MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[BirdycatNY]

I was speculating if MB was possibly depressed? Maybe even suicidal? And in combination with the marijuana and possible something else he 'dared' the officer and just didn't care about his own life any longer. JMO. I made a post about this in the previous thread.

Yes, I wonder whether intoxication and/or mental issues plays a part in MB's behavior/actions too.

 

[mdana]

police report
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/Ferguson.pdf

link to websleuths media forum for this case
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...el-Brown-*Media-Timelines-Maps*-No-Discussion

I have seen parts of that before, but where does the shop owner sign off on it which has been alleged in many previous posts? I don't see where the signature is or is blacked out. What page is it on?

 

[Footwarrior]

A few more items of physical evidence:

Location of cigars.

Dispatch recording.

911 call recording.

Does FPD have a separate communications system or is this handled by some other agency?

 

[nothingnew]

Page 2. Name redacted, business. Willing to prosecute.

 

[nothingnew]

I have seen parts of that before, but where does the shop owner sign off on it which has been alleged in many previous posts? I don't see where the signature is or is blacked out. What page is it on?

Replied to you but forgot to add your quote, my bad. The " willing to prosecute" would be the "signing" I think.

 

[human]

MB would be a good candidate to answer those questions if he had survived. It's sad that his young life is lost. Maybe his good friend Dorian Johnson can shed more light on this, what led to this incident.

One possibility could be that MB was "on something" as Josie indicated. MB had marijuana in his system. Maybe there was another substance in his system that he would not think clear.

I was speculating if MB was possibly depressed? Maybe even suicidal? And in combination with the marijuana and possible something else he 'dared' the officer and just didn't care about his own life any longer. JMO. I made a post about this in the previous thread.

Does marijuana make someone violent?

If something does not make sense to me, there is a reason.

Why someone would go up against LE without a weapon makes no sense.

Isn't suicide by cop more common when someone has done a violent crime and I don't mean taking some cigars from a store.

Very strange to put oneself in front of a loaded gun

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, I wonder whether intoxication and/or mental issues plays a part in MB's behavior/actions too.

Maybe he was just impulsive, ignorant as to the consequences and emboldened?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[katydid23]

May or may not be a violation. Don't know. But I'm sure those kind of things will be looked at. If they are applied even handedly across the board then no worries. I have only seen it happen in some of the small municipalities in north county though.

My traffic court is in Malibu, California. They absolutely close the door shortly after the initial sign -in. I have seen people turned away, although they also left their names on a list, I believe. Not sure what happens with the list, but they are shut out of the proceedings. And this is Malibu, which is not predominately a minority community. Although there are a lot of Lakers and Clippers living here. :wink:

 

[gngr~snap]

IMO, the GJ will be able to listen to the statements several witnesses made to the media. And hopefully be able to ask them additional questions. After all, some of those statements gave the impression that MB had his hands up in surrender, that he was shot in the back etc which let to an outcry in the community. I sure hope the GJ has the opportunity to have a good look at those witnesses and have the chance to interrogate them thoroughly.

I hope as well that the forensic and ballistic evidence gives a much clearer picture and corroborates with witness statements. Those witnesses might be the ones we have not seen or heard of in the media, JMO.

IMO, a person can run 35 feet in three seconds. 35 feet, that is the distance where I'm sitting here at my computer, going through our entire large living room through the hallway out the front door. Looking at this distance, those 35 feet, yes, I could run that in 3 seconds. (I'm quite healthy and fit.)

35 yards = 105 feet. I would guess it would take 6 to 7 seconds to run that.

IMO, ODW fired only that one shot in the vehicle while MB tried to grab his gun. Then MB took off running and only stopped and turned around when ODW yelled "FREEZE". I believe, MB then taunted ODW which his arms to the side, saying something like "what? Are you going to shoot me?" and then suddenly running full speed towards ODW in an effort to bull-rush him. And that is when ODW starting shooting the first rounds but when MB just "kept on coming" towards ODW, he shot the second round. That's just my opinion.

I believe the bullet which landed in the window frame might have been from the struggle when MB was trying to grab ODW's gun. JMO.

I am trying to remember the 100 yd dash from elementary school. Even back then at a whopping 40# and 3 1/2- 4 ft tall happened fast...
I admit that I am much closer to 50 than 40, so my memory may not be 100%.

All posts are MOO

 

[gngr~snap]

These are the kinda questions I ask myself practically about every single thread topic here at Websleuths.
The criminal mind makes absolutely no logical sense to me. Maybe that's why I have stuck around here for so many years?
I try to comprehend it and hope for justice.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IMO... (it is lame, I admit it)
"Magical Thinking "
Or "Fantastical Thinking "

They are technically "men" ,but the frontal lobe still has them "hooked ".
*just like the 5 yr old that wishes someone dead, who does actually die! The 5 yr old didn't cause the death, but will believe for a long time it was their fault...
The other option is ingestion of an "upper" and with zero proof of that, I have to resort to what I was taught.

All posts are MOO

 

[katydid23]

Does marijuana make someone violent?

If something does not make sense to me, there is a reason.

Why someone would go up against LE without a weapon makes no sense.

Isn't suicide by cop more common when someone has done a violent crime and I don't mean taking some cigars from a store.

Very strange to put oneself in front of a loaded gun

Nothing MB was doing that morning made much sense. He was acting in a very illogical way. After stealing the cigarillos and assaulting the store owner, one would think he would walk home quietly, to escape notice.

Why was he walking down the center of the road, holding stolen merchandise? And they saw the cop car approaching from quite a distance. Why did they stay in the middle of the road, after committing a felony moments earlier?

And why did they refuse the request by OW to step to the sidewalk? He must have WANTED a confrontation. He was holding the stolen cigarillos, blocking traffic and refusing to step out of the middle of the road. Totally bizarre behavior, imo.

He was not thinking straight.

You ask why he would put himself in front of a load gun. I can ask the same type of question about OW.

Why would he roll up on 2 teens, in broad daylight, visible to dozens of <modsnip> balconies, with an audience of people who dislike LE, and then just attack this kid, grab him by the neck, unprovoked, try to pull him into the car thru the window,and threaten to shoot him, then pull a weapon? WHY would an officer do that?

 

[DebinGA]

I'd like to hear from someone familiar with gang initiations in St. Louis, because the store robbery fits the bill in my uninformed opinion. That's where the presence of Unknown Guy (UG, entering/leaving with MB and watching the robbery carefully), comes in as designated gang "verifier" that MB followed through satisfactorily.

 

[Klood-N]

Catching up, I think the Grand Jury is reviewing Officer Wilson's medical reports regarding injuries from Michael.

Hospital X-rays of the injury have been submitted to the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney and will be shared with a grand jury now weighing evidence to determine whether Officer Darren Wilson should be charged in the shooting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...7524ea-293c-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html


I think it's pretty clear that Michael injured him, especially when Chief Belmar relayed that's what the preliminary investigation showed, and one of the family's attorneys references evidence of injuries to the officer.



That Brown was unarmed is undisputed -- St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said every casing found at the scene was from the officer's weapon -- but he said at a Sunday news conference that Brown was not an innocent victim.

"The genesis of this was a physical confrontation," Belmar said, adding that Ferguson police asked his office to investigate the case.

Without revealing what led to the dispute, Belmar said the preliminary investigation showed that the Ferguson officer tried to exit his vehicle, but Brown pushed him back into the car, "where he physically assaulted the police officer" and struggled over the officer's weapon, Belmar said.

The officer was taken to an area hospital where he was treated for a "swollen face," Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said, adding he had not personally seen the officer's injury.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/

The officer who shot Brown was injured in the confrontation and the “side of his face was swollen,” Jackson said. The officer was treated at a hospital, the chief said, and he was “very shaken.”
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-police-shooting-08132014-story.html

Jackson, who spoke on the phone with News 4's Laura Hettiger Wednesday morning, said the officer "was hit" and the "side of his face was swollen."
http://www.kmov.com/special-coverag...oting-suffered-facial-injuries-271079471.html

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.

“The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side,” said the insider. “He was beaten very severely.”

Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket in the fracas, and was left dazed by the initial confrontation, the source said. He is now "traumatized, scared for his life and his family, injured and terrified"...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/

A family friend of Wilson’s told The Washington Post that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket. Ferguson police have said that Wilson’s face was injured and he needed medical treatment...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ecutors-have-not-spoken-to-darren-wilson-yet/


"Nancy, without question, there was some level of interaction, strong interaction, between the officer and Michael at the car. We don`t deny that,” Daryl Parks, attorney for Brown’s family said Monday night. “I think as evidence comes out, you'll see and hear more of that.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/08/18/michael-brown-shooting-autopsy-fight-car

PARKS: Nancy, without question, there was some level of interaction, strong interaction, between the officer and Michael at the car. We don`t deny that. I think as evidence comes out, you`ll see and hear more of that. But that`s not what killed him.

GRACE: But wait a minute. When we first started --

PARKS: What killed him were the kill shots.

GRACE: -- you told me that the cop grabbed him from inside the car, and was struggling with him that way.

PARKS: I didn`t tell you that. I told you there was an interaction. This would be the first time you talking to me about them at the car. So that interaction didn`t happen at the car. More than a tussle, I would call it...


PARKS: Nancy, you`re talking about two different things. The part about the gun involved when the officer was in the car and attempted to get out of the car, first of all, and I admitted to you there was some type of altercation that happened as the officer was in the car and Michael was outside of the car...

NG: ...Daryl, I want to get back to the physical confrontation with the police officers. In your scenario, when does that happen in relation to the other bullets fired?

PARKS: Nancy, from the evidence that we have so far, there was something that happened between Michael and the officer while the officer was in the car, without question. I think that the evidence in this case, though, will have to look at what the injuries to the officer and the injuries to Michael that may be attributed to whatever happened as Michael stood outside of the car.

"that cut mark plus the other injuries to Michael`s hand plus whatever injuries to the officer, then you can start explaining what may have happened in the car."


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/18/ng.01.html

:31 forward, listen at :41 "there may have been blows, they had an altercation" - Daryl Parks

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/the-kelly-file/index.html#/v/3739124713001

DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: "...without question we know, that there was a major altercation at the car. There's no question about that, so you will never hear me say there wasn't a major altercation within the car. There was even a gunshot...within the car"
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/20/ng.01.html

Officer Darren Wilson also reportedly suffered injuries to his face and neck.
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/21/fox-2...-from-witnesses-of-fatal-mike-brown-shooting/

It looks like a local station is reporting injuries to Darren's neck too.


And it looks like that will be key evidence. (Also from NG transcript dated 8/20 above):


NG: "...I want to hear it from you, Daryl, because if Michael Brown beat this cop in the face to start things off, then no jury in this -- no grand jury is going to indict him."

 

[Klood-N]

I'd like to hear from someone familiar with gang initiations in St. Louis, because the store robbery fits the bill in my uninformed opinion. That's where the presence of Unknown Guy (UG, entering/leaving with MB and watching the robbery carefully), comes in as designated gang "verifier" that MB followed through satisfactorily.

Hm. Interesting thought. From the few gang members I've known, jumping in was how you became a full member, but I have seen some media reports of other crimes that were supposedly part of some groups' ritual. I don't think UG was involved though.

From my notes, it looks like he certainly wasn't unfamiliar with gangs.



Brown, he says, could be led astray by kids who were bad influences but by spring, he became focused on getting his degree.

Kennedy, his teacher, says Brown had to break free from being around kids who "caused him to be in the wrong place at the wrong time a lot of times. .... He had been around too many thugs."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-brown-called-a-little-kid-in-a-big-body-ahead-of-funeral/


&#8220;You may see him on a picture with some friends that may have been in a gang,&#8221; Ms. McSpadden said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/25/u...eeks-grappling-with-lifes-mysteries.html?_r=1


Michael's social media and his lyrics seem to indicate at least a desire to be identified as affiliated. It's sad that anyone wants to emulate that. I've heard and read that even wannabe's can be dangerous.

 

[Lovejac]

I think that that is probably a bit of an overstatement. Some things will change though. For example, a circle that I have seen play out more often than not is Jane Doe gets a traffic ticket. Jane Doe is given a Court date of 9/7/14. Jane Doe has a baby and can't find a babysitter but knows she has a Court date so, not wanting to create further problems, appears at the Courthouse on 9/7/14 but is turned away at the door because she brought her baby. Jane Doe now is charged with failing to appear even though she did appear and not just that but now Jane Doe has a warrant issued. Also, in Missouri, because she "failed to appear" for her Court date, the same Court that turned her away at the door can also turn in the failure to appear to Jefferson City and now Jane Doe not only has a warrant for "failing to appear" but also has a compliance suspension of her license for "failing to appear". Now Jane Doe, who was breaking no laws at the time, is pulled over simply because a cop was following behind her and decided to run her plates, which comes back showing a suspended license. Maybe she's actually taken to jail. Maybe not. Now, what was going to be an $80 fine for speeding has turned into $80(underlying ticket) plus $100(FTA) plus $250(driving while suspended) plus $20(reinstatement fee) equals $450 all because she was turned away at the door and told she failed to appear when she did, in fact appear. Not everyone can then afford the $450 and guess what. The circle goes on and on and on. The system guarantees it won't end.

Maybe Jane Doe should use the other options for traffic tickets that wouldn't require a babysitter. Like pay online or by mail. Those were options available the last time I got a traffic ticket.

I would even go a step further and suggest not breaking any traffic laws.

 

[Lovejac]

Maybe he was just impulsive, ignorant as to the consequences and emboldened?



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IMO it never occurred to MB that Officer Wilson would shoot him. MB had just bullied the store keeper into backing off and thought he could do the same thing to Officer Wilson. I imagine also that MB was a little surprised to see Officer Wilson recover so quickly from the beating that MB had just given him.

 

[Klood-N]

Unless Michael had traffic violations or outstanding fines, it saddens me that his death is being exploited by some in the Ferguson area to address their own completely unrelated incidents. I mean he was obstructing traffic and that probably would have been one of many charges he faced from that day, but otherwise it just looks like another random demand made at his expense.

 

[Footwarrior]

Unless Michael had traffic violations or outstanding fines, it saddens me that his death is being exploited by some in the Ferguson area to address their own completely unrelated incidents. I mean he was obstructing traffic and that probably would have been one of many charges he faced from that day, but otherwise it just looks like another random demand made at his expense.

The issue of tickets for minor offenses existed long before the shooting. It is just one of several reasons why the relationship between the police and the community was poor.

 

[Elley Mae]

Just some thoughts.

I would think that there had to be some conversation between DJ and MB about the cop car approaching as OW was approaching in his car. As OW was approaching I wonder if he too was saying to himself, at what point are the two guys in front of me going to break from walking in the center (middle) of the road. As the distance became even less between to the two walking and the vehicle I would think that it was then that OW (with window down) asked/told them to move to the sidewalk. As he proceeded I am thinking with OW being a cop he would have looked in one of the two mirrors as he was leaving. Now I am fuzzy on when OW heard about the store theft. Not sure if them staying or the theft call caused him to turn his vehicle and ended up almost sideways in the road. At some point OW attempted to exit the vehicle and got pushed/punched back. I want to think that OW would have had his hand on his weapon at this time. This is maybe when MB tried to get OW's weapon. I do wonder also if OW used a locking holster that only he could remove the weapon. That could be why MB was unable to get the weapon and took off. idk jmo

 

[Klood-N]

(Eta: oops. Still getting the hang of this. This is in reply to Footwarrior's post.)

Given mom's comments, neither she nor Michael had a poor relationship with Ferguson PD. That quote was posted last night. It doesn't appear that Michael committed the crimes that day because of traffic fines. If local outrage truly is about his death, it seems macabre to try to gain benefit from it, ie asking to have your own traffic fines and warrants erased.