MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #5 - Chauvin Trial Day 2

[nightowl1975]

It's funny how our various observations here might reflect a jury because I don't view the defense attorney as unlikable. I also think he did an excellent job by getting the last witness to state how unusual it was for medical to arrive so late. He's going to claim police called for medical and because they were delayed is why GF died. I dont believe it but he's laid the foundation with the last witness.

Im in the Chauvin is guilty camp but the defense attorney did his job well this afternoon.

The glaring problem with this would be it’s no different than if I stabbed someone and they bled to death because the ambulance took too long, that doesn’t mean I’m any less guilty of murder for stabbing them.

 

[Rocky1]

For me what is more important is that as an EMT she KNEW what she was looking at and was frantically trying to get the man in danger some help to no avail. Whether it was her or a LEO providing some aid I don’t think is important. It’s that yet another witness comes on scene and pleads for help for this man who was dying before everyone’s eyes. And that witness happened to be an EMT.

I agree. I'm not saying her way of thinking was wrong at all. I think she was spot on. However, why would a cop believe she was an EMT?

 

[margarita25]

Especially when the defense attorney was very unassuming,and respectful to the witness.

I believe her testimony, but I don't think she should have been combative for there was no need to do so or come across like she knows everything acting like the defense lawyer is stupid.

It's just not warranted.

Jmho

I agree. Two years on the job and she knows it all. I may be wrong, but the impression I got is she's the type that thinks the MLPS FD would fall flat on their face without her.

(I look forward to weighing in. Haven’t gotten to the “combative” part yet)

I agree. I'm not saying her way of thinking was wrong at all. I think she was spot on. However, why would a cop believe she was an EMT?

This is why I was asking if she ever said, “hey, remember me from yesterday, I was on that call with you...”.

 

[Rocky1]

And also to your previous post.

So what is their defense, "he would've stopped earlier if the Ambulance had shown up before" ? that's not gonna hold at all.

I'm not sure what their defense is yet. The trial has just started. Chauvin has to own the video, we know that, so, the defense has to raise doubt anyway they can. The more doubt they raise, the better for them.

 

[jennieohhh]

Yeah Nelson showed that he can be a real jerk, but I don’t think that discredited the witnesses.

In what way? The firefighter was reprimanded by the judge for arguing with Nelson, but okay, Nelson was the jerk. Shur!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Lane, his partner Kueng, and Chauvin knew he didn't have a pulse. (Lane's partner Kueng checks at 18:03 and says "I can't find one"..and Lane and his partner then get off of GF at that time...and other times in video below they check) EMT knew he didn't have a pulse. That's the first thing they did when on EMS got on scene as shown in video below toward the end. (Can be seen more clearly on the bystander video which we've seen)

The reason they loaded and left so quickly, and told them they were going to a few blocks away was because at 20:15 it was said by LE "lets' get him out of here", probably due to the gathering crowd MOO. The video posted upthread toward the end shows Lane in the ambulance and what was done to finally give mechanical compressions at 59:13:00. It also shows that as Lane leaves, he comes back to the ambulance and the mechanical compressions that were going on had ended at 1:04:35.

MOO

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*bump* for @margarita25 as this post if you expand it has the video WITH timestamp of when pulse was checked once and he said no pulse.

HTH

 

[margarita25]

Day 2, starts here:

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*Begins with defense’s cross examination of Williams.

*bump* for @margarita25 as this post if you expand it has the video WITH timestamp of when pulse was checked once and he said no pulse.

HTH

(see my above “DUH” post, yes, thank you Dixie)

 

[Rocky1]

Then let me ask this, sort of off topic. Let’s say you are involved in a serious car accident and you’re severely injured and waiting for first responders after someone has called 911, and a nurse/doctor/firefighter that’s off duty comes running up stating who they are.. are you going to deny them to let them help until they prove they’re who they say they are??

these cops, especially DC, knew what they were doing. They knew they should have rendered first aid, but refused to do so. They knew he was dying. DC was getting pleasure from showing the authority he was showing. JMO. They didn’t let her in because she would’ve tried to save him. If she were a male (not as the same as Donald Williams or GF, I’m not going to say it but you can see my reference to that), they may have let her in.

I wouldn't deny them, no, however, when you are placed under arrest, not only are the cops responsible for your safety, but they are also responsible for your property, so if they leave your car on the side of the road, and someone breaks into it while you are on your way to the police station in the cruiser, they are responsible for that too. That's the difference.
I'm not saying all that didn't go out the window here, but that's the difference.

You are right. They know now they should have rendered first aid, but at the time, if they didn't think his life was in danger would they have known then? That's why they are on trial.

 

[happyday]

In what way? The firefighter was reprimanded by the judge for arguing with Nelson, but okay, Nelson was the jerk. Shur!

He asked her a question, then rudely cut her off and she snapped back by trying to continue answering it. She shouldn’t have argued with the judge, but I’m just saying her testimony was VERY damaging and I don’t think the defense attorney getting her worked up will change anything.

 

[margarita25]

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[mom2chloe]

Or what if something happened to her?

When LE or any first responders are dealing with a perp that they either know or suspect is on drugs, what is the protocol for dealing with that? I would be terrified if I thought someone was on fentanyl simply because I know it only takes a tiny amount to kill you. Would you be afraid the perp is going to spit on you or worse yet spit the drugs out of their mouth or system in an effort to hide the fact? Scary situation IMO and I would be protecting myself and my fellow first responders.
Hopefully we will learn more about what first responders do in similar situations. When panic and/or fear ensues sometimes common sense goes out the door. IMO

 

[tara83]

I wouldn't deny them, no, however, when you are placed under arrest, not only are the cops responsible for your safety, but they are also responsible for your property, so if they leave your car on the side of the road, and someone breaks into it while you are on your way to the police station in the cruiser, they are responsible for that too. That's the difference.
I'm not saying all that didn't go out the window here, but that's the difference.

You are right. They know now they should have rendered first aid, but at the time, if they didn't think his life was in danger would they have known then? That's why they are on trial.

Someone saying they can't breathe should be a clue.Even if they though he was faking it should have been checked.Bystanders saw he was in trouble but experienced cops were clueless?Sorry not buying it.

 

[jennieohhh]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> She is also an EMT, which her training provides basic and advanced care to patients during their transportation to a healthcare facility, like administering oxygen & cpr. It's very different than a paramedic who can administer medications, start ivs etc. She is not an expert in life saving treatments or assessment skills imo.

 

[SouthAussie]

I noticed her quick blame shifting...to the LE, to the EMS and dispatchers. All government employees. She possibly created an unhealthy atmosphere in and with those departments. She may have made a few enemies, and made a name for herself.

It is not blame shifting, though, when a witness is pointing her finger at the officers responsible for cutting off George's airways. As well as minimising his lungs capacity for holding oxygen by placing their weight on him.

I think she was effective. A distraught professional who could not help on that horrible day. One she will relive in her mind forever.

It seems evident, to me, that her emotions about it are still hovering right beneath the surface. She hasn't been able to put it in a box and file it away. And may never be able to do that.

I find it difficult to critique the helpless bystanders for their thoughts and emotions, as they relive those horrible moments.

 

[happyday]

I’m thinking part of the defense’s strategy is to paint all the witnesses as angry and unruly, getting them worked up to show “See! They’re just angry!” I don’t really know what other defense they could possibly come up with. I don’t think it’s going to work. You’ve got a handful of kids and an off duty FF who were using their voices to convince the LE that GF was dying right in front of them. What a mob of angry thugs!

 

[Rocky1]

The glaring problem with this would be it’s no different than if I stabbed someone and they bled to death because the ambulance took too long, that doesn’t mean I’m any less guilty of murder for stabbing them.

Unless it was drugs that killed him, right?

 

[happyday]

Someone saying they can't breathe should be a clue.Even if they though he was faking it should have been checked.Bystanders saw he was in trouble but experienced cops were clueless?Sorry not buying it.

I’m not buying it either, and I can’t imagine the jury will. If he was too stupid to realize GF was dying right under his knee, he had several bystanders telling him exactly that. Maybe the defense will say he is hard of hearing and thought GF and all the witnesses were saying that he could breathe?!

 

[kaen]

It's funny how our various observations here might reflect a jury because I don't view the defense attorney as unlikable. I also think he did an excellent job by getting the last witness to state how unusual it was for medical to arrive so late. He's going to claim police called for medical and because they were delayed is why GF died. I dont believe it but he's laid the foundation with the last witness.

Im in the Chauvin is guilty camp but the defense attorney did his job well this afternoon.

The defense attorney doesn't have a lot to work with, IMO. Can't claim that it was just medical because when they realized that he was unconscious they did not place him in a rescue position or check his breathing but rather continued to kneel on his neck. If he was unconscious, they had a responsibility to give him aid, which they did not. Once he was unconscious there was no need to restrain him with the body weight of three men.

 

[Rocky1]

I don't think that's fair at all.I would be furious if I watched a guy being murdered and knowing you have the skills to save them but aren't allowed to.

I agree and I would be furious too, however, I was talking about the way she talked in the courtroom, and not the way she acted on the scene.

 

[SouthAussie]

Unless it was drugs that killed him, right?

That is going to be a hard sell. imo

No recovery position used. No-one rendering first aid. All officers fired from the police department. City already admitting culpability.