MN - Justine Damond, 40, fatally shot by Minneapolis LE, 15 July 2017 #3

[MassGuy]

This case caught my attention when it happened, because it was so unlike anything I’d ever seen before.

Usually in a police shooting, the officers are engaging with a suspect, or responding to a report of “a man with a gun.”

They have reason to be on edge, whether a weapon is found or not.

A lot of times the suspect acts in a provocative manner.

This wasn’t like that, not by a long shot.

The woman who called police for help, ended up being shot for no reason.

She didn’t act provocatively, and officers weren’t looking for someone who matched her description.

This was as bizarre as it was egregious.

 

[ilovewings]

Years ago someone broke into my house and fled out a window when I came across him. I called the police and when an officer arrived, I opened the door when he pulled into the driveway to go speak with him. My 120 lb German Shepherd got out and went straight for the cop since he was a stranger on my property and he did not like strangers on the property. I froze to the point I couldn't even call the dog back as I was picturing in my mind the cop drawing his gun and shooting my dog. It all happened so fast!! Luckily, the cop didn't even draw his gun. He slowly extended his hand and told the dog he was a good boy when the dog got to him, and he let the dog sniff his hand. Whew! I unfroze myself and called the dog back. These are the kind of people who should be cops. Not people who startle and panic easily, so they pull their guns and start shooting because they can.

I would like to think there are more police officers like the one who had control over himself and did not shoot your dog, and i think that probably is the case, but then there are a few Officer Noors out there too: thank goodness on that night you had the good fortune that the officer did not panic and start shooting.

 

[Rocco]

Actually they ALL had prior interaction.

Yes, they did. CLEARLY.

Who knew that 'prior interaction' was such a difficult phrase to understand. I'd try to think of a shorter, less complicated phrase to use, but I think it would be a waste of time.

 

[Rocco]

I would like to think there are more police officers like the one who had control over himself and did not shoot your dog, and i think that probably is the case, but then there are a few Officer Noors out there too: thank goodness on that night you had the good fortune that the officer did not panic and start shooting.

I considered myself really really lucky. We've all heard of instances of dogs who have been shot by cops in similar circumstances. I made it a point to call the PD and let them know how grateful I was that this particular cop responded to my call.

 

[ilovechili]

Years ago someone broke into my house and fled out a window when I came across him. I called the police and when an officer arrived, I opened the door when he pulled into the driveway to go speak with him. My 120 lb German Shepherd got out and went straight for the cop since he was a stranger on my property and he did not like strangers on the property. I froze to the point I couldn't even call the dog back as I was picturing in my mind the cop drawing his gun and shooting my dog. It all happened so fast!! Luckily, the cop didn't even draw his gun. He slowly extended his hand and told the dog he was a good boy when the dog got to him, and he let the dog sniff his hand. Whew! I unfroze myself and called the dog back. These are the kind of people who should be cops. Not people who startle and panic easily, so they pull their guns and start shooting because they can.

Exactly, this makes the point perfectly. The cop did not react in fear over your dog. The man in this case was not cop material. If you jump at anything and shoot no less it is the wrong job for you. Additionally it was a woman in pajamas in a residential neighborhood not a 4:00 a.m. bar shooting of multiple people in Illinois as has been compared. This case is sad all of the way around but I feel justice was done. He did not belong in the job (not because of race but because of what it takes and he did not have it). He should have recognized that or those who worked with him and employed him should have. imo anyhow.

The jury also did not find him guilty of second degree murder so they looked at the facts imo.

This is all jmo and apparently it was the opinion of a panel of 12 jurors as well.

 

[jjenny]

I agree. Harrity's testimony was devastating to Noor. Noor claimed that they were afraid, anticipating ambush, saw terror in Harrity's eyes. But Harrity, while acknowleging there was concern of ambush, didn't back that up. Despite less experience, Harrity maintained control. If the two were as scared as Noor claimed, they should not have proceeded up the alley, but waited for backup or proceeded to contact the 911 caller for more information. Harrity wasn't panicked. But for some reason Noor was and literally just shot the first thing he saw move.

Noor was clearly unfit to be a cop and the outcome is tragic.

 

[PrairieWind]

I will say this. There was another police shooting in New Haven, Connecticut last week that I think warrants charges.

Angry protests follow police shooting of unarmed woman

I seen no reason for these officers to have opened fire. Especially firing into the passenger side.

 

[they'll get you]

Noor maintained he had fired the deadly shot to protect his partner's life, after a "loud bang" on his squad car made him fearful.
........several reasons observers in the US had been watching just as closely as they had in Australia.

"First is just the number of times it's happened across the country," he said.
Second thing is the unique twist here - that we have ... a black police officer shooting a white victim, and usually it's the opposite argument."

Laws in Minnesota also offer police officers extra protection not available to the average American.

"There's never been a police officer convicted in Minnesota of a police shooting incident, and that's another reason this is out there," Mr Halberg said.
That's the statute in place here in Minnesota and other states that basically cays police officers can kill somebody.

"It's memorialised in the law if they perceive a concern for themselves or their partner."
Why conviction over Justine Ruszczyk shooting was a US landmark

 

[Rocco]

Juror speaks about verdict:

Juror reflects on Noor verdict



"Kapelsohn always felt a little off. Trying to show photos off his cell phone in the middle of testimony was probably the most embarrassing moment of the trial. Doing crime scene recreations without showing measurements, and the whole lifting the fingers and going “bang,” doing the demonstration of Noor’s weapon and Harrity’s holster was just weird. Plus, his testimony in the other case where he was arguing against almost an identical set of facts did hurt his credibility a little bit."

He was trying to show photos off his cell phone in the middle of testimony?

Say it ain't so!!

 

[MyBelle]

What other case has an officer shot someone before they had any interaction with them? I don't know of any.

There have been several cases of officers ambushed in their patrol cars and having no interaction with their killers beforehand. One high profile case happened in NYC just a week or so before Justine's death. I think all police officers in major cities were on edge because the NYC killing was a totally unprovoked ambush through the patrol car window while she was seated.

New York police officer is shot and killed in Bronx ambush

JMO

 

[Rocco]

There have been several cases of officers ambushed in their patrol cars and having no interaction with their killers beforehand. One high profile case happened in NYC just a week or so before Justine's death. I think all police officers in major cities were on edge because the NYC killing was a totally unprovoked ambush through the patrol car window while she was seated.

New York police officer is shot and killed in Bronx ambush

JMO

Yes, I remember the NYC incident. Terrible. However my question was 'What other case has an officer shot someone before they had any interaction with them?'

'Officer shot someone'

 

[they'll get you]

In Australia a female cop had a gun held her head and managed to shoot the offender in the thigh and scrotum. (That’s my girl!)

She never shot to kill.

A Queensland police officer who shot a man now on trial for her attempted murder says she thought she was going to die during their violent encounter.
One bullet pierced his thigh and scrotum, the other went through his foot.
'I thought I was going to die' police officer shot on Gold Coast tells court

 

[Rocco]

In Australia a female cop had a gun held her head and managed to shoot the offender in the thigh and scrotum. (That’s my girl!)

She never shot to kill.

A Queensland police officer who shot a man now on trial for her attempted murder says she thought she was going to die during their violent encounter.
One bullet pierced his thigh and scrotum, the other went through his foot.
'I thought I was going to die' police officer shot on Gold Coast tells court

Where does it say she never shot to kill?

 

[PrairieWind]

Juror speaks about verdict:

Juror reflects on Noor verdict



"Kapelsohn always felt a little off. Trying to show photos off his cell phone in the middle of testimony was probably the most embarrassing moment of the trial. Doing crime scene recreations without showing measurements, and the whole lifting the fingers and going “bang,” doing the demonstration of Noor’s weapon and Harrity’s holster was just weird. Plus, his testimony in the other case where he was arguing against almost an identical set of facts did hurt his credibility a little bit."

He was trying to show photos off his cell phone in the middle of testimony?

Say it ain't so!!

Sounds like the jury did a good job. I like how even though they voted unanimous on the third degree murder charge they thought they should keep discussing it. Not rushing into anything.

 

[MyBelle]

Shooting someone when there is no reason to? Yes that happens ALOT and the cops usually dont get punished. Well seems in only very specific cases apparently. Easily google-able.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

https://www.theroot.com/former-minneapolis-cop-found-guilty-of-murder-in-death-1834432731
Perhaps unlike former officer Noor, the officer in the Castile case —or officers in the numerous fatal shootings of young black people across this nation —just wasn’t “other” enough as the first Somali American cop in the city of Minneapolis likely was viewed.

So, in this case, there is perhaps “justice” for one family who wrongly lost a loved one to a police officer’s bullet.

Where is the justice for the rest?

What about these invalidates them. I think I know your reason, but id like to hear your explanation on why these are not similar

Jemel was shot and killed by a cop pulling up to the scene.
Jonathan was shot as he approached a cop car after a car crash
John was shot for shopping in a walmart

Jemel Roberson
Shooting of Jemel Roberson - Wikipedia
On November 11, 2018, Jemel Roberson, a 26-year-old African-American security guard for Manny's Blue Room Bar in Robbins, Illinois was fatally shot by Ian Covey, a police officer responding to a call of shots fired at the bar. Robinson was working for the bar and was legally armed as a security guard when four people were non-fatally shot by a gunman. After Roberson subdued and pinned the shooter to the ground, he was shot by a Midlothian police officer arriving at the scene.
COP - No charges

Shooting of Jonathan Ferrell - Wikipedia
On September 14, 2013, Jonathan Ferrell, a 24-year-old former college football player for the Florida A&M University Rattlers, was shot and killed by police officer Randall "Wes" Kerrick Ferrell was unarmed at the time he was shot. He crashed his car, went to a house in the Bradfield Farms neighborhood and "banged on the door", The resident Sarah McCartney called the police, and three officers came.Ferrell then ran towards them, whereupon one of the officers fired a taser at Ferrell and missed. Kerrick then opened fire on Ferrell, shooting him twelve times and killing him.
COP - Mistrial - not re-trying


John Crawford lll
Shooting of John Crawford III - Wikipedia
Crawford picked up an un-packaged BB/pellet air rifle inside the store's sporting goods section and continued shopping in the store. Another customer, Ronald Ritchie, called 911. According to Ritchie at the time, Crawford was pointing the gun at people and at children walking by, and messing with the gun. Security camera footage showed that Crawford was talking on his cellphone and holding the B.B. gun as he shopped, but at no point did he aim the B.B. gun at anyone. After the security camera footage was released, Ritchie recanted his statement that led to the fatal shooting and stated, "At no point did he shoulder the rifle and point it at somebody", while maintaining that Crawford was "waving it around". Two officers of the Beavercreek Police arrived at the Walmart shortly after their dispatcher informed them of a "subject with a gun" in the pet supplies area of the store. Sean Williams, one of the two police officers that arrived, shot Crawford in the arm and chest. He was later pronounced dead at Dayton's Miami Valley Hospital.
COPS - No charges

None guilty for the SAME thing this cop did in this case. Whats different? hmm

BBM. All three cases you cite are appalling.

In this case, one juror said he believes JD did slap the police cruiser. That's interaction. He also admitted they didn't understand the legal definitions yet apparently decided they didn't need to ask the judge for clarification. I think the appeal will be swift. The was absolutely no way for those officers to know Justine was not a threat to them when she tapped the car.

Raguse: Do you think Justine slapped that police car?

Juror: I would say she probably, in my opinion, did make contact with the car. But we didn’t really feel that was super-relevant. Yeah, officers get startled all the time, and she poses no threat.

Juror reflects on Noor verdict

 

[mickey2942]

I don't like comparing "Apples to Squid", each police officer involved shooting has a separate series of events that occurred.

What I really can't stand is the implication in any police officer shooting, that race is a major factor. It is not. If Officer Noor had been white, and he shot a white woman, I believe that the outcome would have been exactly the same.

This is not about race.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, I remember the NYC incident. Terrible. However my question was 'What other case has an officer shot someone before they had any interaction with them?'

'Officer shot someone'

The juror said he believes Justine DID make contact with the police cruiser. That is interaction initiated by Justine.

JMO

Juror reflects on Noor verdict

 

[they'll get you]

Where does it say she never shot to kill?

That was my comment as was ‘that’s my girl’.

 

[MyBelle]

We all need to confront the truth.

And sorry but bashing rape victims, exaggerating fake claims, and dismissing precedent when it comes to police homicide only hurts people.

Theres a reason this case has so much interest and how easy it was to find the LE guilty. Its not the same in others.

Oh and BTW Wiki pedia sites it's sources at the bottom, its a helpful way to compile actual sources. I assume you didnt know that

This case will continue to have much public interest and it most definitely will be appealed. I think the public interest is well justified.

JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

https://www.theroot.com/former-minneapolis-cop-found-guilty-of-murder-in-death-1834432731
Perhaps unlike former officer Noor, the officer in the Castile case —or officers in the numerous fatal shootings of young black people across this nation —just wasn’t “other” enough as the first Somali American cop in the city of Minneapolis likely was viewed.

So, in this case, there is perhaps “justice” for one family who wrongly lost a loved one to a police officer’s bullet.

Where is the justice for the rest?


BBM. All three cases you cite are appalling.

In this case, one juror said he believes JD did slap the police cruiser. That's interaction. He also admitted they didn't understand the legal definitions yet apparently decided they didn't need to ask the judge for clarification. I think the appeal will be swift. The was absolutely no way for those officers to know Justine was not a threat to them when she tapped the car.

Raguse: Do you think Justine slapped that police car?

Juror: I would say she probably, in my opinion, did make contact with the car. But we didn’t really feel that was super-relevant. Yeah, officers get startled all the time, and she poses no threat.

Juror reflects on Noor verdict

He said there was some confusion about the legal definitions, so they used the instructions to break it down. Everything they needed was right there in the instructions. If they had asked the judge, he would have referred them to the instructions. The jury did exactly what they should have. There is no reversible error there.