Michelle Young~Pregnant Mother NC Part 5

[raisincharlie]

Yep, perfect sense. I tell ya, I bet LE is very perturbed and maybe a bit suspicious about this "find" by JY's family. Very glad that
they downplayed it, when speaking to the media.

I was surprised to learn this "discovery" was made two weeks ago.

IMO - this is not a big deal -if it is Michelle's, it certainly doesn't define who the killer is and it certainly wasn't the cause of death. It also surpises me that it was found two weeks ago, but in some way I am more surprised to hear about it at all. I sort of think LE let it slip and may have let it slip out for a reason - sure takes the wind out of someone's sail doesn't it? IMO too many folks think this CSI stuff is as easy and magical as the 1 hour show - it isn't, and never will be. Best to admit it now and let everyone have the ah ha moment in the press now rather than at trial. Good idea IMO.

 

[Bee Charmer]

Goodness... Hi Bee... I've been away 2 days and thought this was discovered very recently! Y'know, something inside of me is giving the skeptical 'yeah, right' as JY's family and friends try SOOOO hard to catch LE out.

I don;t think they're even making a dent...

IMO, that is.

Hi Annie, yeah I don't get the reason why the family took
this opportunity to jump ugly with LE and criticize them:

From WRAL - "The discovery has led Young's family members to question the completeness of the investigation, sources close to the case said."

Family worried about "completeness" when we now have it confirmed that JY has yet to sit down and have a formal interview with LE.

 

[raisincharlie]

Hi Annie, yeah I don't get the reason why the family took
this opportunity to jump ugly with LE and criticize them:

From WRAL - "The discovery has led Young's family members to question the completeness of the investigation, sources close to the case said."

Family worried about "completeness" when we now have it confirmed that JY has yet to sit down and have a formal interview with LE.

You weren't suppose to remember or think about the last paragraph !

 

[Scout]

You bet they took all of that. That is my point - seems to me that CCBI would have started at the lowest elevations of the scene and worked up so as not to drop anything from the top down to a lower spot as location would be important. I would think, the last places checked would be those above floor level. So IMO it is possible the tooth fragment was lodged somewhere in the bed clothing and when this was removed, which would be the last evidence removed - the tooth fragment fell to the floor, perhaps bounced under the bed or night table. There would be no reason for LE to then go back and look under the bed or table as they had already checked the flooring.

Does that make any sense ?

Makes sense to me.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO - this is not a big deal -if it is Michelle's, it certainly doesn't define who the killer is and it certainly wasn't the cause of death. It also surpises me that it was found two weeks ago, but in some way I am more surprised to hear about it at all. I sort of think LE let it slip and may have let it slip out for a reason - sure takes the wind out of someone's sail doesn't it? IMO too many folks think this CSI stuff is as easy and magical as the 1 hour show - it isn't, and never will be. Best to admit it now and let everyone have the ah ha moment in the press now rather than at trial. Good idea IMO.

I agree Charlie. This is no smoking gun. It happens from time to time, LE misses things.

What I am very interested in though is they after almost a month are widening their fingerprint investigation to JYs family and friends.

What nags me is there has to be fingerprints LE has obtained from that scene that they think are prevelant to this case. Fingerprint testing and comparisons do not take nearly as long to come back as other forensic evidence. So this tends to make me think they have come up with no identifiable print(s) with no matches in the data system. Now the interesting question is where was the one(s) they are trying to match found in that crime scene and could they have a bloody fingerprint they are trying to identify???

Imo, they do have fingerprints and fingerprints they think are vital to the case but what kind of fingerprints have they found?

Just curious.

IMO

Ocean

 

[raisincharlie]

I agree Charlie. This is no smoking gun. It happens from time to time, LE misses things.

What I am very interested in though is they after almost a month are widening their fingerprint investigation to JYs family and friends.

What nags me is there has to be fingerprints LE has obtained from that scene that they think are prevelant to this case. Fingerprint testing and comparisons do not take nearly as long to come back as other forensic evidence. So this tends to make me think they have come up with no identifiable print(s) with no matches in the data system. Now the interesting question is where was the one(s) they are trying to match found in that crime scene and could they have a bloody fingerprint they are trying to identify???

Imo, they do have fingerprints and fingerprints they think are vital to the case but what kind of fingerprints have they found?

Just curious.

IMO

Ocean

Hey Ocean,

Glad to see you and hope you had a good holiday.

I'm of the mind that perhaps there are a few things at work here. First, it doesn't worry me that LE is continuing to collect prints, especially in Brevard. I suspect if JY was unwilling to volunteer his prints and other samples, the same would be true of the individuals (his family members) who came back to Raleigh with him. I can see step dad pretty much saying go to heck after his quote in the paper. I also think that perhaps court orders were required or at least prepared for this activity. I think it is reasonable to assume that JYs family would also be finger printed as it is IMO reasonable to assume they were in the house at some time. So what this says to me, is not worrisome, but rather that LE is getting close.

The time frame does not bother me either because we know that JY has not spoken to police. Therefore a significant amount of investigative time had to be devoted to determining his where abouts first and then retracing and checking that information. Had JY come in and told them this information, the reduction in time would be dramatic as it is a matter of checking rather than discovering and then checking. This IMO is the typical defense lawyer doing everything possible to delay.

Second, I think the DA involved in this case, if JY is the main suspect, also knows very well how the law firm representing JY works and is therefore covering those bases in advance. Just a theory but I think it holds water. JMO

RC

 

[Taximom]

I know I throw some weird things out there once in a while, but with no real facts...the imagination can go wild.

As I was playing with my kids today (and still thinking about this case ), it hit me that I've assumed JY left Cassidy alive because he loved her. How do we know that he didn't have every intention of killing her as well, and just couldn't do it in the end?

That may have been one way Cassidy saw her daddy, IF he did this murder. He might have entered her room about to do the deed and maybe she woke up and he just couldn't.

(Scandi, you are much better than I at describing the possible scene!)

Just a thought, that's all.:truce:

 

[scandi]

Yep, I think it holds water just like watering can for the garden. Perfectly!

I've heard good things about Sheriff Harrison and now think of him as an old salt on the job - often going out with his men on investigations. He knows what they're up against and it should be a great case to follow to the end.

Of course I wish I knew when they plan to make an arrest, but I think it's pretty close, don't you?

Taximom :blowkiss: Scandi

 

[raisincharlie]

I know I throw some weird things out there once in a while, but with no real facts...the imagination can go wild.

As I was playing with my kids today (and still thinking about this case ), it hit me that I've assumed JY left Cassidy alive because he loved her. How do we know that he didn't have every intention of killing her as well, and just couldn't do it in the end?

That may have been one way Cassidy saw her daddy, IF he did this murder. He might have entered her room about to do the deed and maybe she woke up and he just couldn't.

(Scandi, you are much better than I at describing the possible scene!)

Just a thought, that's all.:truce:

I like deer meat, but for the life of me, I can't shoot a deer...

ETA - something about those eyes, just can't do it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I like deer meat, but for the life of me, I can't shoot a deer...

I love deer meat if it is prepared correctly. It is very healthy food. My family are big hunters.

Our son got a big 8 pt. buck today!

IMO

Ocean

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hey Ocean,

Glad to see you and hope you had a good holiday.

I'm of the mind that perhaps there are a few things at work here. First, it doesn't worry me that LE is continuing to collect prints, especially in Brevard. I suspect if JY was unwilling to volunteer his prints and other samples, the same would be true of the individuals (his family members) who came back to Raleigh with him. I can see step dad pretty much saying go to heck after his quote in the paper. I also think that perhaps court orders were required or at least prepared for this activity. I think it is reasonable to assume that JYs family would also be finger printed as it is IMO reasonable to assume they were in the house at some time. So what this says to me, is not worrisome, but rather that LE is getting close.

The time frame does not bother me either because we know that JY has not spoken to police. Therefore a significant amount of investigative time had to be devoted to determining his where abouts first and then retracing and checking that information. Had JY come in and told them this information, the reduction in time would be dramatic as it is a matter of checking rather than discovering and then checking. This IMO is the typical defense lawyer doing everything possible to delay.

Second, I think the DA involved in this case, if JY is the main suspect, also knows very well how the law firm representing JY works and is therefore covering those bases in advance. Just a theory but I think it holds water. JMO

RC

It doesn't worry me either but it is odd this far out in the investigation to be going to Brevard now to collect more fingerprints. Maybe its just me but in my logic lol it seems to mean they do have a vital fingerprint(s) and they are trying to include/exclude the known prints by going the route of his family and friends.

Even we have known loosely about JY alibi for quite awhile. I would think that LE by now have interviewed many who had spoken with JY and have checked out what was told to them that he did that day. Im just not sure it would take an entire month to do that. They have 20 investigators on this case alone dont they?

I just dont believe if even one of JYs fingerprints was found there with even a smidgen of Michelle's blood on it that JY would be walking around a free man but would be awaiting trial without bail.

I think they are hunting for a match.......a match they haven't yet been able to find. Now this is not saying that JY is not up to his eyeballs in all of this. He probably is...or someone he may have paid to do this.

ETA: I am trying to multi-task today, Charlie, oops. Thank you so much. Yes I had a wonderful holiday, I hope you and your family did too.

IMO

Ocean

 

[raisincharlie]

It doesn't worry me either but it is odd this far out in the investigation to be going to Brevard now to collect more fingerprints. Maybe its just me but in my logic lol it seems to mean they do have a vital fingerprint(s) and they are trying to include/exclude the known prints by going the route of his family and friends.

Even we have known loosely about JY alibi for quite awhile. I would think that LE by now have interviewed many who had spoken with JY and have checked out what was told to them that he did that day. Im just not sure it would take an entire month to do that. They have 20 investigators on this case alone dont they?

I just dont believe if even one of JYs fingerprints was found there with even a smidgen of Michelle's blood on it that JY would be walking around a free man but would be awaiting trial without bail.

I think they are hunting for a match.......a match they haven't yet been able to find. Now this is not saying that JY is not up to his eyeballs in all of this. He probably is...or someone he may have paid to do this.

IMO

Ocean

I know enough to know I should trust your logic Ocean, you could be right. But truth is it has only been 29 days with a holiday thrown in there. And with no information from JY to rule him in or out, there is time to wait for phone records, credit card receipts and then going through all that, tracing the route, canvassing the people along that route and so on. If all this information is inconclusive then new avenues must be traveled. We only know that a friend of JY's said he was told JY went to VA for a business meeting - but that doesn't make it so. We know the police have gone to 3 other states following leads, time consuming. Why did they go to three other states for a meeting in Virginia?

I think the report of 20 people working this case may have included CCBI who was tied up for 13 days in the house and who knows how many days on the three cars brought in. I don't think it means there are 20 people working on the leads reported. The sheriff says they had 100 leads to follow up on and have done 65 interviews - seems to me they are busy folks. I agree the collection of fingerprints in Brevard is definitely aimed at relatives and friends. For what purpose I don't know but inclusion / exclusion seems the most obvious of course. Whether it is for a "normal print" or a bloody print, I don't know.

I believe it would be fool hardy to arrest a perp on finding a bloody print alone - a good defense lawyer will call for a trial tomorrow and maybe come up with 10 witnesses who can cast doubt and all the state has is 1 print and nothing to support it - un uh - won't fly - the DA is going to need and want more, in case the trial is tomorrow. IMO.

ETA - most likely this will be a death penalty case - maybe they are doing exactly as the sheriff says - going slow and making sure.

 

[sweetmop]

Hi All WS'ers ! Been out of the loop here as I had to work past 4 days. Now I have 5 whole days off:dance: !!!!! I can't believe no arrest as of yet. It surely can't be too much longer. I still feel JY is the murderer, although I have really prayed that he is not. I think if he were not the murderer, LE would issue a statement to that effect... 'Jason Young has been cleared of any crime and is not a suspect'. But JY has not even sat down with them? That blows my mind! What spouse in their right mind would not want to sit down and talk any time LE wanted!!! With LE going to Brevard this week, it sure looks even more suspicios to me. FWIW I need to catch up on posts, as I've just skimmed through them. Anything treally big I've missed? Hope all are well and had good holiday!

 

[scandi]

Charlie, If they ID'ed every fingerprint through this investigation, and every print was from someone that had a reason to be in the house, would that rule out an outsider? Or would the defense just say he wore gloves?

Scandi

ETA: To clarify that, so they are doing all of this fingerprint matching to rule out the possibility of a strange print?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I know enough to know I should trust your logic Ocean, you could be right. But truth is it has only been 29 days with a holiday thrown in there. And with no information from JY to rule him in or out, there is time to wait for phone records, credit card receipts and then going through all that, tracing the route, canvassing the people along that route and so on. If all this information is inconclusive then new avenues must be traveled. We only know that a friend of JY's said he was told JY went to VA for a business meeting - but that doesn't make it so. We know the police have gone to 3 other states following leads, time consuming. Why did they go to three other states for a meeting in Virginia?

I think the report of 20 people working this case may have included CCBI who was tied up for 13 days in the house and who knows how many days on the three cars brought in. I don't think it means there are 20 people working on the leads reported. The sheriff says they had 100 leads to follow up on and have done 65 interviews - seems to me they are busy folks. I agree the collection of fingerprints in Brevard is definitely aimed at relatives and friends. For what purpose I don't know but inclusion / exclusion seems the most obvious of course. Whether it is for a "normal print" or a bloody print, I don't know.

I believe it would be fool hardy to arrest a perp on finding a bloody print alone - a good defense lawyer will call for a trial tomorrow and maybe come up with 10 witnesses who can cast doubt and all the state has is 1 print and nothing to support it - un uh - won't fly - the DA is going to need and want more, in case the trial is tomorrow. IMO.

No Charlie, you are probably right. For some reason I do think they think the fingerprints they have are very vitale to this case and they are looking for a particular match. Imo it is for certain they have fingerprints what is not certain is were any of them a bloody fingerprint but if so then this will be a major piece of evidence when this comes to trial. Defendants have gone down on a lot less than bloody fingerprints. There is no way to explain their way out of it. A regular fingerprint made by a person known to frequent the home...no problem, a lawyer could punch holes in that all day long but when you start mixing the dna of the suspect and the victim it is downhill all the way 99% of the time.

Thats all I am saying. We dont know what kind of fingerprint they found but it sure is interesting enough to them to keep searching. lol The part that is intriguing to me is we dont know what kind of fingerprint they do have.

Even when they arrest someone Charlie they never have all their ducks in a row. Major investigation is continued all the way until trial time and some cases have even allowed new discovery in them. All they need is probable cause to arrest.

IMO

Ocean

 

[strach304]

You bet they took all of that. That is my point - seems to me that CCBI would have started at the lowest elevations of the scene and worked up so as not to drop anything from the top down to a lower spot as location would be important. I would think, the last places checked would be those above floor level. So IMO it is possible the tooth fragment was lodged somewhere in the bed clothing and when this was removed, which would be the last evidence removed - the tooth fragment fell to the floor, perhaps bounced under the bed or night table. There would be no reason for LE to then go back and look under the bed or table as they had already checked the flooring.

Does that make any sense ?

It makes sense in a first stage search so to speak if in other words what they first find on the floor determines it's original location. Then if there is removal of bedding or just about anything above floor level seeing that gravity is what it is there should be a final floor search. We don't know that they didn't, in another post I said maybe the tooth wasn't there. Consider the source.

 

[packerdog]

Charlie, If they ID'ed every fingerprint through this investigation, and every print was from someone that had a reason to be in the house, would that rule out an outsider? Or would the defense just say he wore gloves?

Scandi

ETA: To clarify that, so they are doing all of this fingerprint matching to rule out the possibility of a strange print?

Hi scandi, this is exactly why they need to interview Jason. They may have had repair men in the house, babysitters, friends, and so on, without his input how could they eliminate fingerprints as being there for a purpose?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Charlie, If they ID'ed every fingerprint through this investigation, and every print was from someone that had a reason to be in the house, would that rule out an outsider? Or would the defense just say he wore gloves?

Scandi

ETA: To clarify that, so they are doing all of this fingerprint matching to rule out the possibility of a strange print?

Well all we really know is they are looking to either include or exclude by trying to identify the prints they have in the investigation. They have to be in possession of a print(s) that they are trying to find a comparison match.

IMO

Ocean

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It makes sense in a first stage search so to speak if in other words what they first find on the floor determines it's original location. Then if there is removal of bedding or just about anything above floor level seeing that gravity is what it is there should be a final floor search. We don't know that they didn't, in another post I said maybe the tooth wasn't there. Consider the source.

Dont they also vacuum the crime area to collect any fibers, hairs etc? You would think if they did that the tooth would have been picked up if they missed it somehow.

IMO

Ocean

 

[raisincharlie]

Charlie, If they ID'ed every fingerprint through this investigation, and every print was from someone that had a reason to be in the house, would that rule out an outsider? Or would the defense just say he wore gloves?

Scandi

ETA: To clarify that, so they are doing all of this fingerprint matching to rule out the possibility of a strange print?

Scandi,

To me the finger print matching is a catch 22 and it works both ways. When evidence is collected there is no way to know if you have captured the perps prints or not so you must find what you can under certain parameters - i.e. immediate vicinity of the crime - access and egress routes to and from the home, blood smeared items etc.

If there is a print that cannot be identified the defense can claim it belongs to the real killer and the state has nothing to argue back unless they can prove the perp wore gloves. If all prints are identified, the defense can claim the perp must have worn gloves or LE did not find every print in the house. However, we know from the Dyleski case, that it can be determined if a perp wore gloves at the scene if they touched anything at all. This begs the question - how did the perp get out of the house without touching anything ?

Of course this all goes out the window if there is a print found within blood belonging to Michelle - LE must do everything to identify that print. Same with the murder weapon - if found and there is a print on it - LE must do everything to identify the print. If they cannot ID it - the defense has a hole big enough to drive a truck through.

This is what I believe Ocean is getting at. If they have a bloody print or a weapon with a print - they already know if it was Jason or not. If it is not Jason, they are still looking for who it is. Thus Ocean is correct, why would they still be gathering prints?

I think there are two scenarios;

Either LE has neither of these things (bloody print or weapon with print) but they have unidentifed prints from samples taken at the house

or

they have one of or both of the above but there are unidentifed prints in the bedroom or on door knobs or possibly the weapon itself and they must identify them.

JMO - wish I could figure how to say things in fewer words !