MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[human]

It also takes personal responsibility, and motivation to resolve the situation, which apparently a lot of people continue to lack.

I'm rather tired of reading these "poor me" articles that tell the stories of people who make one bad/ unlawful decision after another, after another, and then complain that it's so unfair that they are being held accountable by "the system" for their poor decisions. This is an endemic problem, that is generational for a lot of families, not just the urban poor, IMO. Really tough to fix that. Maybe impossible, IDK.

Really, it is not that simple. I have never been poor except when a college student and when first married. I always had family to fall back on for any thing I needed.

For those of whom have been granted so much by accident of birth because we weren't born on the streets of Calcutta , for instance, making friends with a family in need who is motivated to move forward is something that is helpful IMHO.

People have so many barriers and brainstorming with someone who is a partner in success is life affirming for everyone. I got burned a few times and will continue to be burned, but who knows what will happen down the road with someone.

I confronted an abuser one time in a store. Got hit by him. Reported him to the police. Officer did nothing as I was not injured. I asked for him to go to the home to check on the woman as I realized I had set her up for a beating.

Officer would not go. I called domestic violence shelter. They told me to never confront an abuser because he will kill me as well ,even in a public place. BTW, these people were strangers but I found the guy's name from the store clerk.

I was talking about the abuser with a friend. She told me that the woman, right after I confronted the abuser in the store, left the abuser.

He went in for counseling and changed . He was a Vietnam Vet and had never dealt with his demons. This was at least five years ago. So one never knows

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

In my city which is very white, there have been several incidences with white officers beating people of color. One was documented on video at the detox center. The LE beat a drunken person of color who was in a wheelchair. The video is always on in the detox center.

Another one was where several LE beat a person of color who was so drunk that he could not stand up right in front of some stores. He died in the hospital.

So LE does strange things as well.

I think this is the issue. We would all like to think the Police always do the right thing and are all upstanding amazing officers but sadly that is not the truth and there are those who abuse their power or use their position to mask their prejudice. What I want out of this is that this dept is looked at and examined to the community's satisfaction. There is just too many horrible things that happened in the last month that lay in the police's lap.
I don't think MB was a saint. I don't think he was skipping along to sunday school and this "happened" to him, but at this point I am just not sure of his involvement and how it started. I am not sure of what happened in that car and I want to hear a statement from the officer.

 

[Klood-N]

It sounds like this is what the officer said:

“He pulled up ahead of them. And then he got a call-in that there was a strong-arm robbery. And, they gave a description. And, he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them. Tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael did. And, then he opened the car again. He tried to get out. He stands up.

And then Michael just bum-rushes him and shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and then Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabbed for the gun. At one point he got the gun entirely turned against his hip. And he shoves it away. And the gun goes off.

Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. And, so he really thinks he was on something.”

http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/


A caller to the St. Louis radio program The Dana Show, on Radio America, gave what she said was the officer's version of events. Her account accurately matches what Wilson has told investigators, a source with detailed knowledge of the investigation told CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/us/ferguson-michael-brown-dueling-narratives/


Wilson was coming off another case in the neighborhood on Aug. 9 when he ordered Michael Brown and his friend Dorian Johnson to stop walking in the middle of the road because they were obstructing traffic...“They ignored him and the officer started to get out of the car to tell them to move," the source said. "They shoved him right back in, that’s when Michael Brown leans in and starts beating Officer Wilson in the head and the face."
...there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman’s firearm, resulting in the gun going off – although it still remains unclear at this stage who pulled the trigger. Brown started to walk away according to the account, prompting Wilson to draw his gun and order him to freeze. Brown, the source said, raised his hands in the air, and turned around saying, "What, you're going to shoot me?"...Brown charged Wilson, prompting the officer to fire at least six shots at him

- a source close to the department's top brass
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/


“Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop’s version of events in shooting,” St. Louis Post-Dispatch crime reporter Christine Byers tweeted
http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/witnesses-say-ferguson-teen-attacked-cop-before-shooting/


The Grand Jury probably has the statements from the interviews with him and the more than twelve witnesses that corroborated them. Sounds like McCulloch is making sure they have everything.

 

[human]

Dr. Baden talked about the marijuana:

Baden weighed in on a toxicology report that allegedly shows marijuana in Brown’s system at the time of the shooting.


“Does the fact that they found marijuana, does that exclude the fact that there might be other drugs in his system or even that the marijuana was laced with anything?” Van Susteren asked the doctor. “Is that the final analysis or could there be more information to come in terms of the toxicology?”

After admitting that he had not seen the toxicology report in question yet, Baden went on to speculate about what the presence of marijuana in Brown’s system could mean.

“Very important with marijuana is the levels of the different drugs that are present in marijuana to have an opinion as to whether or not he might have been affected by the marijuana,” he said, “so that he may have been acting in a crazy way and may have done things to the police officer that normally he would not have done.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/autopsy-...uana-could-have-made-michael-brown-act-crazy/

IMO, there are many cases where suicide does not make sense. I had a friend who committed suicide when she was just 18 years old. She was extremely intelligent, sweet, young, beautiful, had great parents, she had the whole world and her whole life in front of her and then out of the blue, she committed suicide. Two days before that I had a long conversation with her, yes, she had some troubles, her parents put a lot of pressure on her to finish her high school, she was just weeks away from graduating, she could had done it easily by just attending school but she saw "no sense in her life"! After I talked to her, she sounded encouraged, had hope, seemed to be doing fine. Then she quietly planned her suicide when her friends were gone over the weekend and she was alone in the apartment, she had researched poison which would be 1000% fatal! There was a closed casket. She wrote two long letters, one to her parents apologizing for what she is going to do and how much it will hurt them. And a second letter to her closest friends. This is now many years ago and till this day, it gives me the chills, it still fills me with great sadness, I still get tears in my eyes. It was so senseless! In her case, she never indicated to anyone what she had on her mind, that she was about taking her own life.

In MB's case: I found his FB message chilling which he wrote just days before he died:

'If I leave this earth today, at least you'll know I care about others more than I cared about my damn self.'

JMO

Could be. It makes the most sense of anything.

Growing up where he did, MB was not living in a world where death and violence is only on media. He would know that an altercation with police and a gun could kill him.

 

[JLSChook]

Catching up, I think the Grand Jury is reviewing Officer Wilson's medical reports regarding injuries from Michael.

Hospital X-rays of the injury have been submitted to the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney and will be shared with a grand jury now weighing evidence to determine whether Officer Darren Wilson should be charged in the shooting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...7524ea-293c-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html


I think it's pretty clear that Michael injured him, especially when Chief Belmar relayed that's what the preliminary investigation showed, and one of the family's attorneys references evidence of injuries to the officer.



That Brown was unarmed is undisputed -- St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said every casing found at the scene was from the officer's weapon -- but he said at a Sunday news conference that Brown was not an innocent victim.

"The genesis of this was a physical confrontation," Belmar said, adding that Ferguson police asked his office to investigate the case.

Without revealing what led to the dispute, Belmar said the preliminary investigation showed that the Ferguson officer tried to exit his vehicle, but Brown pushed him back into the car, "where he physically assaulted the police officer" and struggled over the officer's weapon, Belmar said.

The officer was taken to an area hospital where he was treated for a "swollen face," Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said, adding he had not personally seen the officer's injury.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/

The officer who shot Brown was injured in the confrontation and the “side of his face was swollen,” Jackson said. The officer was treated at a hospital, the chief said, and he was “very shaken.”
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-police-shooting-08132014-story.html

Jackson, who spoke on the phone with News 4's Laura Hettiger Wednesday morning, said the officer "was hit" and the "side of his face was swollen."
http://www.kmov.com/special-coverag...oting-suffered-facial-injuries-271079471.html

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown moments before firing his gun, a source close to the department's top brass told FoxNews.com.

“The Assistant (Police) Chief took him to the hospital, his face all swollen on one side,” said the insider. “He was beaten very severely.”

Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket in the fracas, and was left dazed by the initial confrontation, the source said. He is now "traumatized, scared for his life and his family, injured and terrified"...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/

A family friend of Wilson’s told The Washington Post that Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket. Ferguson police have said that Wilson’s face was injured and he needed medical treatment...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ecutors-have-not-spoken-to-darren-wilson-yet/


"Nancy, without question, there was some level of interaction, strong interaction, between the officer and Michael at the car. We don`t deny that,” Daryl Parks, attorney for Brown’s family said Monday night. “I think as evidence comes out, you'll see and hear more of that.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/08/18/michael-brown-shooting-autopsy-fight-car

PARKS: Nancy, without question, there was some level of interaction, strong interaction, between the officer and Michael at the car. We don`t deny that. I think as evidence comes out, you`ll see and hear more of that. But that`s not what killed him.

GRACE: But wait a minute. When we first started --

PARKS: What killed him were the kill shots.

GRACE: -- you told me that the cop grabbed him from inside the car, and was struggling with him that way.

PARKS: I didn`t tell you that. I told you there was an interaction. This would be the first time you talking to me about them at the car. So that interaction didn`t happen at the car. More than a tussle, I would call it...


PARKS: Nancy, you`re talking about two different things. The part about the gun involved when the officer was in the car and attempted to get out of the car, first of all, and I admitted to you there was some type of altercation that happened as the officer was in the car and Michael was outside of the car...

NG: ...Daryl, I want to get back to the physical confrontation with the police officers. In your scenario, when does that happen in relation to the other bullets fired?

PARKS: Nancy, from the evidence that we have so far, there was something that happened between Michael and the officer while the officer was in the car, without question. I think that the evidence in this case, though, will have to look at what the injuries to the officer and the injuries to Michael that may be attributed to whatever happened as Michael stood outside of the car.

"that cut mark plus the other injuries to Michael`s hand plus whatever injuries to the officer, then you can start explaining what may have happened in the car."


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/18/ng.01.html

:31 forward, listen at :41 "there may have been blows, they had an altercation" - Daryl Parks

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/the-kelly-file/index.html#/v/3739124713001

DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: "...without question we know, that there was a major altercation at the car. There's no question about that, so you will never hear me say there wasn't a major altercation within the car. There was even a gunshot...within the car"
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/20/ng.01.html

Officer Darren Wilson also reportedly suffered injuries to his face and neck.
http://fox2now.com/2014/08/21/fox-2...-from-witnesses-of-fatal-mike-brown-shooting/

It looks like a local station is reporting injuries to Darren's neck too.


And it looks like that will be key evidence. (Also from NG transcript dated 8/20 above):


NG: "...I want to hear it from you, Daryl, because if Michael Brown beat this cop in the face to start things off, then no jury in this -- no grand jury is going to indict him."

Thank you for putting all of this in one post!

And WELCOME! :tyou::welcome4:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It sounds like this is what the officer said:

“He pulled up ahead of them. And then he got a call-in that there was a strong-arm robbery. And, they gave a description. And, he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them. Tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael did. And, then he opened the car again. He tried to get out. He stands up.

And then Michael just bum-rushes him and shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and then Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabbed for the gun. At one point he got the gun entirely turned against his hip. And he shoves it away. And the gun goes off.

Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. And, so he really thinks he was on something.”

http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/


A caller to the St. Louis radio program The Dana Show, on Radio America, gave what she said was the officer's version of events. Her account accurately matches what Wilson has told investigators, a source with detailed knowledge of the investigation told CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/us/ferguson-michael-brown-dueling-narratives/


Wilson was coming off another case in the neighborhood on Aug. 9 when he ordered Michael Brown and his friend Dorian Johnson to stop walking in the middle of the road because they were obstructing traffic...“They ignored him and the officer started to get out of the car to tell them to move," the source said. "They shoved him right back in, that’s when Michael Brown leans in and starts beating Officer Wilson in the head and the face."
...there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman’s firearm, resulting in the gun going off – although it still remains unclear at this stage who pulled the trigger. Brown started to walk away according to the account, prompting Wilson to draw his gun and order him to freeze. Brown, the source said, raised his hands in the air, and turned around saying, "What, you're going to shoot me?"...Brown charged Wilson, prompting the officer to fire at least six shots at him

- a source close to the department's top brass
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/


“Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop’s version of events in shooting,” St. Louis Post-Dispatch crime reporter Christine Byers tweeted
http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/witnesses-say-ferguson-teen-attacked-cop-before-shooting/


The Grand Jury probably has the statements from the interviews with him and the more than twelve witnesses that corroborated them. Sounds like McCulloch is making sure they have everything.

My problem is that is not his first hand account. It is a repeated story told by others as to what he said. I want to hear his statement. And I know it will be awhile for that. At this point, I am not in either camp and hanging on the fence.

 

[Lovejac]

After 30 minutes on twitter using #ferguson, I've come to the conclusion that when/if GJ doesn't issue a true bill, the ***** is going to hit the fan.

I'm seriously scared for the innocent people in Ferguson.

In 30 minutes I've read about how LE erased the part of the store tape that shows MB paying for the cigars, people claiming Chief Jackson is resigning this week, people telling other people not to shop at any businesses that are not black owned, and Sen Maria Chappelle Nadal retweeting about 'cracker cops'.

This situation feels truly hopeless

 

[Klood-N]

My problem is that is not his first hand account. It is a repeated story told by others as to what he said. I want to hear his statement. And I know it will be awhile for that. At this point, I am not in either camp and hanging on the fence.

Well, fall off already, you'll get splinters hanging up there, haha.

To me, with Chief Belmar disclosing the results of the preliminary investigation, and one investigative source confirming Josie's account as matching, and another source close to top brass relaying similar events, I think it's pretty close. His probably contains more detail, so it will be interesting to see.

ETA since I mentioned it:
Without revealing what led to the dispute, Belmar said the preliminary investigation showed that the Ferguson officer tried to exit his vehicle, but Brown pushed him back into the car, "where he physically assaulted the police officer" and struggled over the officer's weapon, Belmar said.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/

 

[human]

Article worth revisiting: "Why Did the MB Shooting Happen Here" [Canfield Green area]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_678334ce-500a-5689-8658-f548207cf253.html

"It’s a cluster of densely populated complexes that stand apart from the predominantly single-family streets of Ferguson. On a map, the area sticks out like an appendage, one that was added to Ferguson by annexation. Many of the children who live there aren’t even part of the Ferguson-Florissant school system. Adding to that isolation, police have blocked off nearly all access roads to the apartments with concrete barriers, fences and gate."

This totally goes together with that article.

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/09/02/daily-circuit-ferguson-suburban-design?from=dc

 

[sonjay]

Maybe he was just impulsive, ignorant as to the consequences and emboldened?

Or maybe MB and/or other people in Ferguson have been blowing off and ignoring the cops so much for so long that he really thought the cop wouldn't dare to shoot him.

 

[human]

After 30 minutes on twitter using #ferguson, I've come to the conclusion that when/if GJ doesn't issue a true bill, the ***** is going to hit the fan.

I'm seriously scared for the innocent people in Ferguson.

In 30 minutes I've read about how LE erased the part of the store tape that shows MB paying for the cigars, people claiming Chief Jackson is resigning this week, people telling other people not to shop at any businesses that are not black owned, and Sen Maria Chappelle Nadal retweeting about 'cracker cops'.

This situation feels truly hopeless

Probably hopeless if you are a person of color in Ferguson. For the rest of us, life will go on. People have been living in Watts since that riot.

They continue to live in LA with the Crips and the Bloods.

Pine Ridge will continue to be the poorest place in the US.

Americans will continue to demand vast quantities of meth, cocaine, marijuana, heroin and who knows what other new drugs will be the newest craze .

The person who burgled my house was a white female who wanted prescription drugs. Even though I am retired, I don't have any drugs. So, maybe that word will spread. Nothing of any interest to steal either.

 

[Klood-N]

Sorry you were burgled! There are so many reasons not to minimize crimes, especially considering there are victims.

I wonder if that store clerk has been able to return to work. And all the employees of looted and destroyed businesses. Jobs are precious everywhere these days.

Which makes me think: I bet the clerk's statement and/or testimony is in front of the GJ too.

 

[human]

I am not big on crime. What I saw when I was a teacher reading about people I knew in the court section was that some people (white and poor) , continued to do more and more crime and nothing would happen. It was a mystery to me.

One year I was at a home meeting with a boyfriend of the mother of a student.

LE from another state came knocking at the door. The bf asked if LE could come back in a little while because he was meeting with the teacher. No problem.

I read in the paper he was arrested in the biggest drug bust in a multiple state area.

Interesting times when i was a teacher.

 

[sonjay]

In my city which is very white, there have been several incidences with white officers beating people of color. One was documented on video at the detox center. The LE beat a drunken person of color who was in a wheelchair. The video is always on in the detox center.

Another one was where several LE beat a person of color who was so drunk that he could not stand up right in front of some stores. He died in the hospital.

So LE does strange things as well.

So, from that, are we to conclude that DW must be guilty? Or... what? I'm trying to understand what police behavior in your city has to do with the Michael Brown case.

 

[bwt42]

I am curious what everyone's thoughts are on the following comment.

"Do you know why we profile? Because it works."

My wife & I were stopped by two (in a car) Chicago police officers. We had made a wrong turn leaving a convention center & were basically lost. The officers stopped us & asked us what we were doing there. After explaining, they escorted us to the expressway. I'm pretty sure we were profiled because of our race & I'm glad they did.

 

[Oceans]

Sorry you were burgled! There are so many reasons not to minimize crimes, especially considering there are victims.

I wonder if that store clerk has been able to return to work. And all the employees of looted and destroyed businesses. Jobs are precious everywhere these days.

Which makes me think: I bet the clerk's statement and/or testimony is in front of the GJ too.

I'm not sure but I think I read that the owner of the store is closing it for good. He had been looted, I believe twice.

I could imagine that he has to face threats and more looting if things don't go as some expect. JMO.

 

[Klood-N]

Wow! Have you guys seen this? Just found it. This video provides a lot of info. So the family knows why Michael was in the street so long!

Medical transporter explains why Michael Brown’s body laid on the ground for hours
It was unsafe, we feared for our lives

http://fox2now.com/2014/09/08/medic...el-browns-body-lay-on-the-ground-for-4-hours/

More timeline info too in case there's one here somewhere.

 

[sonjay]

After 30 minutes on twitter using #ferguson, I've come to the conclusion that when/if GJ doesn't issue a true bill, the ***** is going to hit the fan.

I'm seriously scared for the innocent people in Ferguson.

In 30 minutes I've read about how LE erased the part of the store tape that shows MB paying for the cigars, people claiming Chief Jackson is resigning this week, people telling other people not to shop at any businesses that are not black owned, and Sen Maria Chappelle Nadal retweeting about 'cracker cops'.

IMO, they won't be happy until OW is dead.

 

[hambirg]

Nothing MB was doing that morning made much sense. He was acting in a very illogical way. After stealing the cigarillos and assaulting the store owner, one would think he would walk home quietly, to escape notice.

Why was he walking down the center of the road, holding stolen merchandise? And they saw the cop car approaching from quite a distance. Why did they stay in the middle of the road, after committing a felony moments earlier?

And why did they refuse the request by OW to step to the sidewalk? He must have WANTED a confrontation. He was holding the stolen cigarillos, blocking traffic and refusing to step out of the middle of the road. Totally bizarre behavior, imo.

He was not thinking straight.

You ask why he would put himself in front of a load gun. I can ask the same type of question about OW.

Why would he roll up on 2 teens, in broad daylight, visible to dozens of <modsnip> balconies, with an audience of people who dislike LE, and then just attack this kid, grab him by the neck, unprovoked, try to pull him into the car thru the window,and threaten to shoot him, then pull a weapon? WHY would an officer do that?

I agree. I see shades of Maurice Clemmons. Clemmons had assaulted a LEO before going on to kill the four Lakewood police officers sitting in the coffee shop. He had some bizarre behavior leading up to that. . .spoke of visions, thought he was Jesus Christ and the world was going to end. Ugh!

There is an interesting video here about that incident. I think listening to Officer Kelly ( the LEO who eventually killed Clemmons) gives a good idea of what these officers deal with and their thoughts.
http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/2977043-Remembering-the-Lakewood-Four/

 

[Klood-N]

IMO, they won't be happy until OW is dead.

You could be right.

Yamichi Alcindor, a reporter with USA Today, went to the address for Willman released by Anonymous, but he no longer lived there. Instead, she found Kathie Warnack, an ex-girlfriend of Willman&#8217;s father, on the front porch, weeping. &#8220;I guess I&#8217;m going to have to sleep with my gun and put cameras on the house,&#8221; the woman said. &#8220;Now I have to defend myself, and I didn&#8217;t do anything wrong.&#8221;

Willman checked his social-media accounts&#8211;Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter&#8211;which were being flooded with hundreds of death threats. One read, &#8220;If we saw you walking in the streets, we&#8217;re going to prison rape you and then pop a cap in the back of your dome.&#8221; He shut down his accounts. The department suggested he go into lockdown.

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/anonymous-got-wrong-ferguson