Michelle Young: Pregnant Mom, NC. part 8

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  • #201
Welcome back pack fan !

Hope you have had a great holiday season. Not much happening here as you have already surmised. FWIW - I'm not surprised the vehicle was returned actually - hard to drag that into court - video and photographic materials will work just fine if anything was found in the SUV. I agree, LE would not have released it without forensic validation of what, if anything was found within. I think the release of the vehicle indicates good news - forensics are coming back. Anyway - glad you are back !
 
  • #202
scandi said:
One thing I have done is watch a lot of great CSI and Forensic Files shows. If JY was the one who bludgeoned Michelle, forensic specialists can determine even if a single drop of blood is from spatter or dripped. I remember one CSI Miami show where a spot of blood was discovered on the edge of the killers sole. It nailed him as it was the victims and a drop of spatter.

It pretty well goes without saying here he had to leave some clue as he is not an experienced killer.

I had to laugh today, as a TH was referring to the State forensics lab in Denver as one of the finest in the country :D That is the variable, how astute the forensic team is. Scandi

i've recently gotten absolutely hooked on CSI Miami...it's on Monday thru Friday on A & E at 7 pm central time....
 
  • #203
Samiya said:


If Jason is innocent (and these are some of what helped me swan dive off the fence) then he should have had no problem telling investigators....

1 Who, if anyone other than Meredith, has keys to the house and their names and addresses.
2 Whether or not there are some of his clothes unaccounted for in the wardrobe.
3 The 'relationship' with MM upfront. Although it points to him possibly being a roustabout, it is zip zero NADA information compared to the death of his wife.
4 If a lady met him in VA hotel, not necessarily MM. If there was a ladyfriend who met him there, then she is a witness to when he was there.

There are plenty of questions he can answer WITHOUT a lawyer present that would not necessarily cause undue suspicion on his character. Note number 2 in particular.

Sami
I agree - JY could have answered these questions without implicating himself, he could have done it with or without a lawyer. Would have been helpful but since he has a lawyer, I doubt the police would have agreed to ask just these questions of him.

As to number 4 - I think this may be a chink - one that LE is concerned with - without this information LE will not know until the discovery portion if JY has such an alibi. LE is now forced to ascertain this without his input. Given that MM is know a known - it seems to me, JYs lawyer would be doing a good thing for his client by telling LE JY can be accounted for if the client is innocent. It is also possible that JYs lawyer has told this to LE, just not who. JMO
 
  • #204
raisincharlie said:
Welcome back pack fan !

Hope you have had a great holiday season. Not much happening here as you have already surmised. FWIW - I'm not surprised the vehicle was returned actually - hard to drag that into court - video and photographic materials will work just fine if anything was found in the SUV. I agree, LE would not have released it without forensic validation of what, if anything was found within. I think the release of the vehicle indicates good news - forensics are coming back. Anyway - glad you are back !

Good Morning Charlie!

I wish I was as optimistic as you are about the return of the vehicle. Yes, video would suffice I guess but there is nothing more compelling than showing the actual truck to a jury and what and where things were found especially forensics.

The facts are though and this is what is puzzling to me, if any forensics are found on anything listed in a search warrant those items do not have to be returned and there is no way a defense lawyer can get them back as they are considered evidence.

The only reason Geragos was able to petition the court for the truck return was because there wasn't anything pertaining to Laci and Conner forensically found in that truck. Had there been the Petersons could whine all they wanted and it would have made no difference.

I am glad that forensics are now coming back but imo the returning of the truck is a blow to LE. Lets just hope the home yields conclusive evidence proving JY did this because imo nothing at all was found in the vehicle.

IMO

Ocean
 
  • #205
strach304 said:
Well finally! Thanks RC :) I remember the argument over SP's truck as well so they can use photos, video and lab info for court. I think LE was smart grabbing the SUV right away but I don't think if Jason did this he wore bloody clothes to drive off in. He would've changed right there, bagged the clothes and tossed or burned them somewhere far away imo.

so, investigators are finished with the SUV...good deal!....if they found anything, pictures, video & lab reports will do just fine ;)
 
  • #206
raisincharlie said:
I agree - JY could have answered these questions without implicating himself, he could have done it with or without a lawyer. Would have been helpful but since he has a lawyer, I doubt the police would have agreed to ask just these questions of him.

As to number 4 - I think this may be a chink - one that LE is concerned with - without this information LE will not know until the discovery portion if JY has such an alibi. LE is now forced to ascertain this without his input. Given that MM is know a known - it seems to me, JYs lawyer would be doing a good thing for his client by telling LE JY can be accounted for if the client is innocent. It is also possible that JYs lawyer has told this to LE, just not who. JMO

I do think that there has been meetings/conversations with LE and JYs lawyer but I highly doubt the lawyer would advise JY to speak to them. He probably told him he will be the go between.

IMO

Ocean
 
  • #207
oceanblueeyes said:
Good Morning Charlie!

I wish I was as optimistic as you are about the return of the vehicle. Yes, video would suffice I guess but there is nothing more compelling than showing the actual truck to a jury and what and where things were found especially forensics.

The facts are though and this is what is puzzling to me, if any forensics are found on anything listed in a search warrant those items do not have to be returned and there is no way a defense lawyer can get them back as they are considered evidence.

The only reason Geragos was able to petition the court for the truck return was because there wasn't anything pertaining to Laci and Conner forensically found in that truck. Had there been the Petersons could whine all they wanted and it would have made no difference.

I am glad that forensics are now coming back but imo the returning of the truck is a blow to LE. Lets just hope the home yields conclusive evidence proving JY did this because imo nothing at all was found in the vehicle.

IMO

Ocean

hmmmm, ..... i see what you're saying; it makes sense :doh:

eta....Distaso got to keep the boat in, because Laci's hair was 'in' the pliers found in the boat...
 
  • #208
oceanblueeyes said:
Didn't LE say they brought in special equipment. If he was soaked with blood and had to change you would think some drops at least would be there and if he went to clean up in the bathroom surely they checked the faucets and drains, rugs......they could find not only blood by maybe his hair that had her blood clinging to it.

I just cant see him doing something so messy and then being able to clean absolutely every trace of it from the home.

Now I am wondering about a hitman again

IMO

Ocean

i tend to think the 'special equipment' was for combing through computer data, rather than the drains in the home or elsewhere......someone over at ctv (a newbie that never posted again) posted this info/speculation...course it's jmo....who knows what the special machine/equipment was for?
 
  • #209
close_enough said:
hmmmm, ..... i see what you're saying; it makes sense :doh:

eta....Distaso got to keep the boat in, because Laci's hair was 'in' the pliers found in the boat...

Thank you close and Good Morning to you!

Yes you are correct.....Geragos could not get the boat returned because there was evidence of Laci there.

This is why I feel queasy about the return of JY vehicle. I will never believe that a DA would release a piece of evidence back to the darn creep that did this. They would hold onto it tooth and nail because by law they can.

I wonder who leaked it about the vehicle being returned? Maybe JYs lawyer?

IMO

Ocean
 
  • #210
oceanblueeyes said:
Good Morning Charlie!

I wish I was as optimistic as you are about the return of the vehicle. Yes, video would suffice I guess but there is nothing more compelling than showing the actual truck to a jury and what and where things were found especially forensics.

The facts are though and this is what is puzzling to me, if any forensics are found on anything listed in a search warrant those items do not have to be returned and there is no way a defense lawyer can get them back as they are considered evidence.

The only reason Geragos was able to petition the court for the truck return was because there wasn't anything pertaining to Laci and Conner forensically found in that truck. Had there been the Petersons could whine all they wanted and it would have made no difference.

I am glad that forensics are now coming back but imo the returning of the truck is a blow to LE. Lets just hope the home yields conclusive evidence proving JY did this because imo nothing at all was found in the vehicle.

IMO

Ocean
Ocean,

IMO - there was not any significant amount of, cut to the chase, blood (MYs) found in the vehicle. I'm 99% certain her DNA would have been found in the vehicle regardless - but if not blood and a significant amount I can see no meaning to it.

The significance of the SUV to me has been confirmed by the release of the warrant for the lap top from the SUV. I suspect there were significant findings of bits and pieces that provided some information as to JYs travels and locations. Items such as receipts for hotel, gas, food - all items such as this would assist in defining his time and locations. I think such items were found right along with the lap top - JMO of course. I'm believing in Strach's theory - Jy cleaned up at his own home, bagged his clothes and ancilliary items and left. There would be minimal potential under that scenario for a significant amount of blood to be expected in the SUV. Yes I am optimistic.
 
  • #211
oceanblueeyes said:
Good Morning Charlie!

I wish I was as optimistic as you are about the return of the vehicle. Yes, video would suffice I guess but there is nothing more compelling than showing the actual truck to a jury and what and where things were found especially forensics.

The facts are though and this is what is puzzling to me, if any forensics are found on anything listed in a search warrant those items do not have to be returned and there is no way a defense lawyer can get them back as they are considered evidence.

The only reason Geragos was able to petition the court for the truck return was because there wasn't anything pertaining to Laci and Conner forensically found in that truck. Had there been the Petersons could whine all they wanted and it would have made no difference.

I am glad that forensics are now coming back but imo the returning of the truck is a blow to LE. Lets just hope the home yields conclusive evidence proving JY did this because imo nothing at all was found in the vehicle.

IMO

Ocean

still thinking on this.....Distaso DID use pics of SP's truck though as circumstantial evidence...his blood was in the truck (CE of him being cut & bled inside the truck)......could be something along those lines, IF anything was found in JY's truck.....hard to believe that JY (if he's the perp) didn't get injured in SOME kind of way while beathing Michelle....her scratching him maybe??.....aaaah, i don't know, ugh.... :waitasec:
 
  • #212
close_enough said:
i tend to think the 'special equipment' was for combing through computer data, rather than the drains in the home or elsewhere......someone over at ctv (a newbie that never posted again) posted this info/speculation...course it's jmo....who knows what the special machine/equipment was for?

Wasn't it supposed to be some special imaging equipment? I had thought maybe they were going to use satellite imagery that takes pictures of residence at certain times........then I thought it may be a new technology that can go down into drain lines and pipes without removing the pipes to look for forensics.

Wouldn't they use their special computer data equipment in their computer forensic labs and not take it to the home?

LOL but we can only guess and that is what keeps us here wanting to find out the answers.

IMO

Ocean
 
  • #213
oceanblueeyes said:
Thank you close and Good Morning to you!

Yes you are correct.....Geragos could not get the boat returned because there was evidence of Laci there.

This is why I feel queasy about the return of JY vehicle. I will never believe that a DA would release a piece of evidence back to the darn creep that did this. They would hold onto it tooth and nail because by law they can.

I wonder who leaked it about the vehicle being returned? Maybe JYs lawyer?

IMO

Ocean

i'd say more than likely....
 
  • #214
oceanblueeyes said:
Wasn't it supposed to be some special imaging equipment? I had thought maybe they were going to use satellite imagery that takes pictures of residence at certain times........then I thought it may be a new technology that can go down into drain lines and pipes without removing the pipes to look for forensics.

Wouldn't they use their special computer data equipment in their computer forensic labs and not take it to the home?

LOL but we can only guess and that is what keeps us here wanting to find out the answers.

IMO

Ocean

OH, now i never heard that this machine/equipment was brought into the home....i thought it was said that 'it' was brought into the investigation.....you could very well be right then, if this is the case....
 
  • #215
pack_fan said:
I'm baaaaaackkkkk! After PSA came back, I had to make a grand entrance. Been traveling too for the new year, etc, etc, etc. Thought I would make a grand entrance as well. BTW, welcome back PSA.

I think the return of the vehicle means forensics is picking up. No doubt in my mind that they would not have returned the vehicle without forensic evidence in hand. They could have used this in the trial. Either for or against JY. I have moved from on the fence for JY to off the fence against JY. If this vehicle is being returned, I am having some serious doubts about the evidence in the car. I would have thought that this would have been a definate point against him. Pre-meditated or not, a killing this brutal would, imo, have found some evidence where they would have kept the car.

Couple of other points reading back through. I think MM was in the wedding for Jason and Michelle, not 100% sure but 95%. She was in town for sure and I can tell you that this is where I met the infamous pooch that PSA is so concearned with. They catered lunch at the football game for their "reception" which the dog also attended. Also, there is more to the fact that Cassidy has not seen LF or MF from what I understand. Not out of spite as some has suggested, don't want to say too much but just think of it from more of a fatherly perspective so to say. Guilty or not......

welcome back Pack:)

"fatherly perspective" you say???...hmmmm, can't grasp that at all...
 
  • #216
close_enough said:
still thinking on this.....Distaso DID use pics of SP's truck though as circumstantial evidence...his blood was in the truck (CE of him being cut & bled inside the truck)......could be something along those lines, IF anything was found in JY's truck.....hard to believe that JY (if he's the perp) didn't get injured in SOME kind of way while beating Michelle....her scratching him maybe??.....aaaah, i don't know, ugh.... :waitasec:

I know it drives me crazy too lol

BUT we must remember Distaso had no choice. He wanted the truck and was even willing for the State to pay for it but the Judge said "No".

It does seem impossible that JY came away from there without even a tiny knick or stratch. Even SD had scratches and bruises when he beat Pamela unmercifully.

Didn't one of the "insiders" say that Michelle had defensive wounds? You would think the first thing she would do to protect herself was scratch him with her nails and dig in.

IMO

Ocean
 
  • #217
oceanblueeyes said:
<snip>

I wonder who leaked it about the vehicle being returned? Maybe JYs lawyer?

IMO

Ocean
If it was JYs lawyer - either he only bothered to tell WRAL or the other media outlets didn't care about since there are no reports on ABC, CBS or the N &O. I suspect WRAL has a source within LE - maybe at the impound lot- that gave them a heads up. JMO
 
  • #218
raisincharlie said:
If it was JYs lawyer - either he only bothered to tell WRAL or the other media outlets didn't care about since there are no reports on ABC, CBS or the N &O. I suspect WRAL has a source within LE - maybe at the impound lot- that gave them a heads up. JMO

Hi Charlie you may be right but if I was JYs lawyer I sure would let it be known the truck has been returned.

Sometimes other media outlets are slow to print. I do think we will see more articles on this news in the coming days.

IMO

Ocean
 
  • #219
oceanblueeyes said:
I know it drives me crazy too lol

<snip>
It does seem impossible that JY came away from there without even a tiny knick or stratch. Even SD had scratches and bruises when he beat Pamela unmercifully.

<snip>
Ocean
Ocean,

One thing about that testimonial order - it wasn't limited to just fingerprints and DNA - it also allowed for several other "things" as well as photographs.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1413/story/508250.html

"Sheriff's investigators can legally use a nontestimonial order to obtain such evidence as fingerprints, palm prints, footprints, blood specimens, hair samples, voice samples and photographs."

Who knows - there could have been a black eye under those sunglasses...
 
  • #220
raisincharlie said:
Thanks Sami - appreciate the input. I have gotten quite interested in how far from the body evidence would/could move. I am thinking along the lines of the possibility that JY would have changed clothes in his own bedroom and think there is a possibility there may have been some blood evidence found in the closet, maybe on the clothes or shoes on the floor of the closet.

If he was careful enough, the only blood evidence would be on the clothes he grabbed to change into in the form of trace elements. Unless he's stupid enough to grab coathangers. As I said in my other post, the is a chance that the perp would not have much blood on him at all. So he may have just wiped his hands on the 'murder' clothes before changing, but that would still leave trace evidence on his hands and would certainly interfere with the natural oils on his hands. But I would agree, there si a possibility of him changing at the house.

I also wonder about Strach's idea that the clothes worn during the crime were put in a plastic bag and taken by the perp. I wonder about possible patterns left on the floor where these clothes may have been placed while changing - wondering if that would be identifiable if there were no dog or child present to track through.

Now here's another area that could get interesting. It would say a lot if he put the murder clothes in a plastic bag. If he took the plastic bag upstairs before the murder, it could mean either that he had the intention of causing bloodshed before he even went upstairs or that he intended to take extra clothes (aka moving out) and things went horribly wrong after an argument.

To go downstairs and get a plastic bag would certainly mean that he spent a good amount of time after the murder in the house, but the murder clothes wouldn't necessarily even touch the floor if he put each item into the bag as he took them off. But both mean that he would've cleaned himself up inside the house.


I know with luminol that LE can often find tracks that show how an area was left - thinking it may be possible to figure where the clothes may have been left while changing. I'm thinking luminol would have been used as the very last part of the scene investigation after LE felt all forensics were collected, as from news reports LE was at the scene at night.
Thinking on all this and remembering that this house had four other owners, there was a child and a dog loose in and around the house,

I'm still not sure on the dog being inside. Regardless of being a family pet, I've never seen a dog that would not be curious as to not enter a room where there is blood. Even a loving pet would lick it's owners face if she was found on the floor and would certainly have no problem 'helping' with a clean up of blood on the floor, although it may not touch the body itself. I would also think that Meredith would've mentioned the dogs pawprints as well as Cassidy's...but that just my opinion :) because if it was particularly attached to Cassidy (sleeping with her etc) it would've been right beside Cassidy next to Michelle's body.

I'm starting to be able to explain in my own brain (rightly or wrongly) why this scene may have taken so long to process. Very complicated scene I think. Do you yourself have any idea what the "special machine" brought to the house might have been (maybe fairly new technology)? Some kind of spectral imaging maybe that would not destroy forensic evidence as luminol does?

It could have been anything from a vacuum sweeper (a vacuuming machine which has a special filter attached) to different lighting sources, ie; uv or laser. Some lights show up blood traces, whereas some will show up an area that has recently been washed down and some show up chemicals that may have been used.

The length of time taken depends on how much forensic evidence they've gathered from the scene. This crime scene probably involved collections of...

hair
fibers
skin scrapings
blood (pooling, drops, spatter, runs, arterial sprays)
finger/palm/hand prints, either complete or incomplete.
vegetative matter
other bodily fluids. vomit, seminal stains even if no sexual offense has taken place, saliva, amniotic fluids (since Chelle was pregnant at the time)
plus inanimate objects (lamp etc)


One other - the location of this house between two others, tends to make one wonder why someone would decide to enter this house - from the aerials - there would have been much easier "targets" for an intruder to be inticed by - would you agree?

Yes I would agree from looking at the aerial views of the house. After the majority of the scenarios I have done so far, I tend to believe that Chelle was the target. Even if a burglar had gotten into the house, in all honesty he had no reason to go upstairs at all. Her purse was apparently downstairs in the kitchen, all expensive items of value apart from jewellery would have been downstairs, so he could've gotten a 'very profitable grab bag' just from downstairs without having to disturb the sleeping Chelle upstairs, if she was asleep.

Know you are probably busy so not to worry about my rambling around.
Having fun with baby C ? ;) I just bet you are !
Lol it's after 02:30 over here and yep, I'm still awake as usual. I was laughing today because my cute granddaughter meows like a kitten when she wants food :)

Sami
 
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