MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #11 - Chauvin Trial Day 8

[turaj]

Just from reading posts this morning, sounds like Stiger has made some good points for the prosecution?
Still reading.. of course, I don't get up early haha Will have to go back to earlier testimony on lunch break.

Frankly he is now doing pretty well for the defense..Nelson is on a roll with this guy

 

[Algo214]

I think while Nelson is indeed trying and doing a good job, this witness is not giving him an inch and this will be used against him in redirect.

 

[turaj]

Just from reading posts this morning, sounds like Stiger has made some good points for the prosecution?
Still reading.. of course, I don't get up early haha Will have to go back to earlier testimony on lunch break.

Frankly he is now doing pretty well for the defense..Nelson is on a roll with this guy

Nelson is doing a phenomenal job - I’m very impressed

He has this guy more on his side that expected

 

[ilovewings]

Upthread I posted an article which basically states you take your plaintiff as you get them (civil law)- or in criminal law, you take your perp as you get them. So if the perp ate drugs, had trouble breathing before Chauvin put his knee on his -- whatever, shoulder, neck, back-- that situation does not relieve the police from their duty NOT TO USE EXCESSIVE FORCE- their duty is not to physically harm the perp or cause the perp to be in worse shape than he was before they restrained him. You would agree with that, right (quoting Nelson )

 

[missy1974]

I found the clip on rewind with the 'I ate too many drugs'... I kinda hear it, but I read posts first... so thinking it's that confirmation bias thing, I already knew what to listen for. I don't think the officers would have heard that. jmo

 

[Weki]

Witness is holding up really well on cross. He’s answering questions appropriately but holding his ground when Nelson tries a sneak attack.

 

[missy1974]

We’re back to the angry mob scenario now. Is there anything in the body language of the four officers that suggested they felt in any way threatened by this ‘angry mob’?

So what would you be looking for?
Officers repeatedly had to tell them to get back on the sidewalk, to move to the sidewalk.
Chauvin at one point, grabbed his mace, not really sure why?
Thao pushing the people back to the sidewalk.
I think it's on Lane's body cam, he did say something like 'should we call for another car for crowd control'

So I'm not sure that you or I see them as an angry 'mob', but did they?

Again, these policies that they go by are all qualified with this BUT without the benefit of hindsight, what a reasonable officer would do/think/feel. Everything seems to be situational, not black and white at all.
jmo

 

[missy1974]

Frankly he is now doing pretty well for the defense..Nelson is on a roll with this guy

So a continuation of yesterday...

The prosecution witnesses should never make more points for the defense than the State. JMO

 

[CrimeAway]

We’re back to the angry mob scenario now. Is there anything in the body language of the four officers that suggested they felt in any way threatened by this ‘angry mob’?

IMO, I think that Nelson will use this perceived "threat" to explain why the officers
1) stayed behind the squad car (COVER)
2) wanted to "hold" GF in a position rather than move him (plus GF was initially resisting)
3) were not immediately aware of GF's change in physical condition and therefore
4) did not begin CPR on the scene.

Once again, I am not stating that anyone has to AGREE with that, but IMO, I think the above is why Nelson is using the presence of a crowd in his questioning.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Some notes from the pool reporter who is in the courtroom:

Seven jurors were taking notes when Stiger said he saw Chauvin use pain compliance on Floyd's hand.

This is the exhibit that was used to reference Stiger's observations.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379825972069994498?s=21

Pool reporter also noted that George Floyd's family member, who was in court today, kept his "eyes focused forward" and didn't "appear to be looking at a screen or visibly reacting" when the state played a short clip of Floyd pleading w/officers.

Eric Nelson continues to cross examine LAPD Sgt. Jody Stiger.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Doing a capture right now of timeframe due to what Nelson is saying (which is NOT evidence) MOO. This below is VERBATIM

Nelson Q: They stepped up ems to code 3. Would you agree that's about the time that people began to congregate?

A: Umm I would have to look at the video again, but yes, that's probably around the same time that... (this is end of his sentence in feed rewind)

Q. So if EMS was stepped up at 20:21:35, was about 90 seconds after the initial call, and Ms Frazier is seen coming into the area at 20:21 and roughly 17 seconds, it's about the same period of time, right?

A. Ms. Frazier, do you mean.....

Q. She is the bystander who started recording.

A. OK

Q. So She started recording at about this same time, right

A. Yes.

Q And she was concerned about what she saw, agreed?

A. Yes


------...

Here is timeline we have at WS covering that timeframe

MOO, is a DRAFT

20:21:00 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Lane body cam - Lane puts the item with a carabiner hook on it in the back of the squad car

20:21:09 Trial Day 3 screenshot of girl and cousin walking by and can hear sirens in background [e.d. we know from testinony that they walked by, older minor sent cousin into store and came back to scene]

20:21:14 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Thao body cam – LE heard to say “code 3”. [e.d. NOTE: There is not one person on the sidewalk at this time that I see on the body cam view, although shown and heard that the 61 y/o had been on scene.]

20:21:30 Trial Day 3 screenshot showing only 4 at the time on sidewalk (cashier, MMA guy, viral video girl and another I didn’t write in my notes)

THIS IS TIME DISCUSSED RIGHT NOW by Nelson. When DF who did the world wide video started filming and they are syncing the time

20:21:35 123096 - 330 EMS CODE 3 [e.d. Code 3 = get here quick with lights and sirens. Verified by Thoa BCA interview it was he who updgraded it after asking Elaine is ambulance coming, she said Code 2 yes, and he upgraded to CODE 3 because of the environment that was occuring the the hostile crowd Timestamp in interview 1:12:35-→>and Thao stated NOT due to concern with GF]

20:21:39 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Thao body cam – Seen on sidewalk at this time are two people #1) White shirt/jeans girl on sidewalk 2) Grey shirt/blue pants on sidewalk. No one else

20:22:30 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Keung body cam – GF sounding very weak now when

speaking

Q. And then based on your review of all your body cameras, Ms. Frazier, she wasn't saying anything intially right?

A. I don't believe she was.

Q. She was simply there recording right? She was not in any way interfering with what the police were doing.. but more people started coming to gather, right?



people began to congregate.

 

[wasnt_me]

My main issue with Nelson is that he is asking many questions that don't pertain to the situaton. When he asks, for example, about the crowd being a distraction, my first thought is -- "but they wanted him to render aid. Had he done that, they wouldn't be upset."

I also do not like Nelson's deceptiveness. That play with the "knee on the neck/not on the neck" was deplorable. Several experienced police officials have seen it and fired DC because of it. The officers who were with him said in their BCA interviews that it the knee was on the neck. You can see in these officers' cams that the knee was on the neck. You can even see in Lang's cam that DC had to move his knee so the EMS could check the neck.

I hope the jurors recognize his tactic instead of using it as an excuse to hang the jury.

This thing with the crowd is really weak. I saw 13 people standing on a curb. If the crowd was so bad, why didn't Thomas Lane go help Tau with the crowd? If you look at Lane's body cam, he is barely holding on to Floyd's legs. At some point, he is not touching Floyd at all. I wish the prosecution would bring this up.

If these four couldn't handle that crowd, they should never have been police to start with.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Nelson: And so, the mere fact that force is being applied, it's not, second by second, we have to look at it in a longer context, right?
Stiger: Yes, but you're constantly reassessing during that timeframe.

N: Simply because a person is not fighting with you...that doesn't mean you still can't use some sort of force to control me.
S: It depends on the circumstance.
N: According to MPD, if someone is passively resisting you...force can still be used.
S: Yes, it certain instances.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379830206526070799?s=21

 

[Boodles]

Dear Nelson,
That horse is dead. Please stop beating it.

Thank you.

#bigscarycrowd

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think the State is regreting calling this witness.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Nelson asks Stiger if he saw the Derek Chauvin took phase one defensive tactics in-service training last year. Stiger confirms.

Nelson is now showing Stiger some of those materials.

Nelson asks to present the entire in-service training materials for that course.

Schleicher objects citing foundation.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379831027703627777?s=21

Schleicher reviews and then says "no objection."

N: Officers are trained crowds are dynamic creatures, and can change rapidly, right.
S: In this particular training for large crowds, correct.
N: But even in small crowds, even if you have 10 people or 12 people, crowds are dynamic creatures.
S: Yes

N: Ultimately, when an officer is on scene and he's making a decision to use force and a crowd assembles, whether they're peaceful or not peaceful..an reasonable officer has to be aware of what they're doing.
S: Absolutely.

 

[delilah]

So what would you be looking for?
Officers repeatedly had to tell them to get back on the sidewalk, to move to the sidewalk.
Chauvin at one point, grabbed his mace, not really sure why?
Thao pushing the people back to the sidewalk.
I think it's on Lane's body cam, he did say something like 'should we call for another car for crowd control'

So I'm not sure that you or I see them as an angry 'mob', but did they?

Again, these policies that they go by are all qualified with this BUT without the benefit of hindsight, what a reasonable officer would do/think/feel. Everything seems to be situational, not black and white at all.
jmo

I don’t think they actually called for backup, did they?
I may be assuming a bit too much here but I would expect that a police officer in a large metropolitan area in the US is used to dealing with far angrier mobs than a couple of blokes, and old man, some kids and a shouty woman.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I heard that on the replay, although I think that the last word was difficult to make out.

IMO, Nelson is doing his job by asking questions. He is seeking to paint a picture of what the officers perceived and experienced from their, or specifically the defendant's point of view.

Remember, Graham vs. Connor states that the "reasonableness of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 benefit of hindsight" (BBM).

Graham v. Connor - Wikipedia

IMO, you do not have to like the questions that Nelson asks, but I think he has a very good reason for asking them, in his role as defense counsel.

... and then we go back to Lane, who said MULTIPLE times as to check pulse, roll on side for recovery position.. etc. All that is indeed in evidence.

 

[JerseyGirl]

N: If I say, hello Sgt. Steiger vs Hello Sgt. Steiger! There's two different tones and my tone can convey meaning...if start calling you names that conveys a meaning.
S: Yes.

N: Saying things like you're a p****, You're a b**** that conveys a particular intent.
S: I wouldn't say an intent. I would say it depends on officers training and experience.

https://twitter.com/anavilastra/status/1379832570444197893?s=21

 

[missy1974]

I think the State is regreting calling this witness.

Oh I'm watching now.. if they aren't, they should be. JMO

So basically, this guy just confirmed that MMA guy could/should have been viewed as a threat, that he was exhibiting behaviour that an officer is trained to be viewed as a threat.

Ok.. is the State just not preparing these witnesses? Is Nelson just that good?