MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #13

[Phoebeb]

BBM.

It has been linked upthread that the ME's office was in the process of handling a multi-vehicle crash with multiple victims at the time of the MB shooting. That accounts for what is being perceived as a "delay", or "slow response" by the ME to process the scene and remove the body.

Would the police on the scene have been negligent to cover the body before the evidence was collected? I really don't know, I'm asking if there is a reason not to have covered his body or put the screen up as far as evidence like blood spatter, any clues that needed to be photographed, etc

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Brown could not have been moved until the ME arrived on the scene. This is the same in every case where the person is clearly deceased. If there was a chance that Brown would have been saved if taken to the ER, then he would have been moved. However, LE would have not been doing their jobs correctly if they had tampered (moved Brown) the scene before it was investigated and photos, measurements, etc were taken.

I do agree with that.. But 4 hours is too long IMO. I had a friend who was a coroner. I know how it all works. A body laying out for 4 hours in the street is not common. In a house? maybe longer than the street but in the street IMO 4 hours is too long.

 

[tlcya]

I disagree. 4 hours is a lot of time. They could have covered him or put up a barrier around him to cover him from public eye.

Scarlet, he was covered within 10 to 15 minutes per MSM and police officials statements. he was covered by a sheet by an ambulance driver who happened upon the scene even before official backup and responders arrived at the scene. His feet remained visible under the sheet, true. And it did take some time but he was then hidden behind a partition style device used for such scenes. He did lay there more than 4 hours by LE officials own admissions but that was because the required investigators took longer than expected to arrive to assess and do their jobs and his body was not in view for that four hours. For much of that four hour time span MB was hidden from view of onlookers.

I hope that helps. I believe I or another member linked that information with relevant snips from the articles in the media thread. sometime within the last week when this was discussed several threads back.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No family member ever gets to see any of the evidence a Prosecutor has and an autopsy report is considered evidence. While there is a GJ empaneled and an on going investigation it just isn't going to happen. The DA has no obligation whatsoever to share any of their evidence with anyone including family members. Most of the time they have to wait just like everyone else for it to come out in a trial if there is one.

The DA represents the victim only. He/she doesn't even really do that. Their sole obligation is to see that the defendant is proven guilty BARD for the crime(s) that they have been charged with. That is why we often see and complain that the DA doesn't bring the victim to life in their part of the case but that is not his/her role nor obligation. He/she does not represent family members either.

Now once the GJ has decided what they are going to do one way or the other the AR may be published by a media outlet like the AP who usually does them. Or they may become public record and anyone can see them or buy copies if they wish.

Should this go to trial the defense is the only one who has a right to see the original AR since it is a part of discovery.

IF OW is indicted and hopefully that wont happen.........the AR will remain sealed to the public imo and will only be given to the DT.

IMO

 

[CoolJ]

It's not what I want to believe, it's common sense and logic. No need to remind me about what my opinion is either please. I'm me, and I obviously know what I think, what I logically conclude from real evidence and laws, and what I post.

I never have to twist things into a pretzel or make outlandish scenarios to see what's real here and what's not. I go with what is.

My common sense and logic sees things differently. <modsnip> I will also say that I do not have to make any assumptions and generalizations to see what's real here and what is not. I go with what is, with what the facts show thus far.

 

[Ladylub]

I disagree. 4 hours is a lot of time. They could have covered him or put up a barrier around him to cover him from public eye.

I do not think handling of the body would have stopped any of the issues b/c people complained about the body being out there and then they complained when the screen was put up and you could not see what they were doing. I know I read one person saying they could have planted evidence

 

[Linda7NJ]

There is a need to preserve evidence but there is also a need to make sure that the body is not out in the street too long. I have never seen a body lay in the middle of the street 4 hours. So that bothers me greatly.

Well...I'm glad you've never witnessed it. That's a good thing, right?

In homicide cases...it's my opinion...bodies lay a long time.

Of course, in this case, it was delayed even longer than absolutely necessary by gunfire in the vicinity.



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[TorisMom003]

I do agree with that.. But 4 hours is too long IMO. I had a friend who was a coroner. I know how it all works. A body laying out for 4 hours in the street is not common. In a house? maybe longer than the street but in the street IMO 4 hours is too long.

Did you follow the Rebecca Zahau case? Her body was left outside for a lot longer than 4 hours for the media flying overhead to take all of the photos that they wanted. She was not even covered with a sheet even though she was completely nude. The ME had other things to do so she was left in the open, uncovered, until the ME arrived.

 

[cady]

Brown could not have been moved until the ME arrived on the scene. This is the same in every case where the person is clearly deceased. If there was a chance that Brown would have been saved if taken to the ER, then he would have been moved. However, LE would have not been doing their jobs correctly if they had tampered (moved Brown) the scene before it was investigated and photos, measurements, etc were taken.

Agree. And the same should be true for all evidence and photos related to OW, on the scene. JMO

 

[Clar]

I do agree with that.. But 4 hours is too long IMO. I had a friend who was a coroner. I know how it all works. A body laying out for 4 hours in the street is not common. In a house? maybe longer than the street but in the street IMO 4 hours is too long.

just IMO I think a good question would be, how many resources to get a ME to the scene were readily available in Ferguson, as I understand it, didn't they even need to bring in a outsider to help do the autopsy. I also agree it is disturbing.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Scarlet, he was covered within 10 to 15 minutes per MSM and police officials statements. he was covered by a sheet by an ambulance driver who happened upon the scene even before official backup and responders arrived at the scene. His feet remained visible under the sheet, true. And it did take some time but he was then hidden behind a partition style device used for such scenes. He did lay there more than 4 hours by LE officials own admissions but that was because the required investigators took longer than expected to arrive to assess and do their jobs and his body was not in view for that four hours. For much of that four hour time span MB was hidden from view of onlookers.

I hope that helps. I believe I or another member linked that information with relevant snips from the articles in the media thread. sometime within the last week when this was discussed several threads back.

Thank you..

With cases like this, I have just learned to keep a completely open mind until I get all the facts. I don't think anyone will win here. I do believe that as officers their burden to be safe and not kill anyone unless it is absolutely necessary. I have a lot of things in this case that bother me.

 

[CoolJ]

BBM
You proved my point from earlier.

I don't see how you get that cause the fact is he DID hit his arm. You were trying to say that all shots should have been perfectly placed? After the pause, do you not see how it is possible the bullets hit another part of the body? OW was shooting at a moving target, the shots are not going to necessarily line up perfectly like he was at a shooting range or something? <modsnip>

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Did you follow the Rebecca Zahau case? Her body was left outside for a lot longer than 4 hours for the media flying overhead to take all of the photos that they wanted. She was not even covered with a sheet even though she was completely nude. The ME had other things to do so she was left in the open, uncovered, until the ME arrived.

That is a shame and they should have covered her up.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I do agree with that.. But 4 hours is too long IMO. I had a friend who was a coroner. I know how it all works. A body laying out for 4 hours in the street is not common. In a house? maybe longer than the street but in the street IMO 4 hours is too long.

What's the difference house verses street?


I am sure there is a difference say from a shooting death in Philadelphia or Camden where it's a weekly plus occurrence.they're probably more efficient as shootings occur daily to what ferguson local is used to ... Does ferguson even have their own ME? How large of an area are we talking about this particular ME covers?
You aren't taking any of those things into consideration?






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[cady]

Exactly. LE handled the situation the best that they could. I still do wish that the "eye witnesses" had not been allowed to share with one another (and Brown's family) what they "saw". It makes it all the more difficult to get a true and accurate description as to what each person individually saw.

MOO

Agree. ALL eyewitnesses, including Darren Wilson. JMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What's the difference house verses street?


I am sure there is a difference say from a shooting death in Philadelphia or Camden where it's a weekly plus occurrence.they're probably more efficient as shootings occur daily to what ferguson local is used to ... Does ferguson even have their own ME? How large of an area are we talking about this particular ME covers?
You aren't taking any of those things into consideration?






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I think that 4 hours is too long.
I don't see a reason for it.

 

[PaperDoll]

No. It only tells which way the bullet hit the body not where it was coming from.

Lol, ok I'm confused (which is easy to do). :waitasec: If it shows which way the bullet hit the body, wouldn't that also be from front to back, or back to front?

 

[tlcya]

Thank you..

With cases like this, I have just learned to keep a completely open mind until I get all the facts. I don't think anyone will win here. I do believe that as officers their burden to be safe and not kill anyone unless it is absolutely necessary. I have a lot of things in this case that bother me.

I completely understand your position and respect it and I also know you and have been following cases alongside you long enough to know that you are one for facts and not one for misinformation so I was glad to help on this particular fact. Because I too was under the same misunderstanding about body laying in view of onlookers for four hours. Someone else provided me the relevant links and it's why I feel confident I now know the facts of it.

 

[K_Z]

Did you follow the Rebecca Zahau case? Her body was left outside for a lot longer than 4 hours for the media flying overhead to take all of the photos that they wanted. She was not even covered with a sheet even though she was completely nude. The ME had other things to do so she was left in the open, uncovered, until the ME arrived.

Yes, in that case the victim was laying in the hot sun, exposed to helicopter photography, and kids on adjacent rooftops, for 13 hours before the ME arrived. In a very affluent beachside community. No tents, nothing. So MB's body was treated with a lot more respect, IMO, than other victims have been. There are other examples, but that would be going astray and OT.

 

[CoolJ]

I do trust officer Wilson.
His record is clean. Zero dirt in him.

~

I know for a fact that what happened to BROWN would NEVER happen to me. I don't rob nor do I assault police officers. I have the ability and desire to obey laws and follow instructions. So YES, I trust them.




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His clean record doesn't prove anything for me. The baddest of bad criminals all had a first offence. Also, to conclude this as unjustified doesn't necessarily mean OW had any sort of malicious intent. It could be simply that he "stretched his boundaries"
Whether it would ever happen to you or not doesn't mean anything with regards to this case. MB may not have been a perfect citizen (he may not have been that bad either, I do not know)it even the worst criminals out on the streets should not be getting gunned down UNLESS there is justifiable reason. I have yet to see that in this case.