MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

[ThePhantom]

Anyone know if the dump site near the Kramer property was ever checked out? I imagine that property is private so even if someone had access to a search dog would not be able to check it out

 

[ThePhantom]

Was just re-reading some info about Jacob's case and it mentioned they found a white sock a hundred yards from the abduction site, and a dog followed the scent to the road. Of course how did the dog know whether the sock was Jacob's -

 

[Dave K]

Was just re-reading some info about Jacob's case and it mentioned they found a white sock a hundred yards from the abduction site, and a dog followed the scent to the road. Of course how did the dog know whether the sock was Jacob's -

Do you know whether it was ever verified with the Wetterlings, whether it was, could have been, or definitely was not, Jacob's sock?
Is that info on the board here, and/or, in any case, can you provide a link?

 

[scotgirl]

Don't know if it was ever verified as his but this was from Globe Gazette timeline of abduction.
Oct. 28, 1989: About 240 Guard members, volunteers and officers scour several square miles around the abduction site while three helicopters conduct an air search. A white sweat sock is found about 100 yards from the site, but a Minneapolis bloodhound can’t track its scent farther than a nearby road.

 

[Caoutchouc]

I've sometimes wondered - IF the two cases were related (which I'm not sure of at all) - and if Jacob did not survive (I hate typing that) - if he might have been left in a quarry or small pond near where Jared was assaulted. When you look at google maps along Hwy. 23 between Cold Spring and Richmond there are a lot of old quarries (we mine a lot of granite in MN) and small swamps, ponds, mudholes, etc. where a body could have been left and never discovered.

However, I am an eternal optimist, and believe Jacob may still be alive somewhere. At least, I hope so. Patty and Jerry don't sense that he has died, and parents usually sense these things. I hope they're right.

This is VERY interesting. I hope LE follows up on this idea

 

[ThePhantom]

I was just reflecting on the search for Josh Guimond -- an extensive search was done in the surrounding area - believe National Guard was there along with large LE presence and volunteers. There was one place they didn't check out until a while later which was fhe monastery. When they finally did, I don't think dogs were allowed in - which is unfortunate as the incinerator should have been examined. Just thinking how in spite of LE's best efforts, it's still not uncommon for searches to come up short. There's just so much space to cover and I learned trained dogs are very good but also not perfect (nothing is). A little over a year ago a young man went missing not too far from where I live. Police used helicopters, dogs, etc to look for him in a local park -- no luck -- a couple weeks later the Dad asked for assistance from the community to help look for his son, so a large group myself included showed up. We divided up into smaller groups and spread out into the woods. Within three hours the teen was found not far from a path near one of the park entrances. He had hung himself and his body was in a standing position against a tree. Apparently the dogs had not been able to track him - And they were brought in the day after he was missing. There are so many cases in which someone disappears and they can't find much in the way of evidence about where person went or was taken. Random incoming observation - in the Lacy Peterson case wasn't a tracking dog able to signal her scent on a highway weeks later? I'll have to re-look at that. Back to the present, I am intrigued with a poster who identified a specific area near Cold Spring and Richmond as a possible place where Jacob could have been put. Does anyone know if that location was searched?

 

[Sasquatch321]

I was just reflecting on the search for Josh Guimond -- an extensive search was done in the surrounding area - believe National Guard was there along with large LE presence and volunteers. There was one place they didn't check out until a while later which was fhe monastery. When they finally did, I don't think dogs were allowed in - which is unfortunate as the incinerator should have been examined. Just thinking how in spite of LE's best efforts, it's still not uncommon for searches to come up short. There's just so much space to cover and I learned trained dogs are very good but also not perfect (nothing is). A little over a year ago a young man went missing not too far from where I live. Police used helicopters, dogs, etc to look for him in a local park -- no luck -- a couple weeks later the Dad asked for assistance from the community to help look for his son, so a large group myself included showed up. We divided up into smaller groups and spread out into the woods. Within three hours the teen was found not far from a path near one of the park entrances. He had hung himself and his body was in a standing position against a tree. Apparently the dogs had not been able to track him - And they were brought in the day after he was missing. There are so many cases in which someone disappears and they can't find much in the way of evidence about where person went or was taken. Random incoming observation - in the Lacy Peterson case wasn't a tracking dog able to signal her scent on a highway weeks later? I'll have to re-look at that. Back to the present, I am intrigued with a poster who identified a specific area near Cold Spring and Richmond as a possible place where Jacob could have been put. Does anyone know if that location was searched?

What are the facts supporting this idea that Jacob was dumped into a mudhole or a quarry? Do we suddenly have unexplained tire tracks on the R's driveway?

 

[Dave K]

Don't know if it was ever verified as his but this was from Globe Gazette timeline of abduction.
Oct. 28, 1989: About 240 Guard members, volunteers and officers scour several square miles around the abduction site while three helicopters conduct an air search. A white sweat sock is found about 100 yards from the site, but a Minneapolis bloodhound can’t track its scent farther than a nearby road.

Thanks,

You would think that it would be safe to presume that the sock had been thoroughly followed up on, and that basically nothing came of it. Meaning that it was found to not be Jacob's sock. I mean, you would think, (at least I would think) that if it had been found to be Jacob's sock; that, that would have been reported. But, between what we know of the investigation, or, at least what's been reported about the investigation and what LE has released for publication; I don't know whether we can presume that or not. In other words, whether it was followed up on and found to not be Jacob's sock; or, even if it Was found to be Jacob's; I guess we can't necessarily expect that LE would have made that information public.

Actually, the fact that the first part of that story Was reported, 'they found a sock' and then no follow-up was reported, is aggravating.

This case is really aggravating, trying to follow, with such little information and not knowing how much other information is in existence, but, not available.

Editing to add: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wetterling_jacob.html

That link, can't copy/paste text; reports that Jacob was wearing white socks. Not finding too much else, or anything that gives any info on follow-up on the sock or anything.

Also, this was discussed several yrs ago, 2009 on the board here; http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Wetterling-11-St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-2/page15

 

[HEY YOU!]

I don't have much of a theory about who took him or why. I'm still stuck on the prints and the tracks in the driveway. This makes me believe that he was taken by vehicle. If he was taken by vehicle, he could be anywhere.

I agree that the tracks and footprints in the driveway are compelling evidence. That always brings me back to 2 things:

1- One, law enforcement stated that there was 1 unknown set of tire tracks in the DR driveway until Kevin came forward. Then all other tire tracks were accounted for.

2- Dan made a couple of statements with regards to those tire tracks in his driveway. He stated that a goldish sedan came tearing up the driveway during that very afternoon and if we find that car, we will have our abductor. He also stated that around the time of abduction there was a small blue car with close together headlights and a small child or woman covering their eyes in the passenger seat that drove up and around his driveway. Along with Kevin's tire tracks that would have been 3 sets of unknown tire tracks in the DR driveway. Law enforcement was able to identify all tracks but Kevin's until he came forward.

You are spot on in that these tire tracks and footprints are extremely important in solving this case. The fact that DR made a statement regarding 2 other cars that he saw that very same day and yet cops did not say there were other unidentified tire tracks is one reason I keep going back to DR as the perp.

 

[kemo]

I do not believe that anyone from LE has made the blanket claim that ALL tire tracks in DR's driveway are accounted for. Some posters have continued to make this claim. Others have suggested that this must be the case; otherwise why would some members of LE be so certain of DR's guilt? Can anyone cite a reference?

This forum isn't going anywhere if posters are operating with different FACTS. I agree that if all tire tracks (except those that are assumed to belong to Kevin) are accounted for to the extent that LE can be reasonably certain NO OTHER CAR Entered the driveway that day, I would rethink my position.

If LE has the evidence to back up this claim, it raises the question of why this has never been disclosed. Certainly, evidence is often held back for various reasons but there are practical reasons for some evidence to be disclosed. There is general pattern of releasing more and more evidence over time. This cases is 25 years old and there is no way anyone is going to destroy or otherwise tamper with tire track evidence at this point.

If there is any any evidence in the case file that actually points in a particular direction; at a suspect who is still living in the community, it is time that this information is made known. It may jar memories or cause people with information to come forward. If no such evidence is forthcoming however, we all need to seriously consider the possibility that it does no exist.

 

[Wisdom]

I do not believe that anyone from LE has made the blanket claim that ALL tire tracks in DR's driveway are accounted for. Some posters have continued to make this claim. Others have suggested that this must be the case; otherwise why would some members of LE be so certain of DR's guilt? Can anyone cite a reference?

This forum isn't going anywhere if posters are operating with different FACTS. I agree that if all tire tracks (except those that are assumed to belong to Kevin) are accounted for to the extent that LE can be reasonably certain NO OTHER CAR Entered the driveway that day, I would rethink my position.

If LE has the evidence to back up this claim, it raises the question of why this has never been disclosed. Certainly, evidence is often held back for various reasons but there are practical reasons for some evidence to be disclosed. There is general pattern of releasing more and more evidence over time. This cases is 25 years old and there is no way anyone is going to destroy or otherwise tamper with tire track evidence at this point.

If there is any any evidence in the case file that actually points in a particular direction; at a suspect who is still living in the community, it is time that this information is made known. It may jar memories or cause people with information to come forward. If no such evidence is forthcoming however, we all need to seriously consider the possibility that it does no exist.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines with LE as they will never make a "blanket claim" that you mentioned. Read the following info copied from the link below which is just one of several sites of information that state basically the same thing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rassier was not questioned until the morning after the abduction when he was pulled out of his class by detectives who searched his car and questioned him for 45 minutes. He said he did not feel as if investigators were looking at him.
Six days after the kidnapping, law enforcement searched the farm.
“They wanted me to do this lie detector test and I said sure.” Rassier said.
He took the lie detector test, but said he has never been told the results.
Rassier also agreed to be hypnotized. For the next month, he answered law enforcement questions under hypnosis.
For the next 14 years, investigators did not focus on Rassier. Instead, their priority was to find a car that had left a tire track on the Rassier’s driveway.
In 2004, investigators got their big break. A man came forward and said he had driven down the driveway that night. Investigators quickly ruled him out and the investigation took a dramatic turn: Investigators concluded Jacob’s kidnapper had been on foot.
Rassier was again called in for questioning. A BCA agent asked him to confess.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/05/14/for-1st-time-person-of-interest-goes-through-day-of-wetterling-abduction/

 

[bucshunter]

Is there evidence that the tire tracks are all accounted for or did law enforcement say this to put heat on dr?

So he's been hypnotized and taken a polygraph? Why would he volunteer to do that?

 

[Dave K]

I do not believe that anyone from LE has made the blanket claim that ALL tire tracks in DR's driveway are accounted for. Some posters have continued to make this claim. Others have suggested that this must be the case; otherwise why would some members of LE be so certain of DR's guilt? Can anyone cite a reference?

This forum isn't going anywhere if posters are operating with different FACTS. I agree that if all tire tracks (except those that are assumed to belong to Kevin) are accounted for to the extent that LE can be reasonably certain NO OTHER CAR Entered the driveway that day, I would rethink my position.

If LE has the evidence to back up this claim, it raises the question of why this has never been disclosed. Certainly, evidence is often held back for various reasons but there are practical reasons for some evidence to be disclosed. There is general pattern of releasing more and more evidence over time. This cases is 25 years old and there is no way anyone is going to destroy or otherwise tamper with tire track evidence at this point.

If there is any any evidence in the case file that actually points in a particular direction; at a suspect who is still living in the community, it is time that this information is made known. It may jar memories or cause people with information to come forward. If no such evidence is forthcoming however, we all need to seriously consider the possibility that it does no exist.

RBBM

I strongly agree with your first paragraph. Along with the rest of the post. I just want to emphasize the first paragraph and question.

That's a question that I've been wanting to ask for a while now. I also have noticed quite a few statements to the effect that LE has ruled out all other tire tracks; but, I haven't seen any reference that supports that. Personally, I don't think there's any reason to think that it's a correct statement or presumption.

 

[nmogren]

Let's suppose regarding the tire tracks...LE was on the scene, looking at Jacobs footprints seeming to go directly to a fresh tire track. They take casts of Jacobs prints, the fresh tire track and the perps footprints. Tada! They have solved the case as soon as they can find the owner of the tire track, the freshest one on the driveway.

Years later Kevin comes forward and is ruled out as the perp. His were the freshest tire tracks on the driveway.

Did LE even look at the other prints on the driveway? Did they look at the SECOND freshest prints on the driveway? The ones that probably belong to Jacobs kidnapper? No, they said he must have been on foot. Why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sasquatch321]

Let's suppose regarding the tire tracks...LE was on the scene, looking at Jacobs footprints seeming to go directly to a fresh tire track. They take casts of Jacobs prints, the fresh tire track and the perps footprints. Tada! They have solved the case as soon as they can find the owner of the tire track, the freshest one on the driveway.

Years later Kevin comes forward and is ruled out as the perp. His were the freshest tire tracks on the driveway.

Did LE even look at the other prints on the driveway? Did they look at the SECOND freshest prints on the driveway? The ones that probably belong to Jacobs kidnapper? No, they said he must have been on foot. Why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If DR told investigators about the three cars the next day, why would they only pay attention to one? Did investigators even hear about the three cars the next day?

 

[bucshunter]

One thing we can agree on is dr hasn't lawyered up and refused to speak to LE.

 

[nmogren]

I think LE was focused on the freshest tire tracks that night and only those. The next day the driveway scene was already being trampled all over so it's already too late to look for the other fresh tracks. They only looked at the tracks that were near Jacobs last print.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sasquatch321]

I think LE was focused on the freshest tire tracks that night and only those. The next day the driveway scene was already being trampled all over so it's already too late to look for the other fresh tracks. They only looked at the tracks that were near Jacobs last print.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wrong, DR poked fun at LE because the tire tracks had been there all week.

 

[bucshunter]

I think LE was focused on the freshest tire tracks that night and only those. The next day the driveway scene was already being trampled all over so it's already too late to look for the other fresh tracks. They only looked at the tracks that were near Jacobs last print.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good point here who knows what tracks they may have overlooked.

 

[bucshunter]

One thing we can agree on is dr hasn't lawyered up and refused to speak to LE.

In fact he is still talking to people... maybe he is really dumb or super arrogant. If he's the one he should have kept his mouth zipped.