MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

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  • #421
I'm also glad they profile sportscars, especially driven by young men. Including white, affluent ones. I say this as a mother of one, who was cited three times as soon as he got his car. (Missing front license plate, going 11 mph over on the interstate, and not using a turn signal in a parking lot.)

We told him tough kitties, good lessons, and made him read and handle every ticket and fine on his own, which he had to do while working and going school.

He's safer and a better citizen because of all those experiences. IMO



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Wow, amazing he could afford a nice sports car and the high insurance cost on only a PT salary all by himself! That is almost impossible to do these days, he must have saved for many years!
Just curious- was his car or person searched at all of these stops?
 
  • #422
They literally want a get-out-of-jail-free card. :gaah:

If enforcing the laws is mean, then repeal the laws. No laws against speeding, none requiring a driver license or insurance, no laws against ..... well, let's see, shoplifting is a non-violent offense. So is burglary. So is drunk driving. I guess all those laws should be tossed out, too.

Link to where people are saying this, please! Thanks.
 
  • #423
  • #424
County investigation: Michael Brown was shot from the front, had marijuana in his system
In addition, Brown had marijuana in his system when he was shot and killed by a police officer on Aug. 9 in Ferguson
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...t-from-the-front-had-marijuana-in-his-system/

Thanks for the link. I couldn't remember where marijuana had been brought up, much less talked about like it's confirmed. Suppose it's half way confirmed at this point.

Anonymous sources = Rumor

Might end up being accurate and wouldn't be surprised but won't know until it's released to the public. I think it's safe to say the autopsy has been completed and it will be presented to the GJ with whatever it contains.
 
  • #425
Thanks for the link. I couldn't remember where marijuana had been brought up, much less talked about like it's confirmed. Suppose it's half way confirmed at this point.

Anonymous sources = Rumor

Might end up being accurate and wouldn't be surprised but won't know until it's released to the public. I think it's safe to say the autopsy has been completed and it will be presented to the GJ with whatever it contains.

Yep rumours. And we all already know he was shot from the front- what no one has confirmed is that he wasn't shot at while fleeing. So far, none of this is confirmed. MOO.
 
  • #426
Page 2. Name redacted, business. Willing to prosecute.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I missed it because there was no name redacted which is what I was looking to find.

I find the report odd in that it does not have witness information like name, address, and phone numbers other than a ss# and the business address. Also the fact that DJ's address and information are not redacted. Is that normal to have the address of a suspect not redacted? In the police reports I have read that information is redacted if my memory is correct.
 
  • #427
Sounds confirmed to me. I think info from MSM is considered fact here, although you're free to decide to discount all anonymous sources, I imagine. I don't.
 
  • #428
Yep rumours. And we all already know he was shot from the front- what no one has confirmed is that he wasn't shot at while fleeing. So far, none of this is confirmed. MOO.

Agreed. In reality, we know so very little. To be quite honest, I even want to see close up videos of DW. His lack of an apparent injury and his lack of favoring it or touching it in that one video, along with the other officer not looking at the injury once strikes me as odd but that video is from so far away. Surely, someone out there got a closer picture/video of DW to show an apparent injury. Redness. Swelling. Blood. Bruising. Something.
 
  • #429
  • #430
Sounds confirmed to me. I think info from MSM is considered fact here, although you're free to decide to discount all anonymous sources, I imagine. I don't.

I didn't say I discount them. I take them for what they are. Anonymous sources. I believe it was a mod even that suggested that anonymous sources are akin to rumors. Could be wrong. Regardless, wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true, but won't be shocked if it isn't at this point. Put it this way...I've spoken to an officer who says MB's fingerprints are on DW's gun. I know for y'all it's not MSM but I'm talking about how I categorize such information for myself. I make a mental note of the marijuana and the fingerprints as a real possibility but recognize at the same time that it might not be accurate until there is an official statement to the same effect.
 
  • #431
Link to where people are saying this, please! Thanks.

The op-ed piece about the issues that Ferguson residents have problems with are what they call profiled police stops where a greater percentage of blacks are stopped and then cited for lack of registration, lack of insurance, outstanding warrants etc. We were discussing it yesterday. Will try to find the link. The piece suggested that inordinate number of black citizens were pulled over for traffic stops as opposed to white ones and that the stops were simply a way to further penalize and already overburdened poor population and make their already more difficult lives more difficult.

I will go back to that discussion and find the link.


Missouri's judicial system, especially that of the municipalities of St. Louis county, has come under even more intense scrutiny since the Brown killing. St. Louis County is home to a criminal justice system that routinely issues warrants and sometimes jails people for their failure to pay off minor infractions and traffic violations, which are issued excessively in order to raise budget funds according to many familiar with the system. Black people are disproportionately targeted for these stops and disproportionately searched, according to a recently released white paper by a local legal nonprofit group.

In one noteworthy example, Ray Downs, a journalist with the Riverfront Times, found that in 2013, Pine Lawn, a town that is 96 percent black and has a per capita income of $13,000, collected $1.7 million in fines from such stops. The population of Pine Lawn is just over 3,000 people.

Downs also found that Chesterfield, an affluent white suburb with a population of 47,000 and an average per capita income of $50,000, collected just $1.2 million in fines.

The white paper also found that in the state of Missouri, blacks "are pulled over at a rate 63 percent greater rate than expected based solely on their population 16 and older."

The ArchCity Defenders' white paper
In Ferguson, for example, the town is 67 percent black, and 86 percent of traffic stops involve black drivers. They in turn are almost twice as likely to get searched and twice as likely to get arrested. Oddly, as the paper points out, "searches of black individuals result in the discovery of contraband only 21.7 percent of the time, while similar searches of whites produce contraband 34 percent of the time."

SNIP

In the year prior to Brown's killing, Harvey and his coworkers researched the courts system in the county and focused on three municipalities, of which Ferguson was one. In the subsequent white paper, they found that "by disproportionately stopping, charging and fining the poor minorities… and by incarcerating people for the failure to pay fines, these policies unintentionally push the poor further into poverty."

The paper describes the criminal justice system employed as a "product of a discorded, fragmented, and inefficient approach to a criminal justice in St. Louis county."

In the wake of the Brown killing, the ArchCity Defenders, along with the St. Louis University Legal Clinic, wrote an open letter asking for a general amnesty for outstanding fines and warrants in Ferguson. The letter notes that the municipality of Ferguson has more warrants issued than it has residents.

It also states, "For many young people, these warrants act as a barrier to employment and housing. Just as importantly, the psychological trauma of spending each day subject to arrest and incarceration is debilitating."



https://news.vice.com/article/things-in-ferguson-are-going-to-change-for-real

ETA I am not a minority but I am poor. These laws and rules of vehicle ownership are cumbersome and difficult for me to observe. And yet I do it. Because by virtue of being poor I do not get special treatment nor should I. I am suggesting that if an inordinate percentage of minority poor are being stopped it is because their registrations are out of date, as mine was recently and that stop cost me money I could ill afford, nor could I take time off from work to go to court and address it and have the fine removed because I had by then made the registration current. So I paid my fine waived my right to trial all online and moved on with my life, a bit poorer this month for it, but it was my duty as a citizen to make it right and observe the laws which apply to all, not just the rich or the white or the whatever. It applies to all of us, white black rich poor. And thast is how I believe it should be.
 
  • #432
Thanks for getting it started. Do we, in fact, have the toxicology already? I missed it if so and would love to read it to see what else might have been in his system.

As for things we currently have:

Robbery video
Clerk's testimony
Autopsy
Case Testimony
LE statement that DW injuried
DW's testimony possibly
DJ's testimony
Mitchell's testimony
Crenshaw's testimony
2 workers' testimony
Brady's testimony
May or may not have the black canseco witness (not sure if he's ever been identified)

What else am I missing?

Tox is presumably in but I don't think we've heard that for sure. Countless videos at the scene afterwards.

Thanks. Credit goes to Footwarrior who was so kind to start it. I just added to it.

As far as I know, toxicology reports have not been released to the public. Only Dr. Baden's comments about the marijuana. I posted it earlier today.
 
  • #433
  • #434
Isn't this redundant? Or am I missing something? :thinking:

I think he/she was providing that for me because I couldn't remember where the talk of marijuana in MB's system came from as if fact. Nothing new.
 
  • #435
Some people do not have an option of paying by mail. No checks. No cc.

I guess I am unlucky. I have gotten speeding tickets a couple of times. One time I was doing it on purpose as I was in a strange city and wanted to get home before dark.

The other times I did not realize I was going as fast as I was. But I live in a very hilly city so the car speeds up if you don't keep close tabs on your speed.

I have received parking tickets for parking in areas that I did not realize were issues.

I have no small children. I can only imagine the stress people with no money, small children, crappy car, childcare issues, transportation issues, and on and on and on of life that is not easy.

One doesn't require a checking account or credit card to pay through the mail. Those convenience store they have in every neighborhood sell cashiers checks or money orders and you give them cash for that service. Unless ALL the stores have been burnt down or something dumb like that. There's really NO excuse not to pay your own way. Cut corners in other areas until you've paid your fine.
 
  • #436
Could be fingerprints or other evidence. That evidence will go to GJ too, sounds like.

The source claims that there is "solid proof" that there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman’s firearm

Edward Magee, spokesman for St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCullough, said the office will not disclose the nature of the evidence it will reveal to a grand jury.

"We'll present every piece of evidence we have, witness statements, et cetera, to the grand jury, and we do not release any evidence or talk about evidence on the case."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/
 
  • #437
Some people do not have an option of paying by mail. No checks. No cc.

I guess I am unlucky. I have gotten speeding tickets a couple of times. One time I was doing it on purpose as I was in a strange city and wanted to get home before dark.

The other times I did not realize I was going as fast as I was. But I live in a very hilly city so the car speeds up if you don't keep close tabs on your speed.

I have received parking tickets for parking in areas that I did not realize were issues.

I have no small children. I can only imagine the stress people with no money, small children, crappy car, childcare issues, transportation issues, and on and on and on of life that is not easy.

You don't need a check to pay by mail. You can get a cashiers check. And you can pay online by going to the library. Sure it is stressful. But we need to register our cars, have valid drivers licenses and be insured. Society needs that. It is not a civil rights issue , imo.
 
  • #438
I highly resent that fact that people think basic traffic and vehicle registration laws should not be applied to them because of financial hardship. I struggle to pay my annual registration and keep the required insurance covered on my hoopty. It is a burden and it is difficult. I am the working poor. and yet I do it. Why? Because my car is necessary in getting my kids to school and back and to my J O B between.

No vehicle, no private school for teen daughter, no job, no money, and right onto the public aid dole I go. Sometimes it is very discouraging to see carts full of expensive food items leaving the store, paid for by SNAP and then being loaded into a brand spanking new model cadillac escalade with gold rims and an expensive aftermarket stereo system blaring. It causes me to feel great resentment. So I think its unreasonable to expect that poor people should get a bye on such basic rules of vehicle ownership and maintaining their street legality.

Maybe so many more blacks in the area are pulled over because more of them let their sticker/registrations lapse. Keep that chit current as the laws require and there will be no pull over to which added charges of driving without license, marijuana in the vehicle, lack of basic minimum required insurance coverage and previously issued warrants won't come to light. It's common dang sense and as a member of the working poor who has a really tough time keeping those things current for my own vehicle, but still somehow manages I don't feel any sympathy with those who simply opt not to because their priorities are different and out of skew IMO.

The idea of I am poor and so therefore I shouldn't have to follow the same rules BS does not fly with me a member of the "poor".

When you see flagrant violations, you can make a report to your state's welfare fraud division.

When you see something like that, there is something going on.

Here is a fine example that is recent
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/yacht-couple-charged-with-welfare-fraud-arrested-in-fla/
 
  • #439
Swisher Sweets is what he cigarellos appear to have been. They are more slender that your average cigar and used widely as you describe as a means of smoking pot. The paper is opened the tobacco removed and replaced with pot, then re rolled to resemble an average non tampered with cigarillo

This is bay far the preferred method for smoking weed via blunts in my hood.

To me, in the store incident, it appears it was a handful of this variety of swisher sweets.

I have to admit, I don't smoke cigars or cigarillos or pot! :D

Anyway, I thought those were cigars are it was mentioned in the police report, priced at approx. $50.

I googled Sisher Sweets and found out that there are cigars and cigarillos under that brandname. There are boxes at approx. that price, it seems the difference is the quantity: cigars seem to be more expensive than cigarillos. Here is a link for those interested:

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/cigars/12524/swisher-sweets/
 
  • #440
Agreed. In reality, we know so very little. To be quite honest, I even want to see close up videos of DW. His lack of an apparent injury and his lack of favoring it or touching it in that one video, along with the other officer not looking at the injury once strikes me as odd but that video is from so far away. Surely, someone out there got a closer picture/video of DW to show an apparent injury. Redness. Swelling. Blood. Bruising. Something.

Those type of injuries don't typically show up until an hour or so later. It takes awhile for bruising to appear. Swelling may take a bit of time too. And he probably felt little pain due to the shock.

I was hit in the eye and face during a pinata incident---:doh:----and it didn't start swelling for over an hour. Bruising took several hours.
 
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