MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[SilkySifaka]

I ran across an article in WaPo about officers that kill in the line of duty. Lots in insight into the aftermath of such a shooting for the cop.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ice-officers/2011/12/28/gIQAIxjS2Q_story.html

I really do feel sorry for OW. He's not only struggling with the psychological repercussions of having been forced to shoot and kill a man, but he's also facing possible criminal charges and possible federal civil right charges, and he may never be able to work as a police officer again.

we can but hope he doesn/t. I for one would rather see him in jail

 

[MyBelle]

Nothing tops Eric Holder's much ballyhooed arrival in Ferguson with 50 FBI agents in tow for prejudicial effect imo. Not only did he announce the agents would be interrogating the same witnesses StLC officers had, he announced he'd ordered a third autopsy, calling into question the results of StLC Chief Med Examiner Dr. Mary Case.

My take on the third autopsy was it was needed to protect the integrity of Dr. Case's autopsy. The Brown family publicly said they didn't trust anybody. Not the police. Not the DA. Not Dr. Case, who was NOT happy about the involvement of Parcells in the second autopsy and may have felt the second autopsy was compromised in some way. Lets not forget that it was Parcells who insisted it was possible Brown was shot with his arms up in a surrender position.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

we can but hope he doesn/t. I for one would rather see him in jail

You would rather see Officer Wilson in jail for doing what?

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by STLtoday
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Patricia Bynes ‏@Patricialicious 6m
Just 1 of the lines to get into the #Ferguson City Council meeting. http://
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https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=H...s=EtmVgQI8bjo3FOoFTHUzxYs6p-7xu1jdNf8wmtqj-mQ

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by STLtoday
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Stephen Deere ‏@stephencdeere 46m
#Ferguson City Council members arrive more than an hour early with Police escort.


Durrie Bouscaren ‏@durrieB 5m
People beginning to file in at #ferguson city council meeting, lines outside passing thru metal detectors
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxIMPCKCQAAtdxw.jpg

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[popsicle]

Josh Renaud ‏@Kirkman 29m
Tonight the #Ferguson city council meets at Greater Grace Church. Looks like there might be a livestream here: http://www.fergusoncity.com/487/Live-Streaming …

 

[katydid23]

Retweeted by STLtoday
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Patricia Bynes ‏@Patricialicious 6m
Just 1 of the lines to get into the #Ferguson City Council meeting. http://
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https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=H...s=EtmVgQI8bjo3FOoFTHUzxYs6p-7xu1jdNf8wmtqj-mQ

This is perfect. I would much rather see the locals spend their evening discussing their issues with the city council and other officials, rather than chanting Death To Wilson and marching around the streets. At least they can make some potential changes this way.

 

[katydid23]

One change expected is the formation of a citizens review board for the police department. Other changes may include capping revenue from municipal court fines to 15% of the city’s general revenue and repealing the offense of “Failure to Appear” in court.
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1.Citizen review board sounds like a good thing, potentially.

2. Capping the revenue to 15% ? What happens when it goes above that 15% cap? Do they stop giving tickets out until it goes down?

3. Repealing the offense of Failure to Appear? This bothers me a bit. How can you expect anyone to show up for their court date if there is no consequence for not doing so? I think they should keep the 'offense'--but give people more flexibility. If they arrive with children, or are a little late, let them reschedule, without penalties. Give them other ways to pay their fines, like payment plans or community service hours, or hardship exemptions.

 

[MyBelle]

One change expected is the formation of a citizens review board for the police department. Other changes may include capping revenue from municipal court fines to 15% of the city’s general revenue and repealing the offense of “Failure to Appear” in court.
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1.Citizen review board sounds like a good thing, potentially.

2. Capping the revenue to 15% ? What happens when it goes above that 15% cap? Do they stop giving tickets out until it goes down?

3. Repealing the offense of Failure to Appear? This bothers me a bit. How can you expect anyone to show up for their court date if there is no consequence for not doing so? I think they should keep the 'offense'--but give people more flexibility. If they arrive with children, or are a little late, let them reschedule, without penalties. Give them other ways to pay their fines, like payment plans or community service hours, or hardship exemptions.

Citizen review boards are pretty common in other cities. But, they'll have to find replacement revenue from somewhere or they'll have to cut city services. All this rhetoric about amnesty seems to be coming from those who don't actually pay property taxes.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Citizen review boards are pretty common in other cities. But, they'll have to find replacement revenue from somewhere or they'll have to cut city services. All this rhetoric about amnesty seems to be coming from those who don't actually pay property taxes.

JMO

Surprise! Not


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[LambChop]

In NC police take the plate right off your car. Try driving around with no plates on your car. Big red flag

 

[ontheclock]

One change expected is the formation of a citizens review board for the police department. Other changes may include capping revenue from municipal court fines to 15% of the city’s general revenue and repealing the offense of “Failure to Appear” in court.
=============================================================================================

1.Citizen review board sounds like a good thing, potentially.

2. Capping the revenue to 15% ? What happens when it goes above that 15% cap? Do they stop giving tickets out until it goes down?

3. Repealing the offense of Failure to Appear? This bothers me a bit. How can you expect anyone to show up for their court date if there is no consequence for not doing so? I think they should keep the 'offense'--but give people more flexibility. If they arrive with children, or are a little late, let them reschedule, without penalties. Give them other ways to pay their fines, like payment plans or community service hours, or hardship exemptions.

I can't really justify #3. It's a court order, no? Are there only certain offenses they are talking about? Maybe I'm confused and need a little clarification.

Yep, I'm confused.

 

[WVWoman]

An expired license is often considered a valid ID and proof of date of birth for certain purposes. Most notably getting a new ID. State rules on valid IDs for drinking and tobacco tend to be written with the assumption the clerk or bar bouncer can't do basic math. Far too often, that is a valid assumption.

I can say in our state WV an expired Id or license is worthless .No tobacco No Drinks.

 

[reedus23]

The opinions expressed seemed to indicate that an indictment was required in order to make an arrest, which isn't factual.




BBM

I agree that an indictment is sought in order to bring a case to trial. I disagree that it's unusual for an arrest to be made prior to an indictment.

indictment n. a charge of a felony (serious crime) voted by a grand jury based upon a proposed charge, witnesses' testimony and other evidence presented by the public prosecutor (District Attorney). To bring an indictment the grand jury will not find guilt, but only the probability that a crime was committed, that the accused person did it, and that he/she should be tried.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/indictment

If probable cause exists, an arrest can be made prior to an indictment. This entire discussion began due to the question being posed as to whether or not an indictment is necessary in order to make an arrest.


Justification for Arrest

The Fourth Amendment requires courts to confirm that an arrest is supported by probable cause either before or shortly after officers take a suspect into custody. A judge or magistrate’s signing an arrest warrant serves this purpose, but most arrests don’t involve warrants. As a result, officers have to get quick probable cause determinations in order to hold most arrestees in jail. But states don’t have to afford defendants an actual “hearing”—rather, it suffices for the prosecution or arresting agency to provide a prompt written statement that a judge or magistrate endorses. (See, for example, D.C. Super. Ct. R. Crim. P. 5(c).)


http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-probable-cause-hearing.html

I misspoke when I stated that folks said it never happens - I apologize.

The fact of the matter is that arrests of both police officers and private citizens have occurred prior to an indictment, because an indictment isn't necessary to make an arrest - probable cause is the deciding factor regarding an arrest.

An indictment pertains to whether or not a prosecutor can or will bring a case to trial.

Thank you so much for that. I had thought that was the case but wasn't certain so I asked. I thought the question of whether or not there is sufficient reason to make an arrest was completely separate from whether or not there are sufficient facts to warrant going forward with a prosecution. In other words, people can be and are arrested but a no true bill is returned and they are released. So if this is accurate, I certainly understand how one could think an arrest should be made, whether I agree with that or not. It wouldn't really change anything other than DW would have an arrest record and would have to post bond. The GJ proceeding would still have to go forward. For that reason alone, whether the facts warrant it or not, I see no reason why DW should be arrested. The GJ process has already started.

 

[Lovejac]

Citizen review boards are pretty common in other cities. But, they'll have to find replacement revenue from somewhere or they'll have to cut city services. All this rhetoric about amnesty seems to be coming from those who don't actually pay property taxes.JMO

BBM

Coincidence?

 

[reedus23]

Looked to me like people were discussing the family's attorney calling for an arrest prior to an indictment or true bill of Wilson, meaning this case not theoreticals. McCulloch's office has laid out the process for officer involved shootings, including this one.

McCulloch's office doesn't make arrests.

 

[Lovejac]

Oh goodness! The meeting isn't going so well according to twitter.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh goodness! The meeting isn't going so well according to twitter.

Gasp! I'm
Shocked!


Not at all really...




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[reedus23]

Yes, but "Jaywalking" just sounds so much better it's a helpful rhetorical device to push a desired perception, I doubt MB defenders will ever quit pushing it out there.

Just like "it was more of a shoplifting situation." And "typical kid stuff"... Etcetera. Etcetera...



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<modsnip> I will also be the first to say telling someone to get out of the street is complete BS. Not that that has anything to do with this case. And yes, I know, others disagree. Here, there isn't a day that goes by where kids aren't walking down the street, oftentimes right in front of cops on their way to school, and are never told to get out of the street.

 

[Lovejac]

Frances Robles&#8207;@FrancesRobles·2m
12 minutes into #Ferguson City Council, Mayor Knowles has lost control of the city council meeting as people stand up with their hands up

https://twitter.com/FrancesRobles