hers would revert to Jason ... unless it was something set up by Michelles side of the family and everything would revert to Cassidy's cousins or other near relatives.

 

[raisincharlie]

Since they'd just moved into that house, I don't see an increase in value at all if it was to be sold now - not even taking into consideration the murder which took place there and has to be disclosed in the potential sale. What he would gain from would be a trust fund set up in Cassidy's name if he has custody of Cassidy (similar to the Simpson case). So if there's an insurance policy on Michelle which names Cassidy as the beneficiary then that money would go into Cassidy's trust, of which he would be the trustee since Cassidy is only 2 years old. Just my thoughts ~

Panthera

JY doesn't automatically become the executor - MY could name the executor as easily as she could name the beneficiary. I think it is possible MY cut JY out all together.

As to the house on Birchleaf - I believe it would be significantly devalued due to the nature of the crime. Perhaps I did not spit that our right in the post you responded to.

 

[scandi]

Hi Otto,

I'm wondering if legally Michelle could change the policy to another beneficiary when she was still married to JY. I don't know if NC is a community property state.

Also, we had head the rumor of their seperation and possible divorce from a friend that posted at CTV. We don't know if this is true, but if it was the case, possibly action had already been started. I think the night before she was killed was the evening JY made his initial move out of the house with some of his posessions.

Scandi

 

[panthera]

Panthera

JY doesn't automatically become the executor - MY could name the executor as easily as she could name the beneficiary. I think it is possible MY cut JY out all together.

As to the house on Birchleaf - I believe it would be significantly devalued due to the nature of the crime. Perhaps I did not spit that our right in the post you responded to.

Yes, I understood you, but was also saying that the house wouldn't have increased in value in such a short time, irregardless of the murder ~ so yes, it would have significant depreciation now. Perhaps Michelle was going to change the executor, or planned to take Jason out of control of her estate, or even file for a divorce, which required him to "get rid of her" now? I still would like to know more about that auto accident last spring, and if that was an attempt to kill her back then?

I do, however think that something happened that particular night which led to the murder.

 

[raisincharlie]

Yes, I understood you, but was also saying that the house wouldn't have increased in value in such a short time, irregardless of the murder ~ so yes, it would have significant depreciation now. Perhaps Michelle was going to change the executor, or planned to take Jason out of control of her estate, or even file for a divorce, which required him to "get rid of her" now? I still would like to know more about that auto accident last spring, and if that was an attempt to kill her back then?

I do, however think that something happened that particular night which led to the murder.

I'm thinking MY was getting real close to dumping his sorry self all together. JMO.

I don't know about that accident - LE was sure interested in it for some reason, but I do recall in one of the media links a short interview with the officer that originally investigated it who said he found nothing suspicious just an accident. Gotta wonder what made LE go look at that so quickly however...

ETA - interesting link about divorce settlements in NC

http://www.rosen.com/propertydistribution/

"Another thing that can affect an ED claim is whether both parties survive. The time of a spouse's death can make a critical difference in the viability of a pending ED action. The death of a spouse prior to the granting of an absolute divorce, but while the ED claim is pending, will bar ED. However, the death of the spouse following the grant of divorce while an ED claim is pending will not bar ED. In such a case, the administrator or executor of the decedent's estate and any heirs whose interests would be affected by the ED action must be joined in the pending action. If the heirs are not joined, then any order of sale of real property is void as to those heirs."

 

[panthera]

I'm thinking MY was getting real close to dumping his sorry self all together. JMO.

I don't know about that accident - LE was sure interested in it for some reason, but I do recall in one of the media links a short interview with the officer that originally investigated it who said he found nothing suspicious just an accident. Gotta wonder what made LE go look at that so quickly however...

ETA - interesting link about divorce settlements in NC

http://www.rosen.com/propertydistribution/

"Another thing that can affect an ED claim is whether both parties survive. The time of a spouse's death can make a critical difference in the viability of a pending ED action. The death of a spouse prior to the granting of an absolute divorce, but while the ED claim is pending, will bar ED. However, the death of the spouse following the grant of divorce while an ED claim is pending will not bar ED. In such a case, the administrator or executor of the decedent's estate and any heirs whose interests would be affected by the ED action must be joined in the pending action. If the heirs are not joined, then any order of sale of real property is void as to those heirs."

Thank you charlie for posting the link; although I'm in NC, I haven't studied divorce law (fortunately ). I will agree with you that Michelle might even have found out about Jason and her friend's relationship and wouldn't think that would meet with her approval either.

 

[otto]

Hi Otto,

I'm wondering if legally Michelle could change the policy to another beneficiary when she was still married to JY. I don't know if NC is a community property state.

Also, we had head the rumor of their seperation and possible divorce from a friend that posted at CTV. We don't know if this is true, but if it was the case, possibly action had already been started. I think the night before she was killed was the evening JY made his initial move out of the house with some of his posessions.

Scandi

I'm currently single and I like to remain a little bit ignorant about all the financial workings of things, so I'm not up to speed on all this stuff. When I was divorced, I was still the recipient of insurance policies with my ex because of our children. There must be some sort of complicated paperwork that can be done where a non-spouse is the executor of at least some part of insurance policies to provide for someone other than the spouse.

If the insurance policies were to go to Michelle's sister to manage a trust fund for Cassidy, then Jason needs Cassidy alive. Maybe Michelle never expected that Jason could or would parent Cassidy. He can still justify all sorts of expenses for Cassidy, such as room and board and benefit personally from it.