Mistrial, Hung Jury - Raven Abaroa Murder in the 1st

[borndem]

I am constantly amazed that circumstantial evidence gets such a bad rap. The judge tells them in instructions, they are to be given the same weight.
Because there is usually no video tape of the crime, it seems many today want to see absolute proof. I wish the courts could somehow better define "reasonable doubt" for the jurors. I think letting each define it for themselves is iffy at best. And this is even before they start deliberating.
This was such a logical, common sense kind of case. Are we getting too lazy to think things through these days? Eleven of them figured it out, I guess.
If there WERE absolute proof, most cases would be plead out - never even making it to a trial.
I wouldn't badger the hold out. I would just love to know what they got stuck on. I hope at least Char has a chance to talk to him/her to see if the problem area can be presented more clearly next time. Cuz next time, Raven will get what he deserves. And Janet's family can start to heal.

Ahhh, JJ, the Achilles' heel of justice: Reasonable Doubt. You have hit the nail on the head.

I have watched trials in several states, and in none of them have I heard a good, dependable explanation/definition of reasonable doubt. I still think that some folks are thinking something like, "beyond a shadow of a doubt," or some pure standard that cannot be met in human, everyday endeavors.

And, as we all have agreed, the CIS effect is in there, too. And if one piece of evidence or testimony (also evidence) is not believable, it doesn't taint the rest of the evidence, as I believe some people may think.

Reasonable Doubt: The bane of jury trials. Maddening. And apparently there is no cure.

.. :banghead:

 

[NCEast]

From WRAL's 8pm internet news:

Judge declares mistrial in Janet Abaroa murder case


Durham, N.C. — A Superior Court judge in Durham declared a mistrial Friday after a jury failed to reach a unanimous verdict in the first-degree murder trial of Raven Abaroa.

Abaroa, 33, is accused of fatally stabbing his 25-year-old wife, Janet Abaroa, three times in their Durham home on April 26, 2005.

Jurors deliberated for more than 10 hours since closing arguments Wednesday and told Judge Orlando Hudson twice Friday that they were deadlocked 11-1 in favor of guilt and "that no amount of deliberation will alter our decision."

Abaroa remained in the Durham County jail without bond Friday afternoon, and Durham County District Attorney Charlene Coggins-Franks said the state intends to retry the case. A new date could be set Thursday.

<mod snip>

http://www.wral.com/judge-declares-mistrial-in-janet-abaroa-murder-case/12503636/

 

[NCEast]

Ahhh, JJ, the Achilles' heel of justice: Reasonable Doubt. You have hit the nail on the head.

I have watched trials in several states, and in none of them have I heard a good, dependable explanation/definition of reasonable doubt. I still think that some folks are thinking something like, "beyond a shadow of a doubt," or some pure standard that cannot be met in human, everyday endeavors.

And, as we all have agreed, the CIS effect is in there, too. And if one piece of evidence or testimony (also evidence) is not believable, it doesn't taint the rest of the evidence, as I believe some people may think.

Reasonable Doubt: The bane of jury trials. Maddening. And apparently there is no cure.

.. :banghead:

I mentioned the same thing about reasonable doubt earlier today. It's hard to define, therefore it's bound to be difficult to comprehend. Doesn't mean no doubt, just reasonable doubt. That one issue may be what tripped up the juror today. CE is good stuff, sometimes people can't get past not having an eye witness account. People are less reliable sometimes than CE, it's been proven.
My head is about to blow up so I think I'm going to go lay down. I ate a bowl of homemade oyster stew, usually the heat from that helps but tonight it hasn't.
See yall tomorrow. Born, have fun at the beach, put this case in the back of your mind so you can relax and enjoy every moment you're there!

 

[Hadassah32]

Was the jury foreperson interviewed. Someone said he would be on at 6. I am in BC so I can't get all of your streaming news. Would love to see that interview thoughg

 

[borndem]

Originally Posted by gracielee [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9523205#post9523205"]

[/ame]
The Brad Cooper trial. :scared: I saw a few old names in my 'ignore file' from that one. That was a rough one, I got put in time out.

I didn't but somehow I got lucky and they overlooked a few of my remarks. I think almost everybody got put in time out during that trial. I am still in touch with a few people from back then.

I had to "take a vacation" from that one for a while on here, because I nearly got a life sentence on that forum... There was a little band of folks who did their best to get folks going, going, gone.... Whew. It was tough. But that man did it, of that I am confident. Another case of who else would want her dead. He had about 8,000 reasons a month to want Nancy dead. At least that's how he saw it...

Yes, the ignore button was/is a brilliant idea...

And some of us who were close buds in that one have also been on this forum for Janet, just as we were there then for Nancy. And for Michelle. <smh>

 

[borndem]

I was just loving on my dogs telling them how good they'd been all day while I've sat, now it's been 9 hours straight, here at the computer. Walked into another room and discovered they haven't been good at all. I thought they were asleep but at some point they tore up a bed pillow and made a puddle in the middle of the floor.

Hmmm, East, speaking of time-outs!!



"Bad dog, no biscuit!"

 

[terminatrixator]

[ if anyone wants to see some video: http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/12502845/#/vid12502845 ]

AWESOME!

This guy didn't do it, and judging by the comments on the internet, I'm assuming the split was 11 G - 1 NG.

I'm SO glad the judge didn't make them go back AGAIN. I feel really bad for that poor single juror, they probably were so rude to him.

They should NOT have to go back just so they can abuse a holdout.

This makes 2 out of the last 3 cases against a husband in Raleigh/Durham, NC that ended in a hung jury the first time around (Jason and Raven), not to mention Brad getting railroaded.

It's really hard to be a man in NC.

It should only be hard to be a man in North Carolina if you kill your wife. He did it. My prayers go out to ALL the jurors for the time and dedication, no matter how they voted.

 

[terminatrixator]

His mommy that said "f^%k" when the state was asking for a Sept retrial date.

Yeah, she probably has a vacation scheduled for then!

 

[NCEast]

GLEE and all, that Michael Peterson thing is airing right now on NBC. 8pm til 10pm tonight, Friday.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Feel better NCEast. Try to think southing thoughts if they can make it through the pain.
I give a pretty darn good massage if I do say so myself. Sending you a cyber one.

 

[terminatrixator]

They censored and edited Karyn Abaroa Bolton's "F Bomb".

 

[borndem]

Except when I talked about my cleavage. :blushing: :drumroll:

Oh, perk-perk, you know we love your cleavage. Really, we do!

Loud & Proud, Woman!

 

[JusticeJunkie]

GLEE and all, that Michael Peterson thing is airing right now on NBC. 8pm til 10pm tonight, Friday.

O/T I forgot Henry Lee's part in this. It's all coming back to me watching this. Thanks for the head's up. I'm hoping it's repeated later tonight so I can catch the first 45 min.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Trix, you are gracious about the holdout juror. It's hard not to want to blame someone for the pain Janet's family have to endure once again, and that person seems a likely target. The blame of course, rests on Raven.
But......since you're so level headed about it, can you please go talk to the person and find out why they voted NG? I want to tell Charlene. Who am I kidding - I want to know for US, too.
Do you think the attorneys got their usual chance to speak to them, or is that not common there?
I'll keep Janet's loved ones on my prayer list until this is done for them. I believe in the power of prayer.

 

[gracielee]

GLEE and all, that Michael Peterson thing is airing right now on NBC. 8pm til 10pm tonight, Friday.

Yes, I'm watching it now. What do you think?

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Yes, I'm watching it now. What do you think?

Whooooooooooooo Whooooooooooooo (that is an owl noise if you can't tell) killed her??

An owl? Really? I remember hearing that long ago, and laughing. I even think they're reaching with this blood spatter hope.
Michael did it IMO, and is where he should be.

OMG - it's "OUR" judge!! Didn't know that.

 

[terminatrixator]

Im too upset to read. Is there a bond? I do not want this guy out. Period, ever. I hope they retry and use a new da, they did a poor job, their case neededto b shored up. Also, when u hv a hold out they r refusing to deliberate and that is when u ask the judge to freaking remove the juror for refusing to deliberate. And bring in an alt. ppl no longer seem to know civics or american justice which is taught in ninth and eleventh grades. The foreperson should hv also known, to get rid or the juror who refused to deliberate. End of story.

Cherry, I think Charlene Coggins-Franks and Luke Bumm did an excellent job. They didn't resort to lying to get their points across like the DT did.

After waiting 8 long years for Justice and waiting for Justice since the day District Attorney Nifong took office, I think we couldn't have asked for a better Prosecution Team. It's a Circumstantial Evidence case and the problem is the CSI effect, and too many people expect cases to be tied up like in a 60 minute fake show.

Also, you can't bring an alternate once they are dismissed. That's not up to the foreperson to do.

I'm just as sad as all of you are and I have been in this forum for eight years waiting on Justice for Janet. I said it before and I'll say it again. Even if Raven was found Not Guilty, it doesn't mean he did not kill her. He's still a murderer imo. I would love to see Justice on this Earth and we still have a chance.

Prayers for the jurors tonight that they know they did the best job they could, prayers go out to the prosecution team, Judge Orlando Hudson and Janet's family & friends.

 

[Cherry]

The problem in getting rid of the problem juror was that there was not an alternate left. The judge released the alternate when deliberations began. I think the ADA did a pretty good job, which showed in her closing argument, else they would not have gotten 11 guilty votes.

I know...and i will b clear, i felt the judge erred, completly! As soon as that was done all i could do was rant and rave at hm. Very upsetting, everyone failed janet. Esp the state. Their case was lackluster at bst and i would demand a special procecutor.

 

[Cherry]

I hv to honestly disagree. They lacked passion and they failed to bring janet alive in that court rm, i knw i kept waiting ....and waiting.....maybe next day maybe the next.....closing arguments are not evidence. I honestly felt they did a really bad job, said so early on....not bashing but their case was also disjointed. I hope for the families sake a special prosecutor is brought in to retry this case. I hope, for no bond status as well. Doing well in a closing is one thing, i felt they just didnt hit that home run each day in that court rm. i sure wanted thm to, and i kept waiting. They had all they needed to convict but it was bad lawyering, immho (in my most humble opinion )ever.

 

[terminatrixator]

Trix, you are gracious about the holdout juror. It's hard not to want to blame someone for the pain Janet's family have to endure once again, and that person seems a likely target. The blame of course, rests on Raven.
But......since you're so level headed about it, can you please go talk to the person and find out why they voted NG? I want to tell Charlene. Who am I kidding - I want to know for US, too.
Do you think the attorneys got their usual chance to speak to them, or is that not common there?
I'll keep Janet's loved ones on my prayer list until this is done for them. I believe in the power of prayer.

I believe that the Prosecution will get a chance to talk to all the jurors in the near future, including the hold out. There is no reason to bash the hold out though. They sat there for a long time, listened to the evidence presented, listened to the arguments, 11 jurors sat with this person also. This is our system and we have to just allow our system to work.

I do not have to like the way the defense team ran their case though. I honestly felt that they tried to do the best for their client, but I believe 100% they know their client is not innocent and I cannot forgive the way they tried trashing Janet.

There were no winners today and even if Raven was found guilty, in the end nobody really wins, Janet's still dead, Kaiden still has gone eight years without his Mother, Janet's family still will suffer for the rest of their lives, the most important thing in all this is that Raven can no longer hurt another person.

Now we wait for the retrial.