Michelle Young: Pregnant Mom, NC. part 8

[otto]

I guess we can look at the fact that Cassidy hasn't been w/the Fishers in a different light. It might actually help during a trial that she wasn't with the Fishers. The defense could easily say the Fishers "reprogrammed" Cassidy against her father if she was with the Fishers for unsupervised, extended periods.

In the meantime, the 'mommy' in me is feeling her pain and hopes that she can see the other part of her family soon and start getting some help.

I still think that 911 tape is critical to this case.

I really don't think the courts can consider the words of a 2 year old under any circumstances. It's very easy for children to say one thing and mean another. Also, children in stressful situations do sometimes mention the person closest to them without understanding the implications.

 

[otto]

I think this thought is further supported by the fact that the warrant released by the press on 22 December makes it very plain that JY and family returned to Raleigh on the 3rd. It seems reasonable that Cassidy would have been "collected" at that time.

The thing I do not understand in any way shape or form is how on earth JY's side of the family could find any reasonable explanation for condoning this heartless behavior- except for the potential of what Cassidy may have told. JMO

Jason is in mourning, as is his daughter. There are just the two of them right now and their entire lives have been turned upside down. It is possible that they just want to take the time to recover emotionally. If Jason is innocent, everything that is going on around him must be extremely stressul and if he suspects that Michelle's family believes he had something to do with her murder, then he would not want anything to do with them. It's quite possible that Jason wants to do the best for his daughter and that, in his opinion, it is important for her to keep a very simple life. If indeed there was limited contact between Cassidy and her maternal grandmother while Michelle was alive, it would actually seem a little odd if the grandmother suddenly wanted to spend a lot of time with her ... not from the grandmother's position, but from Cassidy's position. Another thing to consider is Linda's emotional state right now. If she is really distressed, maybe it would be confusing and upsetting for Cassidy.

I think Meredith is a different situation because she lived close to Michelle and would have seen Cassidy fairly regularly. Unfortunately, Meredith has to maintain her life and responsibilities, so she can't really pack up and visit Brevard on a regular basis ... but she should make the effort. I have to wonder what would happen if she went to Brevard and just stopped in for a visit ... would Jason tell her to leave, or would he invite her in.

 

[panthera]

I really don't think the courts can consider the words of a 2 year old under any circumstances. It's very easy for children to say one thing and mean another. Also, children in stressful situations do sometimes mention the person closest to them without understanding the implications.

I think the tape of the 911 call could still be played in court and let the jury draw their own conclusions? But you're right as far as Cassidy actually making a "statement" to the court.

 

[panthera]

Yes Bee Charmer, that's it, "excited utterances." IF Cassidy said what we think she did on those 911 tapes, LE already knows what happened. The unfortunate thing, in this day and age, is juries generally want 'dna' type evidence. I believe that's what LE is doing now, gathering any 'dna' and phone records and computer evidence.

IMHO, if JY did this, his days as a free man are numbered. He's not smart enough to have completely covered his tracks. After all, the having his SIL going to his home for a FAX is too obvious, IMHO. :slap:

JMHO
fran

I agree fran. A 2-year old can't testify in court so LE needs other evidence to nail Jason, if indeed he's the perp. I'm sure that there is a slip-up somewhere along the line and LE will find it. The perfect crime has yet to be committed and that's why there's no statute of limitations on murder.

 

[Taximom]

Jason is in mourning, as is his daughter. There are just the two of them right now and their entire lives have been turned upside down. It is possible that they just want to take the time to recover emotionally. If Jason is innocent, everything that is going on around him must be extremely stressul and if he suspects that Michelle's family believes he had something to do with her murder, then he would not want anything to do with them. It's quite possible that Jason wants to do the best for his daughter and that, in his opinion, it is important for her to keep a very simple life. If indeed there was limited contact between Cassidy and her maternal grandmother while Michelle was alive, it would actually seem a little odd if the grandmother suddenly wanted to spend a lot of time with her ... not from the grandmother's position, but from Cassidy's position. Another thing to consider is Linda's emotional state right now. If she is really distressed, maybe it would be confusing and upsetting for Cassidy.

I think Meredith is a different situation because she lived close to Michelle and would have seen Cassidy fairly regularly. Unfortunately, Meredith has to maintain her life and responsibilities, so she can't really pack up and visit Brevard on a regular basis ... but she should make the effort. I have to wonder what would happen if she went to Brevard and just stopped in for a visit ... would Jason tell her to leave, or would he invite her in.

Otto, with all due respect, you have to be kidding me!:doh: Are you just playing devil's advocate? Jason should be out searching for the murderer of his wife and unborn child if he's innocent. And meeting with anyone and everyone to help do that! Mourning. Pleh.

Although I do like the idea of the Fishers making a trip to Brevard to see what would happen. I can bet you Cassidy wouldn't be allowed a visit with them alone.

 

[Scout]

Fran,

Since you broached the subject of "excited utterances", I thought perhaps a look at the topic might be in order. Kind of a long read but worth it (sorry the pdf will not allow copying of a section but the summary alone is worth the read):

http://www.opencrs.com/rpts/RL33195_20051214.pdf

After skimming the linked report, I am more inclined to believe that it's possible that whatever Cassidy told WCS officials may be admissable in court. Whether it would qualify as an excited utterance, I'm not sure. However, her statements may be excluded from the hearsay rule if they were a determining factor in securing initial search warrants. I suppose that depends on whether or not Jason's attorney tries to use the "LE rush-to-judgment" argument.

ETA: The above is layman's opinion only. I have no legal training.

 

[otto]

I think the tape of the 911 call could still be played in court and let the jury draw their own conclusions? But you're right as far as Cassidy actually making a "statement" to the court.

It might be argued that the tape is prejudicial because of the uncertainty regarding what Cassidy says. Even if the tape is enhanced, it once again appears as though a 2 year old is testifying.

 

[panthera]

It might be argued that the tape is prejudicial because of the uncertainty regarding what Cassidy says. Even if the tape is enhanced, it once again appears as though a 2 year old is testifying.

I got it, and thanks for the reply!

 

[otto]

Otto, with all due respect, you have to be kidding me!:doh: Are you just playing devil's advocate? Jason should be out searching for the murderer of his wife and unborn child if he's innocent. And meeting with anyone and everyone to help do that! Mourning. Pleh.

Although I do like the idea of the Fishers making a trip to Brevard to see what would happen. I can bet you Cassidy wouldn't be allowed a visit with them alone.

I'm trying to imagine how Jason would react to all this if he were innocent. Keeping Cassidy isolated or protected makes more sense if he's innocent. I don't expect Jason to be searching for anyone that may have done this and it does seem sensible to let the police do their jobs. He is a computer geek and knows nothing about crime solving. His lawyer has obviously advised him to keep quiet, and he's listening.

There is no question that the police are trying to build a case against Jason so regardless of what he says, it's going to be interpretted through the lens of 'guilt'. Speaking with the police may give them some information, but more likely it will give them some reason to arrest him. False arrests and false convictions have occurred, so Jason needs to protect himself.

As for Cassidy visiting with Meredith alone, that shouldn't really be necessary. If the Fisher family wants to visit, they should be welcome to visit Cassidy in her new environment, read her a book or do a simple craft with her.

I have suspected Jason from the time that this hit the news, but I don't want to take everything he does and interpret it as another reason to confirm that he is guilty. I like to look at the facts and wonder what they could mean. I can understand that he and Cassidy would keep out of the media and the public eye, that Jason would let the police do their work and that he would be afraid of talking with the police. If he didn't commit the crime, then he probably believes that there is nothing he can contribute to solving it. If the police have questions, they could certainly pass them along to Jason's lawyer ... and maybe this has happened. Maybe Jason is answering questions that his lawyer approves without speaking with the police.

 

[FactsareFacts]

I'm trying to imagine how Jason would react to all this if he were innocent. Keeping Cassidy isolated or protected makes more sense if he's innocent. I don't expect Jason to be searching for anyone that may have done this and it does seem sensible to let the police do their jobs. He is a computer geek and knows nothing about crime solving. His lawyer has obviously advised him to keep quiet, and he's listening.

There is no question that the police are trying to build a case against Jason so regardless of what he says, it's going to be interpretted through the lens of 'guilt'. Speaking with the police may give them some information, but more likely it will give them some reason to arrest him. False arrests and false convictions have occurred, so Jason needs to protect himself.

As for Cassidy visiting with Meredith alone, that shouldn't really be necessary. If the Fisher family wants to visit, they should be welcome to visit Cassidy in her new environment, read her a book or do a simple craft with her.

I have suspected Jason from the time that this hit the news, but I don't want to take everything he does and interpret it as another reason to confirm that he is guilty. I like to look at the facts and wonder what they could mean. I can understand that he and Cassidy would keep out of the media and the public eye, that Jason would let the police do their work and that he would be afraid of talking with the police. If he didn't commit the crime, then he probably believes that there is nothing he can contribute to solving it. If the police have questions, they could certainly pass them along to Jason's lawyer ... and maybe this has happened. Maybe Jason is answering questions that his lawyer approves without speaking with the police.

Hello Otto

I rarely post anything here but your posts prompted me to post too. I know I am not going to be real popular but I agree with your posts. I do suspect JY and I have from the begining but; he is IUPG so I try to keep an open mind. I think I read things that are said about JY and try to imagine I am him and I know I didn't kill her so how would I behave in his shoes. I would be very distraught at the loss of my spouse and haunted by the images my little girl had to have seen. If I knew many people were suspicious of me including my inlaws I would find it very hard to cope on a daily basis and still be a good parent to my little girl. I would be with my family for sure, who else would give me support? I read somewhere it is a 12 hour drive to NY from Brevard. I can say emphatically I would NOT make the trip to visit people who think I am a murderer. I doubt I would be welcome in their home for one thing. Now if my inlaws called I would let them talk to Cassidy on the phone no problem and if they decided to make a trip to Brevard to see Cassidy I would certainly let them. I would not be in any shape myself to pack her up for a 12 hour drive though.

I agree Otto I don't think his every move is suspicious, but I know it's easy to go there when you think he is a murderer.

Anyways back to my corner to lurk again, thats my :twocents:

 

[raisincharlie]

Hello Otto

I rarely post anything here but your posts prompted me to post too. I know I am not going to be real popular but I agree with your posts. I do suspect JY and I have from the begining but; he is IUPG so I try to keep an open mind. I think I read things that are said about JY and try to imagine I am him and I know I didn't kill her so how would I behave in his shoes. I would be very distraught at the loss of my spouse and haunted by the images my little girl had to have seen. If I knew many people were suspicious of me including my inlaws I would find it very hard to cope on a daily basis and still be a good parent to my little girl. I would be with my family for sure, who else would give me support? I read somewhere it is a 12 hour drive to NY from Brevard. I can say emphatically I would NOT make the trip to visit people who think I am a murderer. I doubt I would be welcome in their home for one thing. Now if my inlaws called I would let them talk to Cassidy on the phone no problem and if they decided to make a trip to Brevard to see Cassidy I would certainly let them. I would not be in any shape myself to pack her up for a 12 hour drive though.

I agree Otto I don't think his every move is suspicious, but I know it's easy to go there when you think he is a murderer.

Anyways back to my corner to lurk again, thats my :twocents:

Nope - don't go back to the corner to lurk - this is an excellent post ! If Jy is innocent - he must be going through a lot - I don't disagree on that.

 

[gubblegum]

I rarely post here but was compelled to respond to your post. If JY were innocent, he would be reacting just as any innocent man would...computer geek or lumberjack...and screaming at the top of his lungs to seek justice for the brutal murder of his wife and unborn son to his fmaily, friends, neighbors, in-laws and police.


Let's look at the facts and wonder what they could mean:
-No forced entry
-MY Pregnant
-Non-Random Crime
-No other plausible motive
-JY conveniently out of town
-Sunglasses at the funeral
-Sudden, untimely and inconvenient trip to Brevard
If we stopped there, maybe his guilt would be debatable, but:
-Lawyers-up immediately
-Marital Problems
-JY was having an affair
-The 'fax' to lure MF into the house
-No public proclamation of innocence
-No plea to find the killer
-Uncooperative with LE
-No need for LE to offer reward to find the killer
-Keeps Cassidy away from family

Give me a break!

 

[concernedperson]

FactsareFacts,

Welcome to WS. I understand to a degree what you are saying but I would be more like Mark Lunsford. My emotions would be on my sleeve and I would never keep my child away from her grandmother at a time of grief.I would be screaming from the rooftops for justice and I wouldn't stop until there was some modicum of an answer.

The reality is my emotions wouldn't mean a tinkers damn but this is how I would behave. I also believe the average person would want the same answers and would want the same family continuity. All this is JMO.

I don't know how to be guilty of a crime but I am learning some of these perps methods.Most of them are too stupid for words. Again JMO.

Keep posting.

Sincerely,

CP

 

[FactsareFacts]

Nope - don't go back to the corner to lurk - this is an excellent post ! If Jy is innocent - he must be going through a lot - I don't disagree on that.

Thanks Raisin. If I had to pick a suspect he would be it for sure, just trying to be objective I guess. With so little news not much else to do.

 

[FactsareFacts]

I rarely post here but was compelled to respond to your post. If JY were innocent, he would be reacting just as any innocent man would...computer geek or lumberjack...and screaming at the top of his lungs to seek justice for the brutal murder of his wife and unborn son to his fmaily, friends, neighbors, in-laws and police.


Let's look at the facts and wonder what they could mean:
-No forced entry
-MY Pregnant
-Non-Random Crime
-No other plausible motive
-JY conveniently out of town
-Sunglasses at the funeral
-Sudden, untimely and inconvenient trip to Brevard
If we stopped there, maybe his guilt would be debatable, but:
-Lawyers-up immediately
-Marital Problems
-JY was having an affair
-The 'fax' to lure MF into the house
-No public proclamation of innocence
-No plea to find the killer
-Uncooperative with LE
-No need for LE to offer reward to find the killer
-Keeps Cassidy away from family

Give me a break!

Your entitled to your opinion and you could be right on. Some of the things you listed though aren't facts and I remind myself no one knows what goes on behind closed doors except the ones behind it.

I respect your opinions but I am entitled to mine as well. I didn't say he was innoccent.

 

[raisincharlie]

Thanks Raisin. If I had to pick a suspect he would be it for sure, just trying to be objective I guess. With so little news not much else to do.

Objectivity is a good thing. Its just hard sometimes when one has been on the boards for a while. I know when I first came on I was appalled - I couldn't believe some of the things that people do to other people. The last case I followed closely, everyone tried to tell me the suspect was pure evil - I did not want to believe it - refused to believe it until the description of what this kid did to his innocent victim - I have to say, I swallowed hard and could not disagree any longer.

Not to say that is the case here. I would like very much for Cassidy's sake that JY had nothing to do with the death of his wife. I am just too jaded at this point in time to believe that is the case. Your post was a breath of fresh air - your perspective very keen. Thanks.

 

[FactsareFacts]

Objectivity is a good thing. Its just hard sometimes when one has been on the boards for a while. I know when I first came on I was appalled - I couldn't believe some of the things that people do to other people. The last case I followed closely, everyone tried to tell me the suspect was pure evil - I did not want to believe it - refused to believe it until the description of what this kid did to his innocent victim - I have to say, I swallowed hard and could not disagree any longer.

Not to say that is the case here. I would like very much for Cassidy's sake that JY had nothing to do with the death of his wife. I am just too jaded at this point in time to believe that is the case. Your post was a breath of fresh air - your perspective very keen. Thanks.

Thanks Raisin, wishful thinking maybe; I hate the thought of Cassidy losing her Daddy too. I hope he didn't do it for her sake but I don't see any other suspects right now.

 

[gubblegum]

Your entitled to your opinion and you could be right on. Some of the things you listed though aren't facts and I remind myself no one knows what goes on behind closed doors except the ones behind it.

I respect your opinions but I am entitled to mine as well. I didn't say he was innoccent.

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to an opinion...and I stated the facts/reasons that support mine.

What facts/reasons can you point to that would substantiate an opinion other than guilt???

 

[jilly]

Objectivity is a good thing. Its just hard sometimes when one has been on the boards for a while. I know when I first came on I was appalled - I couldn't believe some of the things that people do to other people. The last case I followed closely, everyone tried to tell me the suspect was pure evil - I did not want to believe it - refused to believe it until the description of what this kid did to his innocent victim - I have to say, I swallowed hard and could not disagree any longer.

Wow. That's exactly how I felt too! And that's a first for me admittedly being pro prosecution. I was religiously reading that CCT message board looking for some sort of reassurance that he didn't do it. Difference between me and you though RC is that when I couldn't disagree anymore, I lost interest and didn't follow the trial. Go figure - maybe it was just some sort of maternal instinct - I actually felt sorry for the kid.

 

[otto]

Hello Otto

I rarely post anything here but your posts prompted me to post too. I know I am not going to be real popular but I agree with your posts. I do suspect JY and I have from the begining but; he is IUPG so I try to keep an open mind. I think I read things that are said about JY and try to imagine I am him and I know I didn't kill her so how would I behave in his shoes. I would be very distraught at the loss of my spouse and haunted by the images my little girl had to have seen. If I knew many people were suspicious of me including my inlaws I would find it very hard to cope on a daily basis and still be a good parent to my little girl. I would be with my family for sure, who else would give me support? I read somewhere it is a 12 hour drive to NY from Brevard. I can say emphatically I would NOT make the trip to visit people who think I am a murderer. I doubt I would be welcome in their home for one thing. Now if my inlaws called I would let them talk to Cassidy on the phone no problem and if they decided to make a trip to Brevard to see Cassidy I would certainly let them. I would not be in any shape myself to pack her up for a 12 hour drive though.

I agree Otto I don't think his every move is suspicious, but I know it's easy to go there when you think he is a murderer.

Anyways back to my corner to lurk again, thats my :twocents:

I appreciate your post and I do think it is important to keep an open mind. If we all have tunnel vision, we will miss the obvious. I too try to put myself in Jason's shoes and wonder what I would do in a similar situation. On the one hand I'm suspicious of Jason's withdrawal from everything, but I think I might do the same if I were in the same situation. The police can use everything from imtimidation to coercion or trickery to obtain the information they want and if Jason is a bit shy, or prone to stumbling over his words, he could be in trouble with an interview.

Linda Fisher said she hadn't seen Cassidy since Michelle's murder, but how long exactly has it been since she saw Cassidy? Was it a week or six months? Linda refused to elaborate, so perhaps that meant she could speak to Cassidy on the phone but that Cassidy could not come for a visit. If Linda went to Brevard and requested a visit, what would happen? If this happened and she was refused visitation, what would be the reason? Linda's Fisher's statement is very suggestive, as are statements that the police have not spoken directly with Jason, but there may be another explanation for both.