MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[CHERIE.T]

Especially ironic, since LE was accused of slander for releasing that same video. Which doesn't show MB paying for the cigars, by the way.

He stole them plain as day.
Besides.....
If MB paid for the cigarillos why did the store owner try to stop him? sheesheeee

 

[reedus23]

I am curious what everyone's thoughts are on the following comment.

"Do you know why we profile? Because it works."

 

[CHERIE.T]

Oh and the protesters were so freakin peaceful :gaah:
that the National Guard was called in. :banghead:

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

No, that is on you. If you make an allegation, it is up to you to prove it. Not anyone else.

You stated he was a racist for making a factual statement with nothing else to support your contention.

MOO

Sorrel Skye in post 253 posted the AG's transcript. It speaks for itself.

Good day.

 

[nothingnew]

All we need to know to show the crazy behind the robbery deniers is, as usual, the admission of the lawyer. :lol:

In this case, Darian Johnson's own lawyer tells us that DJ admitted to the PD and FBI that the cigarellos weren't paid for.

FREEMAN BOSLEY JR., DORIAN JOHNSON'S ATTORNEY:.. But we need to make clear several days ago, we met with the FBI, the Justice Department, representatives of the prosecutor's office and we laid all of this out them. We met with for over three hours. My client, Dorian Johnson, he started from the beginning from when they work up that morning told them that we went to -- that they went to the store, laid out again the situation involving Big Mike taking the cigarillos. This is not a theft, it's more of a shoplifting situation but my client is relieved because he already knew that they had done this.

LEMON: Well, theft and shoplifting, it's the same thing, isn't it?

BOSLEY: Well, no, robbery there's a difference.

LEMON: Right. Right.

BOSLEY: Yeah, and they were saying it was a strong armed robbery, all right. And we're concerned about that label and we're concerned about the fact that the chief continue to use that label. It's more of a shoplifting type of situation. He's saying robbery because they want to make people think that a lot of violence occurred here.
​

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1408/15/acd.02.html

So to the lawyer himself, the only quibble was whether it was a robbery or shoplifting. :facepalm:



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No, he's not even accepting shoplifting, instead it's a shoplifting "situation" or "type" of situation. Minor stuff that is acceptable apparently in his neck of the woods. Everybody steals and lies. Unbelievable.

 

[sorrell skye]

Sorrel Skye in post 253 posted the AG's transcript. It speaks for itself.

Good day.

The allegation was that AG Holder's reference to himself as a black man was a racist comment. I think that's an extremely serious allegation to make.

Please explain how his comment in the below-linked transcript was a racist comment.

http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/ag/speeches/2014/ag-speech-140820.html


Excerpts of Attorney General Eric Holder’s Remarks at a Community College

Florissant Valley Community College ~ Wednesday, August 20, 2014

“The eyes of the nation and the world are watching Ferguson right now. The world is watching because the issues raised by the shooting of Michael Brown predate this incident. This is something that has a history to it and the history simmers beneath the surface in more communities than just Ferguson.

“We have seen a great deal of progress over the years. But we also see problems and these problems stem from mistrust and mutual suspicion.

“I just had the opportunity to sit down with some wonderful young people and to hear them talk about the mistrust they have at a young age. These are young people and already they are concerned about potential interactions they might have with the police.

“I understand that mistrust. I am the Attorney General of the United States. But I am also a black man. I can remember being stopped on the New Jersey turnpike on two occasions and accused of speeding. Pulled over…“Let me search your car”…Go through the trunk of my car, look under the seats and all this kind of stuff. I remember how humiliating that was and how angry I was and the impact it had on me.

“I think about my time in Georgetown – a nice neighborhood of Washington – and I am running to a picture movie at about 8 o’clock at night. I am running with my cousin. Police car comes driving up, flashes his lights, yells “Where you going? Hold it!” I say “Woah, I’m going to a movie.” Now my cousin started mouthing off. I’m like, “This is not where we want to go. Keep quiet.” I’m angry and upset. We negotiate the whole thing and we walk to our movie. At the time that he stopped me, I was a federal prosecutor. I wasn’t a kid. I was a federal prosecutor. I worked at the United States Department of Justice. So I’ve confronted this myself.”

“We are starting here a good dialogue. But the reality is the dialogue is not enough. We need concrete action to change things in this country. That’s what I have been trying to do. That’s what the President has been trying to do. We have a very active Civil Rights Division. I am proud of what these men and women have done. As they write about the legacy of the Obama administration, a lot of it is going to be about what the Civil Rights Division has done.

“So this interaction must occur. This dialogue is important. But it can’t simply be that we have a conversation that begins based on what happens on August 9, and ends sometime in December, and nothing happens. As I was just telling these young people, change is possible. The same kid who got stopped on the New Jersey freeway is now the Attorney General of the United States. This country is capable of change. But change doesn’t happen by itself.

“So let’s start here. Let’s do the work today.”

 

[SpriteGal]

No, he's not even accepting shoplifting, instead it's a shoplifting "situation" or "type" of situation. Minor stuff that is acceptable apparently in his neck of the woods. Everybody steals and lies. Unbelievable.

LOL. And I like how he says it's not "Theft" but more like Shoplifting. SHOPLIFTING IS THEFT!!

 

[nothingnew]

It's just plain common sense imoo.
I honestly don't understand why people don't 'get it'.

Some people don't get it because they don't want to and you better not dare make them or they'll cry wolf. Same thing with "attempting" to surrender-you throw yourself DOWN, on the ground and keep your mouth shut. Wasted educations all over the place if you cannot comprehend that when a cop tells you to obey a law it is not the time to be telling him/her what you're doing/not doing and arguing about "I don't have anything" "you're hurting me" or "I'm not resisting". Just shut up and behave. Maybe some people will learn something but you can't MAKE them. MO

 

[CHERIE.T]

K_Z posted above:

Eric Holder using his race as any kind of bargaining chip or "tool" to emotionally "connect" with the leaders, or activists, or protestors of Ferguson was being a traitor to the integrity of the process of justice, IMO.

 

[Elley Mae]

:

Mod note:

Stop the political references now. Yes, even the thinly veiled ones.

It's been said enough times. Final warning. Any more will result in time outs.

:bump:

You all need to stop before the hammer comes down. :fence:

 

[reedus23]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/07/o...mo-police-practices-is-just-a-start.html?_r=0

 

[tlcya]

I disagree that AG Holder's comment about being a black man was a racist comment. IMO, his comment is being taken out of context.

The adjective "racist", by definition, is: having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with him referring to himself by his ethnicity, as long as his ethnicity-identity doesn't interfere with his sworn oath to uphold the duties of his office. Until & unless he demonstrates that he's incapable of upholding his sworn oath, I think calling for his resignation is an extreme overreaction.

He was born in the Bronx, NY in 1951. The Civil Rights Movement was in full swing during his formative years. As a black man, he's experienced discrimination and racial profiling during his lifetime. Should he pretend that discrimination and racial profiling don't exist? Should he pretend that he's not black, because he's the US Attorney General?

In context, I interpreted his comment "I am the Attorney General of the United States. But I am also a black man" to mean that he empathizes with the very real issue of discrimination and racial profiling that still occurs in cities & towns across this nation, and I think he was also saying that we've come a long way as a nation, but there's still work to do.

His comment in context:

Excerpts of Attorney General Eric Holder’s Remarks at a Community College

Florissant Valley Community College ~ Wednesday, August 20, 2014

“The eyes of the nation and the world are watching Ferguson right now. The world is watching because the issues raised by the shooting of Michael Brown predate this incident. This is something that has a history to it and the history simmers beneath the surface in more communities than just Ferguson.

“We have seen a great deal of progress over the years. But we also see problems and these problems stem from mistrust and mutual suspicion.

“I just had the opportunity to sit down with some wonderful young people and to hear them talk about the mistrust they have at a young age. These are young people and already they are concerned about potential interactions they might have with the police.

“I understand that mistrust. I am the Attorney General of the United States. But I am also a black man. I can remember being stopped on the New Jersey turnpike on two occasions and accused of speeding. Pulled over…“Let me search your car”…Go through the trunk of my car, look under the seats and all this kind of stuff. I remember how humiliating that was and how angry I was and the impact it had on me.

“I think about my time in Georgetown – a nice neighborhood of Washington – and I am running to a picture movie at about 8 o’clock at night. I am running with my cousin. Police car comes driving up, flashes his lights, yells “Where you going? Hold it!” I say “Woah, I’m going to a movie.” Now my cousin started mouthing off. I’m like, “This is not where we want to go. Keep quiet.” I’m angry and upset. We negotiate the whole thing and we walk to our movie. At the time that he stopped me, I was a federal prosecutor. I wasn’t a kid. I was a federal prosecutor. I worked at the United States Department of Justice. So I’ve confronted this myself.”

“We are starting here a good dialogue. But the reality is the dialogue is not enough. We need concrete action to change things in this country. That’s what I have been trying to do. That’s what the President has been trying to do. We have a very active Civil Rights Division. I am proud of what these men and women have done. As they write about the legacy of the Obama administration, a lot of it is going to be about what the Civil Rights Division has done.

“So this interaction must occur. This dialogue is important. But it can’t simply be that we have a conversation that begins based on what happens on August 9, and ends sometime in December, and nothing happens. As I was just telling these young people, change is possible. The same kid who got stopped on the New Jersey freeway is now the Attorney General of the United States. This country is capable of change. But change doesn’t happen by itself.

“So let’s start here. Let’s do the work today.”

http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/ag/speeches/2014/ag-speech-140820.html

I'm not afraid of a black man in power who calls himself a black man. IMO, folks who get upset about it and say "But what if a white man said the same thing???" - My answer: ethnically speaking, white folks (such as myself) have occupied & do occupy the position of the historical & current majority. Ethnically and historically speaking, it would be unnecessary to say "I am the Attorney General of the United States, but I'm also a white man" because it would be meaningless in terms of any racial adversity one would have overcome on the road to success.

When true ethnic equality is finally achieved, and when ethnic diversity in the workplace is truly actualized, I believe that no one will feel threatened by a black man in power who calls himself a black man (or anyone of color - man or woman, for that matter).

I always enjoy your posts and this is yet another very eloquent and well articulated one. I agree with much of what you say about true ethnic equality and how until it is achieved it is difficult to remove race etc from equations. but part ways on the following issues.

While racist was not the right term for Holder to state the obvious. I did find it offensive. It is clear and apparent he is a black man. Why did he have to put on his black man "hat" in order to make his statements about the Ferguson shooting and his role in investigating it? I found it offensive and it immediately caused me to mistrust him and his entire investigation.

I don't know if that mistrust is warranted but I am simply being honest about my feelings when he did that. If any white official had come onto that scene, where he would play an active role in investigating a case whose facts and evidence had not even been collected, and during a press conference said "as a white man . . ." well, let's just say I would find that equally wrong and distasteful and lead me to feel the same level of mistrust for that man and his role in the investigation.

Which comes first? Ending the divisive speech? Or waiting for the divisive attitudes to fade away so we can put an end to the divisive speech? For me it becomes a chicken or egg question. If we wait around for utopia before changing how we contribute to the problems at hand, well nothing changes with that stance. JMO

ETA this is not a political post or a racial post but my thoughts on why it was not kosher for AG holder to make the specific statements he did upon arriving at the scene of this shooting that we discuss in these threads and why I feel those statements contributed to the public unrest in the town of Ferguson. So I hope it is taken in that vein.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/07/o...mo-police-practices-is-just-a-start.html?_r=0

"A wealth of evidence suggests that justice is not being fairly administered in either Ferguson or greater St. Louis County. If the Justice Department confirms what others have reported, it needs to use all of its authority to restore fairness to the law enforcement process."

Why is it that the city of St. Louis police department is never mentioned as unfair or problematic? It's a much larger force than St. Louis County with many more officers, but I haven't seen them faulted. What are they doing right that others aren't? The recent incident of a knife-brandishing mentally disturbed man begging cops to kill him involved two officers, who may have arrived together. Do Stl Louis city cops patrol in pairs? I don't know if that's fiscally possible, but it certainly seems safer for everyone involved.

 

[nothingnew]

Would you be so kind as to provide the link to the police report? I have not seen it, but I have seen it mentioned previously and would be interested to read to get a better handle on what types of charges MB would have faced if had been apprehended.

police report
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/Ferguson.pdf

link to websleuths media forum for this case
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...el-Brown-*Media-Timelines-Maps*-No-Discussion

 

[tlcya]

sorry for the off topic guys, but this afternoon it was confirmed that a human skull was found by hunters just 11 miles from the suspect in the Holly Bobo case's property. Will be a couple of days likely before confirmation can be had if the remains are indeed Holly, but I know some of y'all may have been following that case and might want to know.

 

[reedus23]

"A wealth of evidence suggests that justice is not being fairly administered in either Ferguson or greater St. Louis County. If the Justice Department confirms what others have reported, it needs to use all of its authority to restore fairness to the law enforcement process."

Why is it that the city of St. Louis police department is never mentioned as unfair or problematic? It's a much larger force than St. Louis County with many more officers, but I haven't seen them faulted. What are they doing right that others aren't? The recent incident of a knife-brandishing mentally disturbed man begging cops to kill him involved two officers, who may have arrived together. Do Stl Louis city cops patrol in pairs? I don't know if that's fiscally possible, but it certainly seems safer for everyone involved.

I think that some actions with the City have come into question in the past. It's just my personal opinion, but being larger than these other municipalities, I do think that the City has learned from past experiences. Simply the size of it means they have dealt with similar situations more than the smaller municipalities.

Regarding patrolling in pairs, I will say, I can't get pulled over for speeding without 2 or 3 cops pulling up before I'm ever approached. They don't "patrol" together, but they do seem to always wait for support first. I don't know that that is feasible in Ferguson and the other municipalities but I will say, I am only aware of 2 incidents involving DW. His actions may be justified in both instances at the end of the day, but the one thing that stuck out to me in both instances is that he engaged suspects on both occasions without having previously called in another officer or more. Maybe that is their policy in Ferguson because of a lack of officers and I'm not suggesting that LE should have to call in other officers, but it is something that stood out to me. I bet its been 15 years or more since I had just one car pull me over for a simple speeding ticket so it just struck me as different.

 

[Klood-N]

Been following this shooting and a few other cases here, so decided to get signed up. I started keeping notes re: this incident. This is one quote that jumped out to me.

Michael Brown’s mother, Lesley McSpadden, said she never experienced any tension with the Ferguson Police Department.

Her son, who was shot and killed by a Ferguson police officer, was never in trouble with the police and did not have any negative interaction with police in Ferguson.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/13/browns-mother-we-dont-know-what-happened/

If nothing had ever been negative before, why jump to claiming this was a cold-blooded execution and call for the death penalty against the officer?

 

[tlcya]

:wagon: Klood-N

boy did you pick a hot button case, difficult to discuss within TOS and emotional to boot, to join in on. Thanks for your thoughts. You pose a good question in your first post. IMO a lot of folks jumped to some very strong conclusions which were later not borne out by the witnesses (once they had told their stories a few times and interviewers were picking out their inconsistencies) or common sense.

It is very hard to unring a bell, even one rung based on wrong information, specualtion, assumption and misinformation. Even harder to unring that type IMO

 

[Dana]

:welcome:

Welcome to WS Klood-N!!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Been following this shooting and a few other cases here, so decided to get signed up. I started keeping notes re: this incident. This is one quote that jumped out to me.

Michael Brown’s mother, Lesley McSpadden, said she never experienced any tension with the Ferguson Police Department.

Her son, who was shot and killed by a Ferguson police officer, was never in trouble with the police and did not have any negative interaction with police in Ferguson.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/13/browns-mother-we-dont-know-what-happened/

If nothing had ever been negative before, why jump to claiming this was a cold-blooded execution and call for the death penalty against the officer?

Welcome to posting at Websleuths!!!


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