MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #15

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  • #881
We have no idea if a student came forward or not. There are statute of limitations on things. We have no idea if a student lives in a foreign country and has no clue about Jacob or if a student died.

It is illegal to get the SS number of people unless you are authorized to do so.

I have looked up the R family . I think the fact that they had so many children at a young age as well as a death of a child may have contributed to stress in the family. Made them vulnerable.

Here is an example of Barway C who was recently killed by his father, but no one knew it. There were vigils and fundraisers for this child. But all along LE knew who did it. Here is what they released at the beginning.


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Quote Originally Posted by Damarna View Post
http://www.kare11.com/story/news/loc...-boy/25015317/

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From your link, statement from detectives:

"We do not have information that would lead us to believe this is a stranger abduction. We do have information that leads us to believe he is with someone he may know," Revering said.


Of course it's illegal to obtain the SS# for criminal purposes. What I'm saying is that when I got the divorce records, and the file card related to a conviction on said pedophile, they did a poor job erasing/redacting that information. I don't think they much cared about this particular pedophile, or those who covered up his crimes. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but it is what it is. I don't think anyone out there wants to claim the identity of a convicted pedophile anytime soon.

When you looked up the R family, did you see their ages?

Regarding the SOLs: This has no bearing if LE seeks out witnesses or possible past victims of sexual abuse for other purposes in an investigation. They're not looking for victims who can necessarily prosecute/file a civil suit, in which SOLs would be relevant; they're looking for victims to come forward as potential witnesses to incriminate DR as a pedophile, further proving their motives to TOSS his home/parents home, for this "sexually" motivated crime.

DMs parents were afraid, and they were treated roughly by LE, and this is why they were a wreck.
In addition, they're believing in their son's innocence, and that would only further their emotional pain.

Regarding their reasoning for waiting for "better technology" in the "DNA evidence": IMO, this is just a stall tactic. We are about as advanced as we can get in today's forensics!
 
  • #882
The murder of BC was a slam dunk. JW is not. Not a comparison at all.

Not making any comparisons except for what LE reveals. That is my point.

Interesting, no?

We are assuming on here that LE knows zip about Jacob. I am just showing how LE knows plenty but does not reveal it the public.
 
  • #883
Of course it's illegal to obtain the SS# for criminal purposes. What I'm saying is that when I got the divorce records, and the file card related to a conviction on said pedophile, they did a poor job erasing/redacting that information. I don't think they much cared about this particular pedophile, or those who covered up his crimes. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but it is what it is. I don't think anyone out there wants to claim the identity of a convicted pedophile anytime soon.

When you looked up the R family, did you see their ages?

Regarding the SOLs: This has no bearing if LE seeks out witnesses or possible past victims of sexual abuse for other purposes in an investigation. They're not looking for victims who can necessarily prosecute/file a civil suit, in which SOLs would be relevant; they're looking for victims to come forward as potential witnesses to incriminate DR as a pedophile, further proving their motives to TOSS his home/parents home, for this "sexually" motivated crime.

DMs parents were afraid, and they were treated roughly by LE, and this is why they were a wreck.
In addition, they're believing in their son's innocence, and that would only further their emotional pain.

Regarding their reasoning for waiting for "better technology" in the "DNA evidence": IMO, this is just a stall tactic. We are about as advanced as we can get in today's forensics!

Hm. Look up the laws with SS numbers.

We know nothing of how the parents were treated. Those are DR's words. Why did Sher's friends merely give rhe Sheriff a key to their house because LE came so often? What is the difference?

With my example of Barway, it shows to me that LE knows plenty that we do not know. We have zero idea if anyone came forward re issues with DR. Zero.

I posted earlier that there was a witness that saw Barway get into the car with his father.

But the public did not know this. Tearful vigils and fundraisers were held, but obvioulsy the witness did not come out and tell people to stop because Barway left with his father.

There are plenty of other cases on here that show what LE knew and the public had no clue. Like with Heather Graham and Alanna Gallagher and on and on and on.

Witnesses were quiet about what they knew in those cases. Interesting.
 
  • #884
The laws are obvious on SS numbers. I'm just telling you that the two woman in archived records didn't do a very good job redacting the records. I'm not disputing the SS# laws. I know all about them. ;)

Regarding the other stuff in your post....no comment, I'd just be repeating myself, again. BUT, good point on LE having information that we do not know about. This is what makes it so difficult to know whether or not they're doing their jobs.
 
  • #885
Can you share DM's new info?

No I cannot. I've already said enough on that subject.
If the information does get looked into by LE, I have no way of knowing if it would compromise the investigation.
 
  • #886
Let us know when you can!
 
  • #887
They did receive tips about Hart from the public, but I don't think it was so much from the sketch as it was from his behavior and reputation. In fact, the FBI was quoted as saying that Hart did not resemble the sketch.

The FBI drawdown in November, before Thanksgiving. The substantial withdrawal of the FBI was announced at the end of December, a full three weeks prior to Hart`s arrest.

That initial withdrawal was reversed once Jared's case was seen as a strong connection, a top sketch artist was flown in from Washington, D.C. to develop a better sketch to be shown to the public, and additional agents were assigned to pursue the leads generated from that sketch.

And what about this recognition of the sketch with tip to the F.B.I. that I found in your very informative book?

[bold emphasis is mine]

Terry Bailey*(alias) was walking along a street in downtown Virginia, Minnesota one afternoon in January 1990, when he noticed a poster hanging on a store window. Bailey recognized the man in the poster immediately, and asked himself, “Why is there a poster of Duane Hart hanging in the window?”

Bailey recognized the eyes in the hand-sketched poster, and there was no doubt in his mind that Hart was the man depicted . Bailey’s recalled a time more than twenty-five years earlier, in 1963, when he was a teenager living in Paynesville, Minnesota. He was at the skating rink when two eleven or twelve-year-old boys asked him for his help. An older boy tried to coerce them into going off with him to perform sexual favors.

Bailey approached the older boy, whom he later learned was Duane Hart, and asked him to leave the younger boys alone. Bailey and Hart went outside to discuss the problem in the alley behind the rink. According to Bailey, Hart then grabbed Bailey’s jacket, pulled it up over his head, wrapped it tightly and started beating on Bailey. Stunned, Bailey fell to the ground, and then Hart pounced on top of Bailey. Bailey was a strong and well-coached wrestler, and once the two boys were on the ground, he quickly gained the upper hand. He removed his boot and struck Hart several times on the forehead with the metal horseshoe cleat on the bottom of the boot. Bailey hit Hart hard enough to draw blood, so the injury probably left a scar on Hart’s forehead. More importantly, Bailey was able to get away from Hart and run home.

Bailey said that a short time later he told a Paynesville police officer about his encounter with Hart. He said the police officer told him that Hart was a bad person, and he should stay away from him. Twenty-five years later, Bailey found himself staring at the store window. He wondered why Hart’s face was shown on the poster, in 1990, so he approached the window for a closer look. That was when Bailey learned of Jacob Wetterling’s abduction, and he immediately called the FBI and told them his story.


The announcement by the F.B.I. to withdraw, and the actual withdrawal from the JW investigation, completed at the end of January 1990 - coincides 100% with having identified Hart. Notice that from that time onward, no further serious efforts by LE to identify the person shown in the sketch. The F.B.I. publicly announced that Hart's arrest at that time was for crimes not related, but that does not mean that the F.B.I. investigators felt that Hart had nothing to do with the abduction of JW. Quite to the contrary, but when solving a case would reap embarrassment and public scorn upon local LE, then it just doesn't get solved - at least not publicly.
 
  • #888
That initial withdrawal was reversed once Jared's case was seen as a strong connection, a top sketch artist was flown in from Washington, D.C. to develop a better sketch to be shown to the public, and additional agents were assigned to pursue the leads generated from that sketch.

And what about this recognition of the sketch with tip to the F.B.I. that I found in your very informative book?

[bold emphasis is mine]

Terry Bailey*(alias) was walking along a street in downtown Virginia, Minnesota one afternoon in January 1990, when he noticed a poster hanging on a store window. Bailey recognized the man in the poster immediately, and asked himself, “Why is there a poster of Duane Hart hanging in the window?”

Bailey recognized the eyes in the hand-sketched poster, and there was no doubt in his mind that Hart was the man depicted . Bailey’s recalled a time more than twenty-five years earlier, in 1963, when he was a teenager living in Paynesville, Minnesota. He was at the skating rink when two eleven or twelve-year-old boys asked him for his help. An older boy tried to coerce them into going off with him to perform sexual favors.

Bailey approached the older boy, whom he later learned was Duane Hart, and asked him to leave the younger boys alone. Bailey and Hart went outside to discuss the problem in the alley behind the rink. According to Bailey, Hart then grabbed Bailey’s jacket, pulled it up over his head, wrapped it tightly and started beating on Bailey. Stunned, Bailey fell to the ground, and then Hart pounced on top of Bailey. Bailey was a strong and well-coached wrestler, and once the two boys were on the ground, he quickly gained the upper hand. He removed his boot and struck Hart several times on the forehead with the metal horseshoe cleat on the bottom of the boot. Bailey hit Hart hard enough to draw blood, so the injury probably left a scar on Hart’s forehead. More importantly, Bailey was able to get away from Hart and run home.

Bailey said that a short time later he told a Paynesville police officer about his encounter with Hart. He said the police officer told him that Hart was a bad person, and he should stay away from him. Twenty-five years later, Bailey found himself staring at the store window. He wondered why Hart’s face was shown on the poster, in 1990, so he approached the window for a closer look. That was when Bailey learned of Jacob Wetterling’s abduction, and he immediately called the FBI and told them his story.

The announcement by the F.B.I. to withdraw, and the actual withdrawal from the JW investigation, completed at the end of January 1990 - coincides 100% with having identified Hart. Notice that from that time onward, no further serious efforts by LE to identify the person shown in the sketch. The F.B.I. publicly announced that Hart's arrest at that time was for crimes not related, but that does not mean that the F.B.I. investigators felt that Hart had nothing to do with the abduction of JW. Quite to the contrary, but when solving a case would reap embarrassment and public scorn upon local LE, then it just doesn't get solved - at least not publicly.


Nice oldie, thank you for sharing, but then Kevin came forward 13 years later. He stole harts thunder, with only a miniscule chance remaining.
 
  • #889
Nice oldie, thank you for sharing, but then Kevin came forward 13 years later. He stole harts thunder, with only a miniscule chance remaining.
Why is DR the named POI?
 
  • #890
That initial withdrawal was reversed once Jared's case was seen as a strong connection, a top sketch artist was flown in from Washington, D.C. to develop a better sketch to be shown to the public, and additional agents were assigned to pursue the leads generated from that sketch.

And what about this recognition of the sketch with tip to the F.B.I. that I found in your very informative book?

[bold emphasis is mine]

Terry Bailey*(alias) was walking along a street in downtown Virginia, Minnesota one afternoon in January 1990, when he noticed a poster hanging on a store window. Bailey recognized the man in the poster immediately, and asked himself, “Why is there a poster of Duane Hart hanging in the window?”

Bailey recognized the eyes in the hand-sketched poster, and there was no doubt in his mind that Hart was the man depicted . Bailey’s recalled a time more than twenty-five years earlier, in 1963, when he was a teenager living in Paynesville, Minnesota. He was at the skating rink when two eleven or twelve-year-old boys asked him for his help. An older boy tried to coerce them into going off with him to perform sexual favors.

Bailey approached the older boy, whom he later learned was Duane Hart, and asked him to leave the younger boys alone. Bailey and Hart went outside to discuss the problem in the alley behind the rink. According to Bailey, Hart then grabbed Bailey’s jacket, pulled it up over his head, wrapped it tightly and started beating on Bailey. Stunned, Bailey fell to the ground, and then Hart pounced on top of Bailey. Bailey was a strong and well-coached wrestler, and once the two boys were on the ground, he quickly gained the upper hand. He removed his boot and struck Hart several times on the forehead with the metal horseshoe cleat on the bottom of the boot. Bailey hit Hart hard enough to draw blood, so the injury probably left a scar on Hart’s forehead. More importantly, Bailey was able to get away from Hart and run home.

Bailey said that a short time later he told a Paynesville police officer about his encounter with Hart. He said the police officer told him that Hart was a bad person, and he should stay away from him. Twenty-five years later, Bailey found himself staring at the store window. He wondered why Hart’s face was shown on the poster, in 1990, so he approached the window for a closer look. That was when Bailey learned of Jacob Wetterling’s abduction, and he immediately called the FBI and told them his story.

The announcement by the F.B.I. to withdraw, and the actual withdrawal from the JW investigation, completed at the end of January 1990 - coincides 100% with having identified Hart. Notice that from that time onward, no further serious efforts by LE to identify the person shown in the sketch. The F.B.I. publicly announced that Hart's arrest at that time was for crimes not related, but that does not mean that the F.B.I. investigators felt that Hart had nothing to do with the abduction of JW. Quite to the contrary, but when solving a case would reap embarrassment and public scorn upon local LE, then it just doesn't get solved - at least not publicly.

The initial FBI reduction was just before Thanksgiving, the BCA removed 6 agents and the FBI removed 5, bringing their remaining total to 15. LE stated a likely connection between Jacob's and Jared's case within a few days of Jacob's abduction. They reiterated that position, and pretty strongly, a few more times by the middle of December (they never wavered publicly from a connection to Jared until 2004). It was December 31, 1989 when the newspapers carried the news about the FBI's plans to substantially withdraw from the case within .

Your original post said that LE received numerous tips about Hart resembling the sketch: "The F.B.I. received numerous tips that indicated DAH was the man depicted in that sketch." Yes, Terry Bailey did say he was sure the sketch was Hart, but keep in mind that by 1990, Bailey hadn't seen Hart in 25 years. If there is a document suggesting that numerous people reported Hart as resembling the sketch, please share with us.

I would agree with you that if Hart was indeed Jacob's and Jared's perpetrator, that this would be an embarrassment for local LE.

A quote from the book, below:

Hart was also a serious suspect in Jared’s kidnapping and assault near Cold Spring. The Wetterling task force asked Jared to view several lineups, some of which included Hart, but Jared was not able to identify Hart as his perpetrator. According to investigative notes, Hart matched the physical description of the perpetrator in his case. He was 5’ 7” tall, had dark hair, and weighed about 170 pounds at the time of his arrest. His shoe size was 9EEE – an unusual size, and one that would be likely to leave uniquely identifiable footprints on a driveway of sand and gravel.

The FBI withdrew all but two agents from the Wetterling case on January 30, 1990. The withdrawal coincided with the dwindling supply of leads in the case and the lack of progress in connecting Hart to Jacob’s abduction. Hart has never been charged in Jacob’s case, Jared’s case, or the Paynesville assaults of 1986 and 1987.
 
  • #891
  • #892
I'm in the middle of reading "Tears of Rage" by John Walsh. Very good book and a lot of information about Adam Walsh's case that I was not aware of.

Walsh is very frank about discussing what he considers to have been terrible detective work by the Hollywood, FL police department. Also, the FBI refused to take on the case. Walsh had to fight tooth and nail to get federal legislation passed to force the FBI to get involved in cases of abducted children. That was in 1981. When Jacob was taken in 1989 the FBI were involved immediately and in full force.

It's just interesting seeing the changes that evolved during the 80's.
 
  • #893
I'm in the middle of reading "Tears of Rage" by John Walsh. Very good book and a lot of information about Adam Walsh's case that I was not aware of.

Walsh is very frank about discussing what he considers to have been terrible detective work by the Hollywood, FL police department. Also, the FBI refused to take on the case. Walsh had to fight tooth and nail to get federal legislation passed to force the FBI to get involved in cases of abducted children. That was in 1981. When Jacob was taken in 1989 the FBI were involved immediately and in full force.

It's just interesting seeing the changes that evolved during the 80's.

So do you believe the FBI was on the scene pouring casts of tracks at midnight as Kevin stated? I think that's quite a stretch and there are more things that don't quite jive with facts known.
 
  • #894
So do you believe the FBI was on the scene pouring casts of tracks at midnight as Kevin stated? I think that's quite a stretch and there are more things that don't quite jive with facts known.

I don't know about the timing of casts being made. I believe only the one local FBI agent was on the scene that night.
 
  • #895
Suspects in cars & Huberts Comparison.jpg
 
  • #896
Here's a better photo explaining how the poles were in 1989.
Red arrow: First pole in '89 - No longer there
Yellow arrow: Second pole - Prints stop here
Green arrow: Third pole - Prints never made it this far

View attachment 73534

see Thread #5,7-14-2013, 11:59 pm, posts #16 thru #18
 
  • #897
Amazing when DAH was locked up all the abductions and attacks seemed to stop.
 
  • #898
see Thread #5,7-14-2013, 11:59 pm, posts #16 thru #18

Some still seem to be confused about this. Just making the facts clear.
 
  • #899
Yup. Thx. Me2
 
  • #900
I still don't think DAH looks anything like the sketch. But Hollinger sure does. I wish I could post a comparison pic.
 
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