MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

[Irish_Eyes]

I'm guessing DJ ran when the first shot went off in the car. Can't blame him either.

 

[katydid23]

He might have. Who knows. But conjecture like that isn't enough to support justification. There are a lot of people that might assault someone else. That doesn't justify using deadly force unless they are actually posing that imminent threat at that specific period in time when the fatal shots are fired. JMHO.

You are correct. And from the officers POV, he was a threat, as he had just been attacked by him moments earlier.

 

[aa9511]

What this tells me is that in those initial moments after the shooting officer Wilson didn't tell any of his fellow officers that he suspected MB as "strong armed robber". Initially the chief said point blank that he stopped them because of jaywalking. It wasn't until later that they decided Wilson had heard the BOLO as the incident was happening. My opinion (and still doesn't really prove justified shooting or not) is that they realized how bad it looked that an unarmed kid was shot for jaywalking. Luckily for them, they had him on video apparently robbing a store in the moments before, so now they could say that Wilson realized that as things were in progress. Not sure if I buy it.

Well with this new audio tape (which I think is authentic), the phone experts should be able to retrieve exact times of the gunshots. And the BOLO will be time-stamped. So should be pretty easy to figure out now.

 

[PaperDoll]

I didn't say anything about why he was shot, I am simply saying that I am doubting Wilson knew at any point in time during that incident that MB may have committed any kind of crime. Others here have been analyzing the store video for days saying it proves that MB was capable of violence.... I am saying it is irrelevant, because I don't think Wilson knew anything about it.

Wilson may not have known anything about that video/robbery, but he knew MB was trouble.. MOO!

 

[CoolJ]

One question I have is that if DW didn't ask them about the robbery, why did DJ run? At that point, DJ did nothing wrong.

Maybe because he was scared that he was going to get shot.

 

[reedus23]

I admit I'm having a hard time figuring out why people are so stuck on this. Both the officer's side and DJ's side, who are the only two living people to have witnessed the whole encounter agree that the encounter began with the officer telling them to get out of the street. The chief's statement is totally in agreement with that. It's a 100% accurate statement that the first contact wasn't related to robbery. That's not why he initially stopped them. It may be that he heard the BOLO later, or that he had heard the BOLO earlier but didn't make the connection until he noticed the cigars, etc. Maybe he didn't even hear the BOLO, and his entire reason for identifying Brown as a threat was the struggle for the gun or the alleged facial injury.

I can accept your argument on the other points whether I agree or disagree. Regarding the bolded, until someone provides a reasonable explanation for the report, I will not believe he made any connection to the robbery at any time while at the scene much less before the shooting or else that report would not read like that. If I remember correctly, I think Josie might have put that version forward as well.

 

[tlcya]

Yes, I think you are trying to clear up a HUGE misconception that seems to have taken hold here. When Baden referred to the "front" it is the location on the body as mapped by standard autopsy and medical drawings- not the direction the bullet wound came from. Those are two distinctly different things. And in the front view, the palms are up, what we would normally refer to the underside of the arm facing up. If your arms are down, you would not see this underside from the front.
More importantly, the wound was a graze on the edge and it may be impossible to say where it came from, because arms twist and move separately from the body.

Anyone disputing this- where did Baden say the bullet wounds were all from a frontal assault? Nowhere. That was an incorrect assumption.

Dr. Baden provided a diagram of the entry wounds, and noted that the six shots produced numerous wounds. Some of the bullets entered and exited several times, including one that left at least five different wounds.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html

two people familiar with the official county autopsy of Michael Brown said Monday.
The autopsy by St. Louis County chief medical examiner Mary Case, released to state prosecutors late Friday, found that Brown, 18, had six gunshot wounds to the head and chest and was shot from the front, the people said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...016ef8-26f4-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html


One bullet entered and exited Brown several times. That shot struck the teen above the right eyeball, went through his face, left through his jaw and re-entered his collarbone.


It is believed that five of the shots hit Brown on the front of his body.


However Parcells said that the gunshot wound to Brown's forearm appeared to be consistent with someone walking away or putting their arms up in a surrender or defensive manner before adding, 'but we don't know'.


Following the family's press conference on Monday, St Louis County medical examiner Mary Case said Brown had suffered between six and eight gunshot wounds and was shot from the front.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727568/Autopsy-reveals-Michael-Brown-shot-SIX-times-confrontation-police-

Six bullets struck Brown, Dr. Baden said in a press conference earlier today. Two may have exited and re-entered Brown’s body, he said, resulting in multiple wounds.

SNIP


Prof. Parcells said a wound on Brown’s right arm was “consistent with a witness statement” that Brown was first shot while facing away from Wilson, but he stressed that he and Dr. Baden could not determine conclusively the trajectories of the bullets that hit Brown—or which direction he was moving—when he was shot. The wounds “could be consistent with going forward or going backward,” Dr. Baden said.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-we-learned-michael-browns-autopsy-265247

MOO, Dr. Case, original state autopsy says FROM the front not into but FROM. Dr. Baden and Parcell who performed an autopsy without all the evidence the state had and after the body had been embalmed state possibly maybe but we cant say for sure one MAY have come from behind and struck his forearm.

I will stick with the orignal autposy results when Dr. Baden himself admits that the first autopsy would likely be more accurate based on his lack of the same evidence being available to him and having to perform it second after the first one. But that's just me.

 

[aa9511]

One question I have is that if DW didn't ask them about the robbery, why did DJ run? At that point, DJ did nothing wrong.

DJ said, IIRC, that he started running after the first gunshot and he looked over at MB and saw blood on him. That'll make someone run, for sure.

 

[DebinGA]

I'm guessing DJ ran when the first shot went off in the car. Can't blame him either.

DJ: "He [OW] said, 'I'll shoot you. I'm going to shoot.' And in the same moment, the first shot went off. And we looked down, and he was shot, blood coming from him. And we took off running."

 

[Oceans]

He might have. Who knows. But conjecture like that isn't enough to support justification. There are a lot of people that might assault someone else. That doesn't justify using deadly force unless they are actually posing that imminent threat at that specific period in time when the fatal shots are fired. JMHO.

That's exactly what happened, IMO.

 

[Truthy]

Here is an article on FPD saying first contact wasn't related to robbery, contradicting the theory that DW knew all along they were connected to the robbery.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...e6fd5c-249f-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

As to the report...page 15, nearly last entry on that page at 18:54:26.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/pa...rtment-incident-report-on-aug-9-robbery/1256/

Thank you! I had been looking for that- IMHO the info from police and leaks have been pretty shady. They have done a great job of manipulating the public, but not much else.

Someone else promised to find me links where the cops were told it was okay to hide their identities at the protest (and refuse to ID themselves to those being arrested) , which is against police regulations- I have looked and looked for sources on that and it appears to be more conjecture from OW supporters and nothing else.

 

[Apollo]

I didn't say anything about why he was shot, I am simply saying that I am doubting Wilson knew at any point in time during that incident that MB may have committed any kind of crime. Others here have been analyzing the store video for days saying it proves that MB was capable of violence.... I am saying it is irrelevant, because I don't think Wilson knew anything about it.

Um...yes you did, CoolJ. Here's what you posted "My opinion (and still doesn't really prove justified shooting or not) is that they realized how bad it looked that an unarmed kid was shot for jaywalking."
But I agree with you that it's very possible that Wilson didn't know about what went on in the store. Or maybe he did---we don't know for sure.

 

[Oceans]

He might have. Who knows. But conjecture like that isn't enough to support justification. There are a lot of people that might assault someone else. That doesn't justify using deadly force unless they are actually posing that imminent threat at that specific period in time when the fatal shots are fired. JMHO.

That's exactly what happened, IMO.

 

[Foxfire]

They did put 2 and 2 together. But I don't think they did until late that night or even the next day. But until that can be explained, I just can't buy any story that involves anyone in the FPD, including Wilson, connecting MB with the robbery at the time of the incident. I have my own thoughts on the timing of it all, but I'll just keep those to myself.

Not sure who you are referring too as they, Reedus23, but I can assure you that OW had instinctively put 2 & 2 together immediately due to his reaction to the incident, imo.. Imo, MB knew that OW had put 2 + 2 together when he slammed the door and assaulted OW...

 

[Apollo]

I didn't say anything about why he was shot, I am simply saying that I am doubting Wilson knew at any point in time during that incident that MB may have committed any kind of crime. Others here have been analyzing the store video for days saying it proves that MB was capable of violence.... I am saying it is irrelevant, because I don't think Wilson knew anything about it.

Um...yes you did, CoolJ. Here's what you posted "My opinion (and still doesn't really prove justified shooting or not) is that they realized how bad it looked that an unarmed kid was shot for jaywalking."
But I agree with you that it's very possible that Wilson didn't know about what went on in the store. Or maybe he did---we don't know for sure.

 

[katydid23]

Well with this new audio tape (which I think is authentic), the phone experts should be able to retrieve exact times of the gunshots. And the BOLO will be time-stamped. So should be pretty easy to figure out now.

So I wonder why Darryl Parks just told Nancy Grace that he had 'doubts about the authenticity' of that audiotape.

He told Nancy that he doubted it because the first shot was not heard, but I am not sure that is the real reason. :cow:

 

[reedus23]

But it does not matter if the officer knew about the robbery. What matters is that the teen KNEW he was carrying the stolen cigars and figured the cop would know. That is the important part.

I get your point and understand what you're saying. I would say that Wilson not knowing is important in the following regard. One part (not all) of the statute relating to justification relates to situations where the officer knows the subject committed or is attempting to commit a felony. His not knowing eliminates his ability to use THAT PORTION, not the entirety, but that portion of the statute to establish justification.

 

[Lovejac]

He wasnt shot for jaywalking because he wasn't jaywalking, he was walking down the middle of the street. He wasn't shot for walking down the middle of the street either. He also wasn't shot for robbing the store. He was shot for getting into an altercation with Wilson.

ITA. I'll go a few steps further and say he got shot for assaulting the officer and trying to take his gun.

 

[katydid23]

Why? Because of clothes? Skin color? His strut? How did he know he was trouble?

DJ already told us they were blocking traffic and that when the cop asked them to step out of the road, they said "NO, we are a block from our destination, we will get out the way later..."

that might have been the first clue.

 

[DebinGA]

The last 1-2 shots were fatal, all the others were survivable. I think Crump, Inc. wanted to claim OW paused just before the fatal shots, i.e. thought about killing MB, and pulled the trigger twice. But in the new audio imo the last 4 shots are steady and unbroken - bambambambam.