MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[katydid23]

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I missed it because there was no name redacted which is what I was looking to find.

I find the report odd in that it does not have witness information like name, address, and phone numbers other than a ss# and the business address. Also the fact that DJ's address and information are not redacted. Is that normal to have the address of a suspect not redacted? In the police reports I have read that information is redacted if my memory is correct.

They rarely put the name of the person who is making the complaint because no one wants to be labeled a snitch. The police have the info but they dont always put it on the reports.

If this came from an FOIA then MB's name would not be redacted.

 

[tlcya]

Isn't this redundant? Or am I missing something? :thinking:

Weed stays in your system I think up to a month or more, but more exacting testing can tell if it is recent intake or residual from prior use. In other words they can tell it is in your system from prior use two weeks ago or from today or chronic daily long term use. It all have to do with levels etc.

Don't ask me how I know such things as we won't go into past history or experience with such products. :angel:

To me the marijuana in system is not a big factor unless it was "wet" or some other amplified or chemically enhanced variety which is more prone to cause violent and impulsive dangerous behaviors than your average straight up MJ.

 

[katydid23]

Yep rumours. And we all already know he was shot from the front- what no one has confirmed is that he wasn't shot at while fleeing. So far, none of this is confirmed. MOO.

But even if he was shot at while fleeing, it would still be a legal and justified shooting. An officer has the right and the responsibility to use lethal force to stop a fleeing felon if there is a danger to the community or himself.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I highly resent that fact that people think basic traffic and vehicle registration laws should not be applied to them because of financial hardship. I struggle to pay my annual registration and keep the required insurance covered on my hoopty. It is a burden and it is difficult. I am the working poor. and yet I do it. Why? Because my car is necessary in getting my kids to school and back and to my J O B between.

No vehicle, no private school for teen daughter, no job, no money, and right onto the public aid dole I go. Sometimes it is very discouraging to see carts full of expensive food items leaving the store, paid for by SNAP and then being loaded into a brand spanking new model cadillac escalade with gold rims and an expensive aftermarket stereo system blaring. It causes me to feel great resentment. So I think its unreasonable to expect that poor people should get a bye on such basic rules of vehicle ownership and maintaining their street legality.

Maybe so many more blacks in the area are pulled over because more of them let their sticker/registrations lapse. Keep that chit current as the laws require and there will be no pull over to which added charges of driving without license, marijuana in the vehicle, lack of basic minimum required insurance coverage and previously issued warrants won't come to light. It's common dang sense and as a member of the working poor who has a really tough time keeping those things current for my own vehicle, but still somehow manages I don't feel any sympathy with those who simply opt not to because their priorities are different and out of skew IMO.

The idea of I am poor and so therefore I shouldn't have to follow the same rules BS does not fly with me a member of the "poor".

I really have never understood why they are wanting all fines dropped as if they never happened. If this is approved then does that mean everyone in the nation will also have theirs forgiven?

I cant understand why anyone would want to drive on an expired license or no license and no insurance but then, I am a stickler for abiding by the law with no exceptions. Isn't that why our rates in the USA are so high now as it is? Like in everything else others have to pay for those who do not? And so many of them seem to just not show up for court and then wonder why the Judge issues a bench warrant. I thought everyone knew if they had a court date they must appear. It boggles my mind that someone can be so bold as to not show up for a court matter. I would be scared to death they would come to my home and arrest me because I know a bench warrant would be issued if I did such a crazy thing.

This absolutely makes no sense to me and even wanting this done is so strange. To be fair they would have to then forgive every ticket issued in the entire country no matter what race they are. That would probably cause many cities to go bankrupt.

What happened to personal responsibility and accountability???? We have four vehicles and we darn sure have to have full coverage on them. We also know to drive we must have a proper license at all times. While my husband and I have had perfect safe driving records for decades and the only ticket I ever got was in1981 for running a caution light, we are still very aware if we get a ticket of any kind, we are responsible legally and it must be paid.

And some of these tickets are for not wearing a seat belt yet they know if LE spots them they will be ticketed just like anyone else is so why don't they just buckle up like the law requires? I just don't get it. And many of them have babies and young children in the car with them. Don't they care about their children's safety? And if they are poor it seems to me they would be more careful and safe while driving so they wouldn't have to payout money they say they don't have. All they have to have by law is liability if they don't want full coverage on their own vehicle, unless it is has a lien on it, and liability coverage is very cheap. Another thing if they do have their vehicle financed how are they getting away with not having insurance on their vehicle? That certainly wouldn't happen where I live.

Here if you don't carry insurance on your vehicle you cant get a tag each year and you can lose your license. This is not only to protect the driver of vehicle but the bank that has lent them the money for the vehicle and it protects others who may be hit by the person's vehicle if only liability is required.

I am sorry, but this seems like just another 'gimme' entitlement demand from one group, for one group alone, and that is flat out wrong to do such a thing no matter who it is.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2811144/

http://psychcentral.com/lib/cannabis-may-cause-schizophrenia-like-brain-changes/00012781

http://m.livescience.com/17707-marijuana-thc-brain-psychosis.html



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Oceans]

You could be right.

Yamichi Alcindor, a reporter with USA Today, went to the address for Willman released by Anonymous, but he no longer lived there. Instead, she found Kathie Warnack, an ex-girlfriend of Willman’s father, on the front porch, weeping. “I guess I’m going to have to sleep with my gun and put cameras on the house,” the woman said. “Now I have to defend myself, and I didn’t do anything wrong.”

Willman checked his social-media accounts–Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter–which were being flooded with hundreds of death threats. One read, “If we saw you walking in the streets, we’re going to prison rape you and then pop a cap in the back of your dome.” He shut down his accounts. The department suggested he go into lockdown.

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/anonymous-got-wrong-ferguson

That's quite scary!

IMO, a LOT of this could have been prevented if the media would have countered immediately that "a young man (MB, 18 years old) was shot by a police officer after assaulting him, trying to take his gun and trying to attack/bum rush him again after MB had committed a strong-armed robbery just minutes ago".

All those things were known from the start! It would have put this whole situation into perspective why MB was shot by ODW.

Instead of the catchy headline: Two black boys walk down the street and one unarmed black boy was 'murdered/executed/slaughtered - shot in the back - in broad daylight.

Those are two VERY different accounts of what happened that day. Why not put the truth out right away? Instead of letting things get so out of hand by the catchy headline, especially, as so many people seem to NOT follow up on the case to find out what really happened. But keep going on and on with that initial "story".

JMO.

ETA: This post is not directed at you, Klood-N, just some thoughts in general.

 

[human]

You don't need a check to pay by mail. You can get a cashiers check. And you can pay online by going to the library. Sure it is stressful. But we need to register our cars, have valid drivers licenses and be insured. Society needs that. It is not a civil rights issue , imo.

I think most of us on here probably are not in poverty as we have computer access and the time to be on here instead of working.

It is a nightmare. If anyone thinks it would be a better deal because of all of the freebies, poverty is easy. Give away everything, I think you can have a car of under a couple of thousand dollars in value.

You will have to work or be looking for a job. Or you can attend a six week program of some sort.

Then with your minimum wage job and usually two because they will not be full time and may be in different parts of a city, you can buy used furniture, mattresses , underwear, soap, go to the laundromat somehow, go to the grocery store somehow if your car is still running, deodorant, feminine products, toothpaste, etc etc etc.

Have fun!

I am not interested.

 

[Lovejac]

You could be right.

Yamichi Alcindor, a reporter with USA Today, went to the address for Willman released by Anonymous, but he no longer lived there. Instead, she found Kathie Warnack, an ex-girlfriend of Willman’s father, on the front porch, weeping. “I guess I’m going to have to sleep with my gun and put cameras on the house,” the woman said. “Now I have to defend myself, and I didn’t do anything wrong.”

Willman checked his social-media accounts–Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter–which were being flooded with hundreds of death threats. One read, “If we saw you walking in the streets, we’re going to prison rape you and then pop a cap in the back of your dome.” He shut down his accounts. The department suggested he go into lockdown.

http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/anonymous-got-wrong-ferguson

:thud: I had no idea this had even happened That poor guy! Is there not any way they can track down who posted that wrong information?

 

[katydid23]

In my city which is very white, there have been several incidences with white officers beating people of color. One was documented on video at the detox center. The LE beat a drunken person of color who was in a wheelchair. The video is always on in the detox center.

Another one was where several LE beat a person of color who was so drunk that he could not stand up right in front of some stores. He died in the hospital.

So LE does strange things as well.

Of course they do strange things as well. But in the MB case, we have video evidence of MB acting aggressively, violently and bizarrely, in the moments before the incident.

And we have no evidence of OW acting in that fashion. I am sure the family of the sick child and the eMT would have come forward if OW had been acting aggressive and Bizarre.

So when those two had their confrontation, ONE OF THEM was the aggressor and started the physical fight. I think the evidence clearly shows which one was the aggressor. jmo

 

[Lovejac]

Given this new information from the transporter and how rioters didn't seem concerned about being shot when they shot police cars and threw Molotov cocktails, bottles, and rocks at police, maybe.

(Shout out to everyone here who stayed up those nights to document what was really happening. Popsicle deserves a medal.)

We tried to give Pops a raise, but it wasn't in the budget. So this is how we pay Pops :loveyou: :blowkiss:

 

[tlcya]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/08/doesnt-matter-if-michael-brown-smoked-weed.html
Sorry forgot to add link

friends and neighbors confirm MB smoked marijuana, and like may of his peers snuck the occasional beer.

So whether the tox screen anon leak is correct or not I take his friends word on that fact that MB was a smoker of weed. Again, I truly do not see that substance as a factor on the day of the shooting unless it was altered weed with chemical additives which can make people behave in an unstable manner.

 

[Klood-N]

Actually, even unaltered weed can have harmful effects on teens and their mental well-being, particularly if used regularly. See Linda's post, and I'll bring more links later.

 

[Lovejac]

Just saw this on my FB. Dropping in and posting to ask the great minds here if I'm crazy or mean for just :facepalm:

IMO, there seems to be a pervasive line of thought that enforcing laws is mean and that non-violent offenses don't cause other people harm or loss of $

I don't think it is ever healthy to teach kids or adults that weak excuses are a ticket out of personal responsibility. If anything, it perpetuates low expectations and self esteem. IMO

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/da...ant_amnesty_for_nonviolent_bench_warrants.php

(Would this be in addition to a yearly amnesty already in place? I'm confused.)



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You have got to be kidding me!

This is not Monopoly. This is real life. Perhaps the people with warrants should stop breaking the law.

 

[Klood-N]

It seems like from Michael's social media and lyrics, he wanted it known that he smoked weed, or at least didn't hide it.

 

[Truthy]

The op-ed piece about the issues that Ferguson residents have problems with are what they call profiled police stops where a greater percentage of blacks are stopped and then cited for lack of registration, lack of insurance, outstanding warrants etc. We were discussing it yesterday. Will try to find the link. The piece suggested that inordinate number of black citizens were pulled over for traffic stops as opposed to white ones and that the stops were simply a way to further penalize and already overburdened poor population and make their already more difficult lives more difficult.

I will go back to that discussion and find the link.


Missouri's judicial system, especially that of the municipalities of St. Louis county, has come under even more intense scrutiny since the Brown killing. St. Louis County is home to a criminal justice system that routinely issues warrants and sometimes jails people for their failure to pay off minor infractions and traffic violations, which are issued excessively in order to raise budget funds according to many familiar with the system. Black people are disproportionately targeted for these stops and disproportionately searched, according to a recently released white paper by a local legal nonprofit group.

In one noteworthy example, Ray Downs, a journalist with the Riverfront Times, found that in 2013, Pine Lawn, a town that is 96 percent black and has a per capita income of $13,000, collected $1.7 million in fines from such stops. The population of Pine Lawn is just over 3,000 people.

Downs also found that Chesterfield, an affluent white suburb with a population of 47,000 and an average per capita income of $50,000, collected just $1.2 million in fines.

The white paper also found that in the state of Missouri, blacks "are pulled over at a rate 63 percent greater rate than expected based solely on their population 16 and older."

The ArchCity Defenders' white paper
In Ferguson, for example, the town is 67 percent black, and 86 percent of traffic stops involve black drivers. They in turn are almost twice as likely to get searched and twice as likely to get arrested. Oddly, as the paper points out, "searches of black individuals result in the discovery of contraband only 21.7 percent of the time, while similar searches of whites produce contraband 34 percent of the time."

SNIP

In the year prior to Brown's killing, Harvey and his coworkers researched the courts system in the county and focused on three municipalities, of which Ferguson was one. In the subsequent white paper, they found that "by disproportionately stopping, charging and fining the poor minorities… and by incarcerating people for the failure to pay fines, these policies unintentionally push the poor further into poverty."

The paper describes the criminal justice system employed as a "product of a discorded, fragmented, and inefficient approach to a criminal justice in St. Louis county."

In the wake of the Brown killing, the ArchCity Defenders, along with the St. Louis University Legal Clinic, wrote an open letter asking for a general amnesty for outstanding fines and warrants in Ferguson. The letter notes that the municipality of Ferguson has more warrants issued than it has residents.

It also states, "For many young people, these warrants act as a barrier to employment and housing. Just as importantly, the psychological trauma of spending each day subject to arrest and incarceration is debilitating."


https://news.vice.com/article/things-in-ferguson-are-going-to-change-for-real

ETA I am not a minority but I am poor. These laws and rules of vehicle ownership are cumbersome and difficult for me to observe. And yet I do it. Because by virtue of being poor I do not get special treatment nor should I. I am suggesting that if an inordinate percentage of minority poor are being stopped it is because their registrations are out of date, as mine was recently and that stop cost me money I could ill afford, nor could I take time off from work to go to court and address it and have the fine removed because I had by then made the registration current. So I paid my fine waived my right to trial all online and moved on with my life, a bit poorer this month for it, but it was my duty as a citizen to make it right and observe the laws which apply to all, not just the rich or the white or the whatever. It applies to all of us, white black rich poor. And thast is how I believe it should be.

Interesting about them targeting poor blacks. Where I am they ignore lots of moving violations and bad parkers till they set up traps and try to get a whole lot at once. It is so obvious they are filling quotas and that is illegal.
It is also obvious they ignore the same people over and over again for parking illegally, while the rest of us who aren't connected pay for their sins.
I know a half dozen cars and their illegal parking spots by heart, and if I park there an hour, I'll get a ticket, but they never do. God help me if I reported that to the police though! Now that I think about- amnesty would be fair if it was revealed they have been looking the other way for "friends" all this time. Why wouldn't it be? What else can we do about low level corruption like this?

 

[DebinGA]

http://fox2now.com/2014/07/23/traffic-warrant-ticket-amnesty-program-promises-clean-records/

"The annual Better Family Life “St. Louis Metropolitan Area Amnesty Project” is scheduled for early August. Three sessions, one at each of the three St. Louis Community College campuses, will give thousands a chance to get a voucher they can take to city, municipal or county courts in St. Louis City, St. Louis County and St. Charles County. James Clark of Better Family Life says the program gives people a “non-threatening way to re-engage the courts without the fear of being arrested and having to post bond. Clark points to past success stories from previous years. “We have individuals who are now able to become gainfully employed,” Clark explained because they cleared up small infractions of the law. The vouchers cost $10 for processing. Offenders will need to take the voucher and one hundred dollars bond to the court to secure a new court date. Frequently the one hundred dollars will cover the fines and court costs for numerous violations."

 

[Lovejac]

Hm. Affluenza, do you mean?

So poverty striken people can suffer from Affluenza, too?

Who knew.

 

[DebinGA]

It seems like from Michael's social media and lyrics, he wanted it known that he smoked weed, or at least didn't hide it.

One of his "raps" claimed he started weed at 9 yo. Doesn't mean he actually did, but indicates he thought saying so would appeal to his "audience".

 

[Oceans]

:thud: I had no idea this had even happened That poor guy! Is there not any way they can track down who posted that wrong information?

I'm sure they can. Maybe this person got already a "visit" by LE/FBI. JMO.

 

[Footwarrior]

A profile is all about a difference in standards. Police rarely stop someone going 4 mph over the speed limit, but if you fit the profile you will get stopped. Police rarely search stopped cars for drugs, but if you fit the profile count on spending a extra hour standing on the side of the road while they paw through your stuff. The air freshener or graduation tassel hanging on you mirror turns into a ticket for obstructed vision ticket when you fit the profile. A burned out taillight that normally merits a polite stop to inform the driver turns into a defective vehicle ticket.