MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #13 - Chauvin Trial Day 10

[delilah]

This witness seems to get confused easily.

I think that was because some of Nelson’s questions did not make sense to Dr Thomas. At times he was just reading out stuff that had been written by someone else and was stumbling over complex medical terms. I thought he was totally outgunned by Thomas - hardly surprising given her level of experience - and she was getting irritated by some of his silly hypotheticals.

 

[Katerz]

I really can’t stand listening to this Julie grant woman on court tv

 

[delilah]

Not very many in my opinion. He’s stammering so bad and he’s asking too many hypotheticals and removing his client’s involvement. And him just saying let’s say I walked up and strangled you. Ummmm what lol

But did you notice he didn’t quite say that - I guess he thought the image of a male defence counsel strangling a female prosecution witness was unlikely to go down well with the jury...

 

[Rhozwen]

Forgive my naivety here, this is the first case I’ve paid so close attention to this aspect of things, but is it common for so many people to testify to the cause and manner of death? I did a little research before jumping in here late, but it seems like there are some differing opinions from medical professionals. Particularly in the wording. I just assumed the person(s) who performed the autopsy and completed the death certificate would be the only one(s) a jury should put stock in.

I have my opinions and I know everyone else does. I’m not arguing facts, just questioning the standards when it comes to trials. TIA!

ETA: Let me clarify: I understand witnesses can give their opinions (I think), but is the jury given special instruction on that? Or is it just unspoken that they should know and use their judgement. I guess I’m not sure what I’m trying to ask.

I don't think it is unusual to have multiple experts to testify on manner of death in a murder trial. I have followed trials where the body was too decomposed to have a clear understanding of cause and manner of death, or where no body was found and prosecution and defense both had their own experts testify to their professional opinion as to the cause of death. There have been trials where the order of injuries were under scrutiny to determine crime of passion vs pre-meditation.
As for this trial, I think the question of manner of death is such a focus because the defendant's alleged crime was committed during active duty for which his societal responsibility was to protect and serve. What is being brought into question is excessive use of force and if that was the cause of death.

 

[Katerz]

But did you notice he didn’t quite say that - I guess he thought the image of a male defence counsel strangling a female prosecution witness was unlikely to go down well with the jury...

He started to, then changed it to someone else. Lol I was like what!

 

[Chelly]

@cathyrusson
·
6m
#DerekChauvinTrial - More info on juror that was questioned this morning. Pool reporter says she sits in seat #11. My notes show this is PJ#55, white woman, 50s. Hobby: rides motorcycles, it was her late husband's passion. Single mom, 1 older child, 1 teenager.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

O

I think that was because some of Nelson’s questions did not make sense to Dr Thomas. At times he was just reading out stuff that had been written by someone else and was stumbling over complex medical terms. I thought he was totally outgunned by Thomas - hardly surprising given her level of experience - and she was getting irritated by some of his silly hypotheticals.

I would agree if she had simply asked for clarification. Instead she froze up. JMO

 

[Legally Bland]

Forgive my naivety here, this is the first case I’ve paid so close attention to this aspect of things, but is it common for so many people to testify to the cause and manner of death? I did a little research before jumping in here late, but it seems like there are some differing opinions from medical professionals. Particularly in the wording. I just assumed the person(s) who performed the autopsy and completed the death certificate would be the only one(s) a jury should put stock in.

I have my opinions and I know everyone else does. I’m not arguing facts, just questioning the standards when it comes to trials. TIA!

ETA: Let me clarify: I understand witnesses can give their opinions (I think), but is the jury given special instruction on that? Or is it just unspoken that they should know and use their judgement. I guess I’m not sure what I’m trying to ask.

This is the State proposed jury instruction on expert witnesses, hope this helps:
_____

EXPERT TESTIMONY

A witness who has special training, education, or experience in a particular science, occupation, or calling is allowed to express an opinion as to certain facts. In determining the believability and weight to be given such opinion evidence, you may consider:

(1)The education, training, experience, knowledge, and ability of the witness;

(2)The reasons given for the opinion;

(3)The sources of the information; and

(4)Factors already given to you for evaluating the testimony of any witness.
​

Such opinion evidence is entitled to neither more nor less consideration by you than any other evidence.

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/me...646/StateProposedJuryInstructions02082021.pdf

ETA: At a glance the Defense proposed instructions for this look exactly the same.

 

[ACE422]

I thought someone had mentioned that Chauvin’s reaction when GF had been pronounced dead was caught on video. Does anyone happen to know where that video is (if it does exist?) .

 

[MadMcGoo]

I don't think it is unusual to have multiple experts to testify on manner of death in a murder trial. I have followed trials where the body was too decomposed to have a clear understanding of cause and manner of death, or where no body was found and prosecution and defense both had their own experts testify to their professional opinion as to the cause of death. There have been trials where the order of injuries were under scrutiny to determine crime of passion vs pre-meditation.
As for this trial, I think the question of manner of death is such a focus because the defendant's alleged crime was committed during active duty for which his societal responsibility was to protect and serve. What is being brought into question is excessive use of force and if that was the cause of death.

This is the State proposed jury instruction on expert witnesses, hope this helps:
_____

EXPERT TESTIMONY

A witness who has special training, education, or experience in a particular science, occupation, or calling is allowed to express an opinion as to certain facts. In determining the believability and weight to be given such opinion evidence, you may consider:

(1)The education, training, experience, knowledge, and ability of the witness;

(2)The reasons given for the opinion;

(3)The sources of the information; and

(4)Factors already given to you for evaluating the testimony of any witness.
​

Such opinion evidence is entitled to neither more nor less consideration by you than any other evidence.

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/me...646/StateProposedJuryInstructions02082021.pdf

ETA: At a glance the Defense proposed instructions for this look exactly the same.

Thank you both! This helps.

 

[kittythehare]

I thought someone had mentioned that Chauvin’s reaction when GF had been pronounced dead was caught on video. Does anyone happen to know where that video is (if it does exist?) .

I never saw a video of that description, that I recall easily.

 

[Chelly]

Bottom line:
Prosecution - is attempting to prove GF died from lack of oxygen/asphyxiation and is doing a good job of it.

Defense - must prove GF died of a drug overdose and needs to do an even better job it of it. MO

 

[MadMcGoo]

We’re back! With Dr.Baker.

 

[Katerz]

Dr. Baker is.. I don’t know. He’s rubbing me the wrong way for some reason. lol. But he’s talking waaaaaaaaaaaay too fast.

 

[Chelly]

@cathyrusson
·
12m
#DerekChauvinTrial - WATCH: Have you seen this in-depth look at Judge Peter Cahill? Fun fact: He's a fan of the Rolling Stones, AC/DC & Ozzy Osbourne. Also, while driving away one day, he rolled down window and gave the "hang loose" sign to photogs.
@cathyrusson
·
1m
WATCH LIVE: The state calls county medical examiner, Dr. Andrew Baker. He performed the autopsy on #GeorgeFloyd.

 

[Katerz]

Oh my goodness I don’t think Nelson can keep up with the notes and I can’t keep up lol. So fast

 

[Rhozwen]

Dr. Baker is.. I don’t know. He’s rubbing me the wrong way for some reason. lol. But he’s talking waaaaaaaaaaaay too fast.

He does appear to be a little uptight in comparison to the relaxed demeanor of the previous expert witnesses. It isn't as distracting as some expert witnesses can be.
He seems incredibly thorough and his testimony is what I have been waiting for.

 

[Katerz]

He does appear to be a little uptight in comparison to the relaxed demeanor of the previous expert witnesses. It isn't as distracting as some expert witnesses can be.
He seems incredibly thorough and his testimony is what I have been waiting for.

maybe that’s it. The others have been so calm and relaxed. Lol I like how intensely he watches everything going on.

 

[MsBetsy]

We’re back! With Dr.Baker.

I hope he's asked about the stress factor Dr. Thomas talked about. According to the Star Tribune article, Baker said that the exertion of the arrest "was more than Floyd could handle," and "likely increased his heart rate and adrenaline levels while placing greater demand on his breathing."

That sounds to me like he's saying Chauvin's actions were a significant factor in Floyd's death. Imo

 

[Katerz]

I can’t imagine seeing these photos after eating lunch.