GUILTY MN - George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[missy1974]

So the 2019 arrest is all news to me.

Some of Floyd's 2019 arrest evidence admissible in Chauvin trial, judge rules

Very interesting IMO.

I also feel so very sad that Mr Floyd went down the path he did. He made mistakes, like we all do. He surely made bad choices, as many of us have done, and ultimately, I think he needed help.

I think he was exploited on that fateful day in May 2020, and that set up a chain of events, a perfect storm, that led tragically to his death.

I think several people bear responsibility for that chain of events.

I am also left with a painful sense that we as a society are failing the "Floyd's" of our world (IMO).

That being said, the trial is ongoing, and we have yet to see all the evidence. I hope y'all (and the jury), sleep well and not too much caffeine is needed tomorrow.

My heart goes out to anyone struggling with life in general, and especially substance abuse. I think that there needs to be more help for people.

well said @CrimeAway and I couldn't agree more.

 

[missy1974]

Moo...I'm thinking the camera fell off when DC was holding him up.
They put GF in on the sidewalk side but removed him from the street side. DC was sliding him out, GF tried to turn face down, as he slide out DC holds him around the waist ...like a hug. Moo....I'm thinking its someone else supporting the back of his neck, but hey I could be wrong. Its all confusing and then pieces of video.
Hopeful more video will unfold to clear up unanswered questions.
Moo....

I think it is Chauvin's hands around his neck.

1:40 of this video, it's clear:

 

[CrimeAway]

well said @CrimeAway and I couldn't agree more.

Thank you!

This is a very emotive case, and I'm thankful for all the posters who try to impartially examine the evidence, WS for providing a place of (mostly) rational discourse, and @Sillybilly for keeping the peace

 

[SouthAussie]

I can't judge where DC weight would have been based on the one photo.
What I can say is when I duplicate the position in the photo my weight is on my right leg, I can't apply weight to my left leg and keep my foot sideways without pain or turning my foot to a toe to pavement position.
Just try it, its much harder than it looks in the photo, to apply any pressure to the left leg with the ankle turned. Yes, if I keep my ankle straight I can apply full pressure, no problem.

Okay, I just tried it. Exact pose. Using a firm cushion as George's neck. I easily had all of my weight on the cushion with my ankle turned and balancing on my left knee and left big toe ... leaning slightly forward. Right leg behind and in same position.

I would recommend that others try it and see for themselves.

I am probably about as fit (or thereabouts) and flexible as Chauvin. Though likely nowhere near as physically strong.

So, I am going to have to strongly disagree with you. It is very possible for Chauvin to have had the majority of his weight pressing down on George's neck.

 

[Simply Southern]

So the 2019 arrest is all news to me.

Some of Floyd's 2019 arrest evidence admissible in Chauvin trial, judge rules

Very interesting IMO.

I also feel so very sad that Mr Floyd went down the path he did. He made mistakes, like we all do. He surely made bad choices, as many of us have done, and ultimately, I think he needed help.

I think he was exploited on that fateful day in May 2020, and that set up a chain of events, a perfect storm, that led tragically to his death.

I think several people bear responsibility for that chain of events.

I am also left with a painful sense that we as a society are failing the "Floyd's" of our world (IMO).

That being said, the trial is ongoing, and we have yet to see all the evidence. I hope y'all (and the jury), sleep well and not too much caffeine is needed tomorrow.

My heart goes out to anyone struggling with life in general, and especially substance abuse. I think that there needs to be more help for people.

So well said and thank you.

 

[missy1974]

Okay, I just tried it. Exact pose. Using a firm cushion as George's neck. I easily had all of my weight on the cushion with my ankle turned and balancing on my left knee and left big toe ... leaning slightly forward. Right leg behind and in same position.

I would recommend that others try it and see for themselves.

I am probably about as fit (or thereabouts) and flexible as Chauvin. Though likely nowhere near as physically strong.

So, I am going to have to strongly disagree with you. It is very possible for Chauvin to have had the majority of his weight pressing down on George's neck.

Interesting. I tried it with my son, and as soon as I tried to put all my weight on that knee, my ankle turned. Almost like an involunatary reflex.

Thanks for trying it. Interesting.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think it is Chauvin's hands around his neck.

1:40 of this video, it's clear:

Interesting how Chauvin's first reaction is to grab Floyd's neck. Somehow I don't think it was because he was concerned about preventing any injuries. I wonder if he is the one that caused the cuts around Floyd's mouth.

 

[MadMcGoo]

This is awful. I want badly to comment and share my thoughts, but I also don’t like conflict and I’m likely among the unpopular opinion. I will say that I don’t envy anyone in this case. I can only imagine being in each one of their shoes.

 

[SouthAussie]

Interesting. I tried it with my son, and as soon as I tried to put all my weight on that knee, my ankle turned. Almost like an involunatary reflex.

Thanks for trying it. Interesting.

I don't know what you mean about 'ankle turned'. Chauvin's ankle is turned, and mine was (purposely) in that same position. Resting on the big toe part of the shoe.

It is impossible to put your weight anywhere else but on the left knee when your ankle is in the same position as Chauvin's was. If you try to put your weight on your right knee, your right knee hurts due to the hard surface below it.

 

[SouthAussie]

This is awful. I want badly to comment and share my thoughts, but I also don’t like conflict and I’m likely among the unpopular opinion. I will say that I don’t envy anyone in this case. I can only imagine being in each one of their shoes.

I think you are safe to say whatever you want, within TOS. There seems to be a fair balance of people here who feel either one way or another or another (did I mention, or another )

 

[missy1974]

This is awful. I want badly to comment and share my thoughts, but I also don’t like conflict and I’m likely among the unpopular opinion. I will say that I don’t envy anyone in this case. I can only imagine being in each one of their shoes.

I hope you feel free to post, WS's tries very hard to allow all opinions It is not always easy to feel like you are in the minority (been there, done that haha), but I bet if you are thinking it, there are others that are out there just reading that may be thinking the same.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I think you are safe to say whatever you want, within TOS. There seems to be a fair balance of people here who feel either one way or another or another (did I mention, or another )

I’m one who prefers to save judgement until I’ve heard all the evidence and testimony (I consider myself a perfect juror ).

I only started following this case yesterday, after my mom expressed her strong opinion about the trial. Curiosity killed this cat. I googled GF’s name and within 30 seconds agreed with all she’d told me; this was cold blooded murder. Then I spent the majority of today researching....my opinion changed.

I’ve worked in various fields of law enforcement and although it’d seem I have a biased opinion, that couldn’t be further from the truth.

I watched several media reports on the incident along with multiple body cam footages, so I got a relatively good idea of what occurred that day. It was hard to watch. As I was watching these I tried to understand why my mom was so polarized. I think it was because I’ve been in the shoes of both DC and GF (unfortunately), that I was not polarized.

GF did not deserve to die that day and I can completely understand why DC did what he did in that situation. To a certain extent. I do believe he erred in those last few minutes and I certainly would like to think I’d have had my wits about me to do the right thing. I do not think he responded to that call with the intention of ending a man’s life. Nor do I believe he believed he was, in those moments, about to end that man’s life.

The crowd. Well, until you’re in a similar situation will you ever fathom the fear that might cause. Seven people surrounding you in a normal environment or situation is entirely different than as many people yelling at you in this type of situation. Which I agree that they were mostly trying to do good. But... hindsight and adrenaline.

I watched as the officer who rode in the ambulance after GF was taken away performed CPR. This was gut wrenching. So many emotions came over me. I could see the lifelessness in G’s body. I could feel what the officer was probably feeling. This all occurred over the course of minutes. It must have felt like an eternity for all involved.

Again, I do not envy ANYONE involved with this.

ETA: When I say “you”... I’m not referring to you in particular LOL... guess I shouldn’t have quoted you.

 

[missy1974]

I don't know what you mean about 'ankle turned'. Chauvin's ankle is turned, and mine was (purposely) in that same position. Resting on the big toe part of the shoe.

It is impossible to put your weight anywhere else but on the left knee when your ankle is in the same position as Chauvin's was. If you try to put your weight on your right knee, your right knee hurts due to the hard surface below it.

Respectively, I think that you are I are just not seeing the same thing in the video/videos. You see his hand in a pocket, I don't. You see him balancing on his toe of his shoe, I do not see that in the full video, I do see it at moments, but not the whole time, and I definitely do not see him on the ball of his left foot, which is what happened to my own foot when I tried to shift my weight to my left knee. (or even his foot in the air, which would indicate weight shifted to his knee maybe?)

That being said, I am actually very open to the possibility that what I think I see may not be the case now because... well.. after today, I question a lot more. Maybe its the camera angle. JMO

It's interesting because it makes me wonder about the 12 jurors. Are they all going to "see" it the same way?

All JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I’m one who prefers to save judgement until I’ve heard all the evidence and testimony (I consider myself a perfect juror ).

I only started following this case yesterday, after my mom expressed her strong opinion about the trial. Curiosity killed this cat. I googled GF’s name and within 30 seconds agreed with all she’d told me; this was cold blooded murder. Then I spent the majority of today researching....my opinion changed.

I’ve worked in various fields of law enforcement and although it’d seem I have a biased opinion, that couldn’t be further from the truth.

I watched several media reports on the incident along with multiple body cam footages, so I got a relatively good idea of what occurred that day. It was hard to watch. As I was watching these I tried to understand why my mom was so polarized. I think it was because I’ve been in the shoes of both DC and GF (unfortunately), that I was not polarized.

GF did not deserve to die that day and I can completely understand why DC did what he did in that situation. To a certain extent. I do believe he erred in those last few minutes and I certainly would like to think I’d have had my wits about me to do the right thing. I do not think he responded to that call with the intention of ending a man’s life. Nor do I believe he believed he was, in those moments, about to end that man’s life.

The crowd. Well, until you’re in a similar situation will you ever fathom the fear that might cause. Seven people surrounding you in a normal environment or situation is entirely different than as many people yelling at you in this type of situation. Which I agree that they were mostly trying to do good. But... hindsight and adrenaline.

I watched as the officer who rode in the ambulance after GF was taken away performed CPR. This was gut wrenching. So many emotions came over me. I could see the lifelessness in G’s body. I could feel what the officer was probably feeling. This all occurred over the course of minutes. It must have felt like an eternity for all involved.

Again, I do not envy ANYONE involved with this.

I agree about many things. I don't think Chauvin intended to end George's life. But he was negligent.
And I feel for Lane. He tried to do the right thing, as much as he could. Torn between procedure and what a training officer was telling him.

 

[MsBetsy]

Okay, I just tried it. Exact pose. Using a firm cushion as George's neck. I easily had all of my weight on the cushion with my ankle turned and balancing on my left knee and left big toe ... leaning slightly forward. Right leg behind and in same position.

I would recommend that others try it and see for themselves.

I am probably about as fit (or thereabouts) and flexible as Chauvin. Though likely nowhere near as physically strong.

So, I am going to have to strongly disagree with you. It is very possible for Chauvin to have had the majority of his weight pressing down on George's neck.

Yeah, I've done it a few times and no matter how hard I try, I can't avoid putting my weight on my knee, especially leaning forward and holding on to something like Chauvin is holding on to Floyd's wrist.

I noticed in the cellphone video that he does lift his knee up a few times, and each time repositions his knee and presses more firmly on Floyd's neck, as he leans in closer to the car. He does it a few times before he pulls out the mace and aims it at the few people that are pleading with him to check his pulse. By this time Floyd already appears to be unconscious and not moving.

 

[MadMcGoo]

I agree about many things. I don't think Chauvin intended to end George's life. But he was negligent.
And I feel for Lane. He tried to do the right thing, as much as he could. Torn between procedure and what a training officer was telling him.

Negligent, yes. I wanted to yell through my screen and tell him, CHECK ON HIM!

 

[ACE422]

Do we have Chauvin's body camera footage during him kneeling on Floyd's back?

That would put it to rest but um, I think we don't. Convenient
JMO.

IIRC Chauvin’s camera had fallen to the ground

So the 2019 arrest is all news to me.

Some of Floyd's 2019 arrest evidence admissible in Chauvin trial, judge rules

Very interesting IMO.

I also feel so very sad that Mr Floyd went down the path he did. He made mistakes, like we all do. He surely made bad choices, as many of us have done, and ultimately, I think he needed help.

I think he was exploited on that fateful day in May 2020, and that set up a chain of events, a perfect storm, that led tragically to his death.

I think several people bear responsibility for that chain of events.

I am also left with a painful sense that we as a society are failing the "Floyd's" of our world (IMO).

That being said, the trial is ongoing, and we have yet to see all the evidence. I hope y'all (and the jury), sleep well and not too much caffeine is needed tomorrow.

My heart goes out to anyone struggling with life in general, and especially substance abuse. I think that there needs to be more help for people.

I agree with your sentiments. Often people with addictions are trying to help dull some kind of pain, whether it’s physical or mental. You can’t just take the drugs away, punish them, then expect them to quit when you don’t address the root problem. Recovery is difficult, often very painful work. People end up with friends/family they’ve burned bridges with/are estranged from and those who are enablers or struggling with addictions of their own. We have to do a better job with programs that assist people to overcome addictions/address mental health and help create systems for long term support so people don’t feel like they are alone in their battles. If mental health and addictions resources were more accessible and affordable, it could make a tremendous difference.

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

I haven’t tried to get in Chaivin’s pose/stance yet but I think that’s very smart people are trying. One thing to keep in mind is that he’s wearing plenty of gear. A belt weighing around 20 lbs, a vest etc. Again, I haven’t even looked closely at his pose/stance to know if what I’m saying is relevant but the gear definitely something that can change your center or gravity, balance and posture

 

[MadMcGoo]

I haven’t tried to get in Chaivin’s pose/stance yet but I think that’s very smart people are trying. One thing to keep in mind is that he’s wearing plenty of gear. A belt weighing around 20 lbs, a vest etc. Again, I haven’t even looked closely at his pose/stance to know if what I’m saying is relevant but the gear definitely something that can change your center or gravity, balance and posture

Good point!

 

[missy1974]

I haven’t tried to get in Chaivin’s pose/stance yet but I think that’s very smart people are trying. One thing to keep in mind is that he’s wearing plenty of gear. A belt weighing around 20 lbs, a vest etc. Again, I haven’t even looked closely at his pose/stance to know if what I’m saying is relevant but the gear definitely something that can change your center or gravity, balance and posture

I think I may have to try this tomorrow again, but will see if my son can do it to me! He is very similar to Chauvin's weight/height/size. I will have to show him the video and let him do his own perception of it and not tell him what to look for and see what he says. I am unsure if I will be able to convince him to do this I will report back if I can!