MN MN - Amy Pagnac, 13, Osseo, 5 Aug 1989

princesspjs · Jul 26, 2014

Can you tell us which school Amy attended, what grade she was in at the time, any teachers she had and what year she would normally have graduated?

I'm willing to help you in any way that I can to find as many people as possible who used to know her!

princesspjs · Jul 26, 2014

Spagnac ~ I was very happy to come online late last night and see that you were able to read my responses. I thought I'd at least have your answers to where Amy went to school and what grade she was in, etc. I had to search online for a while but I finally found a caption to a picture that told me that she went to Osseo Junior High and was in the 7th grade during the 88/89 school year.

I created some .jpg for you (and all of us WS'ers - or anyone else for that matter) to use and share and get the word out that they want to speak to anyone who talked to Amy before she went missing.

Everyone, please post these to your facebooks(I'm not a facebooker), missing persons sites, comment sections of news articles or anywhere else that you think could get the word out.

Let's help them find Amy!

princesspjs · Jul 27, 2014

Spagnac,

Would Amy have graduated in 1994?

If 1994 is her graduation year Good news! The 20 year class reunion for Osseo High is coming up on August 9th. That will probably bring a lot of her classmates from out of the area back together in one place! Also the info should go out to the other area high schools since people do tend to move around a bit and it doesn't hurt.

It made me sad to see her name on the list of missing classmates, knowing that she was missing for such a different reason than the others on that list.

I also found another detective and phone number that Maple Grove PD is asking for anyone that remembers anything about Amy to call him as well.

The department is asking anyone that remembers anything about Amy to call the Maple Grove Police Detective Jon Wetternach at 763-494-6199

http://pressnews.com/2014/05/29/maple-grove-police-wrap-of-house-search-in-missing-person-case/

I can make new jpegs with the additional detective's info if you'd like me to. In the mean time, just to be on the safe side and to cover all of the bases, I would include something like this in the description when you post the picture:

The Maple Grove Police department is asking anyone that remembers anything about Amy Sue Pagnac to call Detective Jon Wetternach 763-494-6199, Detective Travis Pobuda 763-494-6195 or Crime Stoppers 1-800-222-TIPS.

Please share and ask your friends to share and get the word out. You could be the one who has the information that helps find Amy! Thank you.

That way they don't even need to click the picture to have the telephone numbers to call.

Trino · Jul 27, 2014

Nice photo efforts, but Amy would be nearly 40 years old today. It would be helpful to have an artist conception of what she might look like now.

human · Jul 27, 2014

Good point Trino. Are there some progressed photos?

I still am so wondering about when the parents were informed Amy was at a strip club as a minor.

No one went and looked and asked questions?

LE was not informed?

princesspjs · Jul 27, 2014

Trino said:
Nice photo efforts, but Amy would be nearly 40 years old today. It would be helpful to have an artist conception of what she might look like now.

If your comment is directed towards me and my "photo efforts", I used Amy's 7th grade photo in those because it is a plea for anyone who knew her before she went missing. That is how she looked and how she would be remembered.

I thought that was self explanatory.

Spagnac ~ You were again in this thread last night but there's no response from you. Do you have any other ideas on how to spread the word that we can help with?

human · Jul 27, 2014

That is an excellent point! Asking about her at the time.

I bet there are kids who knew things. I would imagine Amy confided in someone.

Who were her friends?

I am so concerned about the running away.

Kids do not run away for no reason. Never, ever.

Sure, a four year old may have some funny reason.

But a 13 year old that has run away several times, why?

She must have confided in someone!

human · Jul 27, 2014

Princess,
Can you get a hold of the reunion people and ask them to post the info on any websites or message boards they have?

I cannot imagine that Amy did not have a friend that she told some things to.

princesspjs · Jul 27, 2014

human said:
Princess,
Can you get a hold of the reunion people and ask them to post the info on any websites or message boards they have?

I cannot imagine that Amy did not have a friend that she told some things to.

Excellent idea!

What about this -- I could also create some small business card sized messages that they could print and put out at the reunion. That way anyone who had a tip could take the numbers home with them easily and call when it's convenient for them.

princesspjs · Jul 27, 2014

Trino · Jul 27, 2014

Re: mother disputing the report

Officers are much better trained today than 25 years ago. What training did LE have in 1989?

The MN Board of Peace Officer Standards was created in 1977. Standards applied only to new applicants.

Age progression photo:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pagnac_amy.html

human · Jul 27, 2014

Why did the mother do the report when she was not there?

princesspjs · Jul 27, 2014

Trino said:
Re: mother disputing the report

Officers are much better trained today than 25 years ago. What training did LE have in 1989?

The MN Board of Peace Officer Standards was created in 1977. Standards applied only to new applicants.

Age progression photo:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pagnac_amy.html

IMO a 5 year old could write down a few facts correctly. Shouldn't an adult person, even if they had never been trained in any observation skills be able to get some main points of an event as important as a child who had just:

a) suddenly got out of the car and just took off. (original police report)
b) disappeared while her father is doing a #2 in a gas station bathroom 2 miles away from home.
c) wandered off after probably having a seizure of some kind due to an unknown cause.
d) run away and had possibly gone to the Bridge for runaways in Minneapolis. If they call her from the Bridge to tell them that she's there, they will send a cab to pick her up. (possibility given in the original police report)
e) run away and had possibly gone to a friend's house.(possibility given in the original police report)

Those are the scenarios that have been given so far that I can remember off the top of my head right now. That was a good point though that was brought up - why would Maple Grove PD take a formal report of an incident from a person who wasn't even there? That doesn't make sense. There is probably another report but it wouldn't replace an officer's original report as it is the.original.report.

Pouring over these pesky little details like who was there at the time and how her disappearance actually happened hasn't helped to find Amy for the past 25 years. I applaud the Maple Grove PD's coming up with a new angle after all of these years. It's time to take another route and go to the people who actually knew her and spoke to her and find out what she talked about. Maybe she told someone why she kept running away. Maybe someone will finally feel comfortable confiding something that will find Amy, bring closure, peace of mind or justice. Whatever the case finding out the truth is what Amy deserves.

I'm not even going to look at any of the old stuff anymore - it's all just immediately disputed on here for some reason.

For now I'm going to focus on the current efforts and that is to get the word out on anyone who remembers anything about Amy to contact one of the two detectives.

eace:

Odyssey · Jul 27, 2014

spagnac said:
Amy was not promiscuous, did not drink alcohol, did not do drugs. She was a good person, and a good girl. She was a very caring, forgiving, and gentle person. Please stop telling, and repeating these lies about her. It is very mean and it serves no useful purpose toward finding Amy and bringing her home. She is still a good person and a good young woman. Can you imagine if she happens to read these horrific things, how do you think it is going to make her feel? For the record, we never made those statements to the police officer when he came to our house the day she went missing. And if you read a little further you'll find that the reporter even says we dispute his statement. Her real friends and their parents will also say the same thing, Amy was a very good person and a good girl.

Respectfully Snipped

I know I am responding to this over a month after the fact, but I think it's important to have an understanding of how these cases are looked at from a variety of perspectives.

I don't think anyone here was trying to judge Amy, or to insult her, or anything else of the sort. As I was reading through the thread, when I saw the indications (from news reports) that she may have been promiscuous, to me, it indicated a greater likelihood that she would have left voluntarily. People who leave voluntarily are much more likely to be found safe, even decades later.

That is the only reason I (and likely everyone here who has been doing this for awhile) would care if she was promiscuous or not. It would somewhat change the direction of where we might look.

The same goes for the possible previous runaway incidents - most children who run away for a long period of time have run away before, starting with just for a day or two, then a couple weeks, etc. They typically are rebelling against their parents and are often influenced by (so-called) friends. (I haven't seen any indication on this thread about what type of people she was hanging out with)

To me, hearing that Amy had no vices and was simply a good girl all the time is discouraging, because of course we all want her to be found safe. I wanted a reason to think it was likely that she ran away.

I just wanted to be sure that Amy's family understands that we are viewing it from a bit of a different perspective, and that there was no disrespect for Amy intended.

dogperson · Jul 28, 2014

Since we don't know for sure what Amy's medical diagnosis would have been, I would also like to suggest that the running away could be the result of a bipolar condition. I know several bipolar folks and have relatives with bipolar, and it seems that at younger ages they seemed to want to run around with older crowds, take off without warning, etc. Since a lot of people suffering with bipolar try to self-medicate, it kind of makes sense they might take off and run with an older crowd who would have access to alcohol and drugs. The problem is that you can then get mixed up with people who might mistreat or harm a young girl too naive to realize what's happening.

Trino · Jul 28, 2014

princesspjs said:
IMO a 5 year old could write down a few facts correctly. Shouldn't an adult person, even if they had never been trained in any observation skills be able to get some main points of an event as important as a child who had just:

a) suddenly got out of the car and just took off. (original police report)
b) disappeared while her father is doing a #2 in a gas station bathroom 2 miles away from home.
c) wandered off after probably having a seizure of some kind due to an unknown cause.
d) run away and had possibly gone to the Bridge for runaways in Minneapolis. If they call her from the Bridge to tell them that she's there, they will send a cab to pick her up. (possibility given in the original police report)
e) run away and had possibly gone to a friend's house.(possibility given in the original police report)

Those are the scenarios that have been given so far that I can remember off the top of my head right now. That was a good point though that was brought up - why would Maple Grove PD take a formal report of an incident from a person who wasn't even there? That doesn't make sense. There is probably another report but it wouldn't replace an officer's original report as it is the.original.report.

Pouring over these pesky little details like who was there at the time and how her disappearance actually happened hasn't helped to find Amy for the past 25 years. I applaud the Maple Grove PD's coming up with a new angle after all of these years. It's time to take another route and go to the people who actually knew her and spoke to her and find out what she talked about. Maybe she told someone why she kept running away. Maybe someone will finally feel comfortable confiding something that will find Amy, bring closure, peace of mind or justice. Whatever the case finding out the truth is what Amy deserves.

I'm not even going to look at any of the old stuff anymore - it's all just immediately disputed on here for some reason.

For now I'm going to focus on the current efforts and that is to get the word out on anyone who remembers anything about Amy to contact one of the two detectives. eace:

#2 is not exactly correct. He stopped to get gas, then went to the restroom.

princesspjs · Jul 28, 2014

Trino said:
#2 is not exactly correct. He stopped to get gas, then went to the restroom.

Why do you think that is such an important fact to put in my list?

ETA: Wasn't he stopping to get gas during all of these different stories?

Trino · Jul 28, 2014

princesspjs said:
Why do you think that is such an important fact to put in my list?

ETA: Wasn't he stopping to get gas during all of these different stories?

Not necessarily an important fact, but it's not factual, and what you posted certainly appeared to be a fact rather than an opinion.

human · Jul 29, 2014

Princess, I hope the time and effort you put in leads to something

Trino · Jul 30, 2014

I wonder who the Maple Grove LE has talked with. Surely, they have gone back into her past relationships, or, at least, one would hope so.

MN MN - Amy Pagnac, 13, Osseo, 5 Aug 1989

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