MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[MyBelle]

I wasn't discussing theoretical cases - I posted about 2 recent cases (one involving a police officer and another involving a private citizen) wherein someone was arrested prior to an indictment. Actual cases - not theoretical cases.

Personally, I have no problem with waiting for the decision of the St. Louis County Grand Jury. You won't see or hear me calling for Officer Wilson's head on a pike unless evidence shows that he acted unlawfully.

I was merely reporting the facts of due process, to wit: an indictment isn't necessary in order to arrest someone. Probable cause is all that's necessary in order to make an arrest.

Folks can decide for themselves whether or not they believe probable cause exists or whether or not they agree with the Brown family attorney. I haven't made any statement whatsoever about Mr. Gray's assertions.

I think a lot also depends on police procedure followed in that jurisdiction. In my city, all officer involved shootings are investigated by a Grand Jury. No probable cause currently exists because Officer Wilson was allowed, by law, to discharge his weapon in the line of duty. The "justified shooting" has to be first determined for an arrest. So it is a different standard.

 

[Klood-N]

It makes for great theater...which to me, is what this has become.

Except a young man died, and anther man is going through hell and made a subject for hate. There's no room for theater here. That's why I think it's important to shine a big, bold spotlight on the truth as much as we can.

 

[sorrell skye]

I have no idea why this is confusing. My post that you quoted was a response to your general information post. And, I and others were pointing out why we felt it made no sense for the family's attorney to call for an arrest now. Shrug

I'm not confused at all.

An indictment is not required to make an arrest. Probable cause is needed to make an arrest.

I was not discussing theoretical cases, as you suggested in your previous post. I was discussing actual cases and the actual law regarding probable cause, arrests, and indictments.

I choose not to get outraged over Mr. Gray's statements. He can say whatever he pleases and, unless he asserts false information or unless he breaks the law, I couldn't care less what he says. It's not as if no one in the history of the US justice system has never been arrested prior to a formal indictment.

Officer Wilson is not being denied his Fourth Amendment rights of due process. I won't be surprised if the Grand Jury doesn't indict him (if the reported facial injuries are true, if the report of the struggle over Officer Wilson's firearm is true, and if the witness accounts of MB continuing to advance upon Officer Wilson are true).

What interests me in this case is the evidence. What interests me in this case is whether or not the fatal shooting was justified, and whether or not justice will be served.

 

[Klood-N]

Lol. Sorrell, I think you were confused about the posts between us and their order. You certainly misinterpreted what I said, but there are bigger issues here, so how about we stop discussing this?

 

[Lovejac]

Yes, but "Jaywalking" just sounds so much better it's a helpful rhetorical device to push a desired perception, I doubt MB defenders will ever quit pushing it out there.

Just like "it was more of a shoplifting situation." And "typical kid stuff"... Etcetera. Etcetera...



Sent via Tapatalk for S4

Spin, Rinse, Repeat

It's all the rage

 

[MyBelle]

I'm not confused at all.

An indictment is not required to make an arrest. Probable cause is needed to make an arrest.

I was not discussing theoretical cases, as you suggested in your previous post. I was discussing actual cases and the actual law regarding probable cause, arrests, and indictments.

I choose not to get outraged over Mr. Gray's statements. He can say whatever he pleases and, unless he asserts false information or unless he breaks the law, I couldn't care less what he says. It's not as if no one in the history of the US justice system has never been arrested prior to a formal indictment.

Officer Wilson is not being denied his Fourth Amendment rights of due process. I won't be surprised if the Grand Jury doesn't indict him (if the reported facial injuries are true, if the report of the struggle over Officer Wilson's firearm is true, and if the witness accounts of MB continuing to advance upon Officer Wilson are true).

What interests me in this case is the evidence. What interests me in this case is whether or not the fatal shooting was justified, and whether or not justice will be served.

I think Officer Wilson's right to due process most certainly is being denied. Police have not named him a suspect in a crime yet inflammatory rhetoric is being lobbed to arrest him. In that regard, it is no different than the public outcry against Richard Jewell years ago. A man vilified publicly and he actually saved lives during the Olympic bombing.

Such rhetoric influences public opinion greatly and will impair Wilson's right to an impartial jury if he is indicted. There is no purpose whatsoever in the rhetoric other than inflame public opinion and fuel a lynch mob mentality. It disgusts me greatly.

JMO

 

[sorrell skye]

Lol. Sorrell, I think you were confused about the posts between us and their order. You certainly misinterpreted what I said, but there are bigger issues here, so how about we stop discussing this?

I think you & I are probably in agreement on a great many things regarding this case and surrounding this case.

I look forward to your future posts and all your wonderful links that you've collected.

 

[MyBelle]

Police need to go on strike in Ferguson.

That may not be a legal option. Air Traffic Controllers pretty much taught that lesson 30 years ago.

 

[Lovejac]

Retweeted by STL Public Radio
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Chris Hayes ‏@ChrisHayesTV 1m
StLCo Judge just denied motion to release Michael Brown's juvenile records. #Ferguson

View attachment 58482
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Are those the same juvenile records that Brown et al claimed didn't even exist?

 

[LambChop]

Handling Officer-Involved Shootings


By Drew J. Tracy, Assistant Chief, Investigative Services Bureau, Montgomery County, Maryland, Police Department

The most critical investigation in any law enforcement agency is that of an officer-involved shooting. These shootings bring media attention; citizen inquiries; liability issues; and, if handled incorrectly, irreparable damage to the agency’s reputation. The key to being successful is a prompt, thorough investigation by knowledgeable, well-respected investigators backed by forensic evidence that ultimately provides full disclosure and citizen review. This article will outline the steps necessary and the people to involve in an officer-involved shooting investigation.


http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/...=display_arch&article_id=2213&issue_id=102010

 

[popsicle]

STLtoday ‏@stltoday 4m
St. Louis-area police preparing for I-70 blockade planned for Wednesday http://bit.ly/1opQJuR

“There is a plan,” said St. Louis County Police Officer Brian Schellman. “We’re not going to discuss what the plan is, but we’re going to have a presence.”

 

[katydid23]

But does not confirm what those records may contain.

Unless MB committed violent felonies as a juvenile, the records have no bearing (to me personally) on the events of August 9.

They mean something, imo. Number one, the family said he had never had any brushes with the law. So this makes them seem less credible.

Number two, it heightens his awareness about interactions with cops and potentially being arrested. If this was not his first rodeo, then he knew he was likely to have a stiffer result.

Number three, he probably did not want to disappoint his family again, if this was possibly a pattern in his life.

Number four, it shows how bizarre and illogical his behavior was that day. He saw the cop car approaching from far away. Most teens would scatter if they were not wanting to be confronted about walking down middle of the road. Especially if they had just committed armed robbery and were holding the evidence in their hands. If he has a past record, then there is no way to explain this behavior other than he wanted to interact with the officer for some odd reason.

 

[popsicle]

Lilly A. Fowler ‏@LillyAFowler 38m
Just before #MikeBrown shooting, #Ferguson police Chief Tom Jackson signed off on request to obtain 30 M-4 rifles http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/ferguson-police-began-seeking-military-assault-rifles-days-before-michael/article_b5fc691b-71b9-5457-ba67-062304f2be43.html …

 

[popsicle]

[h=1]Ferguson City Council posed to enact sweeping changes[/h]
Other changes may include capping revenue from municipal court fines to 15% of the city’s general revenue and repealing the offense of “Failure to Appear” in court.

http://fox2now.com/2014/09/09/ferguson-city-council-posed-to-enact-sweeping-changes/

 

[DebinGA]

And thus confirms he has a juvenile record.

I bet the juvie records include a stipulation that MB stay in school or go to jail.

 

[MyBelle]

Retweeted by STL Public Radio
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Chris Hayes ‏@ChrisHayesTV 1m
StLCo Judge just denied motion to release Michael Brown's juvenile records. #Ferguson

View attachment 58482
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Thanks. So there must be juvenile records and I think they must be before the Grand Jury or in some way considered part of the open investigation. I think there is a reason found in his history that explains why Brown reacted as he did toward Officer Wilson.

JMO

 

[DebinGA]

I think Officer Wilson's right to due process most certainly is being denied. Police have not named him a suspect in a crime yet inflammatory rhetoric is being lobbed to arrest him. In that regard, it is no different than the public outcry against Richard Jewell years ago. A man vilified publicly and he actually saved lives during the Olympic bombing.

Such rhetoric influences public opinion greatly and will impair Wilson's right to an impartial jury if he is indicted. There is no purpose whatsoever in the rhetoric other than inflame public opinion and fuel a lynch mob mentality. It disgusts me greatly.

JMO

Nothing tops Eric Holder's much ballyhooed arrival in Ferguson with 50 FBI agents in tow for prejudicial effect imo. Not only did he announce the agents would be interrogating the same witnesses StLC officers had, he announced he'd ordered a third autopsy, calling into question the results of StLC Chief Med Examiner Dr. Mary Case.

 

[Linda7NJ]

STLtoday ‏@stltoday 4m
St. Louis-area police preparing for I-70 blockade planned for Wednesday http://bit.ly/1opQJuR

“There is a plan,” said St. Louis County Police Officer Brian Schellman. “We’re not going to discuss what the plan is, but we’re going to have a presence.”

Their action should be to prevent it, and makes arrests.
It's stupid and dangerous IMO


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[ATasteOfHoney]

And to all of those that have committed the recent & violent retribution for MB upon innocent people....all I have to say is you have blood on your hands. Nice fables & fairy tales of hatred get you the horrific results you wanted yet?

Terribly sad....(re:"Hubble House")....

 

[hambirg]

[h=1]Ferguson City Council posed to enact sweeping changes[/h]
Other changes may include capping revenue from municipal court fines to 15% of the city’s general revenue and repealing the offense of “Failure to Appear” in court.

http://fox2now.com/2014/09/09/ferguson-city-council-posed-to-enact-sweeping-changes/

Whaaa???? :what:

How's that going to work?