MN - George Floyd, unarmed man killed in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

[LadyL]

IMO this is not O/T as the issue of a counterfeit bill was why the police were called and part of the entire incident leading to the death of Mr. Floyd.

I meant the general discussion about different policies/procedures.

 

[tmar]

Australian cop on the frontline of riots in the U.S. who was once forced to shoot a black woman slams officer accused of George Floyd's murder - and says it 'breaks his heart to be called a racist pig'

Australian cop on the frontline of riots in the U.S. who was once forced to shoot a black woman slams officer accused of George Floyd's murder - and says it 'breaks his heart to be called a racist pig'

Levi Parsons For Daily Mail Australia
7 hrs ago
...
'I can guarantee I've probably had more contact with the African-American community than that cop, and more encounters that required physical contact, but I've never had the need to place my knee on someone's head or neck for a long time,' he said.
...
'When I first started I loved it, I was so passionate, I thought I was one of God's angels doing his work. Now it breaks my heart. That stigma - that I'm a racist or a pig - when all I want to do is help people, is the hardest thing in the world when you know you have the right intentions,' he said.
Having a broad Australian accent in the heartland of the United States is something officer Dale said helped him build a rapport with the local community.
Although officer Dale admits there are some racist elements within American police ranks, he says protesters are 'stereotyping' all cops as racist.

'I've told my wife all the hate is probably going to force me out of a job I love. We all need to realise how, why and what we can do better for the way society and police interact. We really need calmer heads to prevail at the moment,' he said.

 

[DropthePuck]

Doesn't this sound more like accidental death while resisting arrest? Floyd resisted when the handcuffs were used and again when police tried to put him in the police car. When that happens, it's much easier for things to go wrong.

Absolutely not. This was murder, JMO. And the Hennepin County medical examiner's report released today declared it a homicide.

 

[tmar]

Ex-cop charged in George Floyd death moved twice in same day


Ex-cop charged in George Floyd death moved twice in same day

CBSNews
7 hrs ago
...
Derek Chauvin, the fired Minneapolis police officer who is now charged with murder and manslaughter in the death of George Floyd, has been moved to a second detention facility in the same day. CBS station WCCO-TV reports Chauvin had previously been held at the Ramsey County Jail after being taken into custody in Minnesota.
During a press conference Sunday night, Commissioner of Corrections Paul Schnell said that Chauvin has been moved partially due to COVID-19 concerns, especially considering the number of protesters who had already been arrested on Sunday.

Corrections facilities have been under criticism for becoming COVID-19 hotspots, as dozens of inmates at Moose Lake, Willow River, and St. Cloud facilities tested positive for the disease at the beginning of May, WCCO reported.

On Sunday afternoon, he was transferred to the Hennepin County Jail. Just hours later, he was moved to a department of corrections facility in Oak Park Heights, WCCO reported.

 

[LadyL]

from the Heavy link:

He believes “there were multiple things done wrong; that is one of them.” The bigger problem with the police actions, in his opinion, was “keeping someone in a prone position for so long.” It’s a well-known phenomenon to law enforcement that putting a person “face down handcuffed can cause positional or compression asphyxia,” he said. “I would be shocked and appalled if the officers didn’t know about the risks of positional asphyxia. It’s a standard part of police training. After you handcuff someone, you get them out of the prone position, even if you don’t have a knee in their back.” He stressed, though, that the cause of death has still not been determined by the medical examiner and other evidence, both body camera video and non-video evidence, will also be important in understanding what happened to Floyd. You can read more details from Stoughton’s interview with Heavy here.

Asked for his response after the complaint was issued, Stoughton said, “…the primary danger of the prone restraint is asphyxiation. I thought it was very interesting that the complaint uses the phrase ‘traumatic asphyxiation,’ although you’d have to consult a doctor to see whether that is a relevant distinction. I would need to review the autopsy to figure out exactly what the ME found, but the physical strain of being in the prone position, including difficulty breathing, can also put significant stress on the heart. In 2016, for example, Tony Timpa died of cardiac arrest after Dallas police put him in the same position.”

but then there's this:

According to CBS Minneapolis, in Minneapolis, “kneeling on a suspect’s neck is allowed under the department’s use-of-force policy for officers who have received training in how to compress a neck without applying direct pressure to the airway.” However, some police training experts told the station they believed the officer compressed Floyd’s neck for too long because he was under control and not fighting them.

Derek Chauvin: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

[bbm]

which is it?? they wouldn't train them to kneel on the front of a person's neck would they??

 

[Only4Justice]

HPD offers to serve as funeral security escort for the family of George Floyd, his body
HPD offers to serve as funeral security escort for the family of George Floyd, his body

this brings tears to my eyes.

 

[Gardenista]

Did we know he had fentanyl and meth in his system?

https://content.govdelivery.com/att...-3700 Floyd, George Perry Update 6.1.2020.pdf

 

[Runswithscissorz]

Trump says he is mobilizing 'heavily armed' military to stop protests

 

[GoBuckeyes]

This is why many people are upset- backing the bad. Until they clean the house of the corrupt and the power tripping over reactive, there will be a problem

I tried to click on the links to find out, but was not able to do so. What was the result of the lawsuit against the head of the union? Was he found guilty of the assertions or charges made against him? If so, what was the result, and why is he still in that position? This white power patch he allegedly wears on his motorcycle jacket, what was the outcome of that part of the investigation? I'd look at pictures of him, but I don't know what such a patch looks like. Does anyone have a link? Or links? TIA

On another note, it's unfortunate how much journalism has changed in a very short period of time. Logical fallacies are blatantly ignored. Bullet pointed headlines (click bait) seem to be the way many articles are written. MSM sure isn't what it used to be. That article needed more facts (like the outcome of the suit) and considerably less thinly veiled commentary. For example, what does his support for POTUS have to do with anything? Writing like that undermines and errodes the power of journalism. AMOO

 

[Runswithscissorz]

from the Heavy link:

He believes “there were multiple things done wrong; that is one of them.” The bigger problem with the police actions, in his opinion, was “keeping someone in a prone position for so long.” It’s a well-known phenomenon to law enforcement that putting a person “face down handcuffed can cause positional or compression asphyxia,” he said. “I would be shocked and appalled if the officers didn’t know about the risks of positional asphyxia. It’s a standard part of police training. After you handcuff someone, you get them out of the prone position, even if you don’t have a knee in their back.” He stressed, though, that the cause of death has still not been determined by the medical examiner and other evidence, both body camera video and non-video evidence, will also be important in understanding what happened to Floyd. You can read more details from Stoughton’s interview with Heavy here.

Asked for his response after the complaint was issued, Stoughton said, “…the primary danger of the prone restraint is asphyxiation. I thought it was very interesting that the complaint uses the phrase ‘traumatic asphyxiation,’ although you’d have to consult a doctor to see whether that is a relevant distinction. I would need to review the autopsy to figure out exactly what the ME found, but the physical strain of being in the prone position, including difficulty breathing, can also put significant stress on the heart. In 2016, for example, Tony Timpa died of cardiac arrest after Dallas police put him in the same position.”

but then there's this:

According to CBS Minneapolis, in Minneapolis, “kneeling on a suspect’s neck is allowed under the department’s use-of-force policy for officers who have received training in how to compress a neck without applying direct pressure to the airway.” However, some police training experts told the station they believed the officer compressed Floyd’s neck for too long because he was under control and not fighting them.

Derek Chauvin: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

[bbm]

which is it?? they wouldn't train them to kneel on the front of a person's neck would they??

It also states: (Minneapolis Code)
“It shall be the duty of every sworn employee present at any scene where physical force is being applied to either stop or attempt to stop another sworn employee when force is being inappropriately applied or is no longer required."

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The core is rotten in order for this to happen.

What's rotten is the unwritten policy and pressure for police to protect their own. If good cops were allowed to report and clean house, this problem would fix itself. MOO, there are many more good LEOs than bad.

 

[kaen]

Did we know he had fentanyl and meth in his system?

https://content.govdelivery.com/att...-3700 Floyd, George Perry Update 6.1.2020.pdf

No, the tox results were not in last week when the warrant came out. The tox screen showed recent meth use but that does not mean he was high on meth at the time.

 

[Gardenista]

No, the tox results were not in last week when the warrant came out. The tox screen showed recent meth use but that does not mean he was high on meth at the time.

Did the tox screen show fentanyl?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

"More than a dozen police officials and law enforcement experts told NBC News that the particular tactic Chauvin used — kneeling on a suspect's neck — is neither taught nor sanctioned by any police agency. A Minneapolis city official told NBC News Chauvin's tactic is not permitted by the Minneapolis police department. For most major police departments, variations of neck restraints, known as chokeholds, are highly restricted — if not banned outright
NEWSNation's police widely condemn move used to restrain George Floyd
The version of the Minneapolis Police Department's policy manual that is available on-line, however, does permit the use of neck restraints that can render suspects unconscious, and the protocol for their use appears not to have been updated for more than eight years.

Minneapolis police data shows that in the bulk of use-of-force cases involving neck restraints when an individual lost consciousness, the restraint was used after a suspect fled on foot or tensed up as they were being taken into custody. Almost half of the people who lost consciousness were injured, according to the reports, which do not spell out the severity of those injuries.

Five of the cases involved assaults on officers, while several others involved domestic abuse or domestic assault cases. In most cases, there was no apparent underlying violent offense.

Watch a minute-to-minute breakdown leading up to George Floyd's deadly arrest
The Minnesota police data showed three-fifths of those subjected to neck restraints and then rendered unconscious were black. About 30 percent were white. Two were Native Americans. Almost all are male, and three-quarters were age 40 or under.

One was a 14-year-old in a domestic abuse incident that was in progress when the officer arrived. Another was a 17-year-old fleeing from a shoplifting incident. Another involved a traffic stop where the suspect was deemed "verbally non-compliant."

The on-line version of the policy manual says, "The unconscious neck restraint shall only be applied … 1. On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or; 2. For life saving purposes, or; 3. On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective."

The passage includes a date in parentheses, April 16, 2012. The front of the manual is dated July 28, 2016. "

So let me understand - this is a recognised police tactic in Minneapolis, is that right?

So are they taught to do this?

Thank you for the information, Tresir2012. So we have a police department saying that they never teach or sanction such actions, and their own policy manual that appears to allow it under certain conditions? So, how can they allow a tactic that they don't teach? What an absolute mess!!! Has body cam video been released yet?

 

[KR72]

Thank you for the information, Tresir2012. So we have a police department saying that they never teach or sanction such actions, and their own policy manual that appears to allow it under certain conditions? So, how can they allow a tactic that they don't teach? What an absolute mess!!! Has body cam video been released yet?

I think that's because of their union president. The chief took the move out, the union president, Kroll, encouraged the members to keep using it.

 

[MsBetsy]

nope not where I live in Canada and in at least three companies that I've worked for
anyway, this is O/T

[bbm]

ETA: AliceinPain posted a U.S. link that says: Delay the passer with some excuse, if possible. so it's actually quite similar to our Canadian process

If You Suspect A Counterfeit

so the clerk or whoever instructed him/her could quite possibly have been following protocol

nope not where I live in Canada and in at least three companies that I've worked for
anyway, this is O/T

[bbm]

ETA: AliceinPain posted a U.S. link that says: Delay the passer with some excuse, if possible. so it's actually quite similar to our Canadian process

If You Suspect A Counterfeit

so the clerk or whoever instructed him/her could quite possibly have been following protocol

It's one thing to delay the customer "with some excuse" and another thing to call the police and detain the customer until they arrive, which was what I stated in my OP.

Either way, this was not what the clerk did as the suspect was already outside in his vehicle. Attempting to detain a customer in the condition he was in could have been dangerous.

We don't know if she was following store procedure, but the owner did say that if he were there he would have handled it differently. It's too bad he wasn't there.

 

[kaen]

I think that's because of their union president. The chief took the move out, the union president, Kroll, encouraged the members to keep using it.

The union president challenged that the chief had no right to prohibit AND that the union would continue to train people on their own time through union training. It is important to note that the killer had been trained in that maneuver when in the academy years ago. I think someone posted his training pages ago.

Links are all somewhere in this thread.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Did the tox screen show fentanyl?

I don't care if it did. The officers were wrong.

 

[MsBetsy]

Did we know he had fentanyl and meth in his system?

https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MNHENNE/2020/06/01/file_attachments/1464238/2020-3700 Floyd, George Perry Update 6.1.2020.pdf

Yes, the officers knew he was likely intoxicated when they arrived at the scene. As soon as he told them he couldn't breathe they should have treated it as a medical emergency. They had him in the police car and at that point could have ensured he had the proper medical care.

They had a choice to make. They chose to pull him out of the car, throw him down on the ground and put pressure on his back and neck for almost eight minutes.

In the video that was posted the other day you can hear one of the officers say to the people pleading with them, "Don't do drugs, kids."

As I said earlier, they were more interested in proving a point than in saving a human life.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I've never heard that procedure before. I'm in Canada but one would think it is similar. We were always told to call local police - by mgmt. and by the police themselves! Um, they even have fraud dep'ts at police stations.

At any rate, the teenage clerk would not have called police unless someone told her to.

The store owner has said that calling the police is their policy. So, yes, the clerk did follow store procedures.