MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #17

[HarvestMoon]

I am just thrilled that this action has or is in process of leaving the area of the highway. Worried about protests at jail and the potential for things to be less than peaceful. I am all for peaceful demonstration but in addition to getting clear on "what is your ask?" someone needs to really explain that every ask will not be immediately met with "okey dokey, so mote it be"

Change is what people seem to be asking for and that is fine but what change? how will it be made, with specificity? By whom? Replaced with what instead? Is that reasonable and doable? What is a reasonable timeline for that change to be instituted?

We have raised a generation of microwave and highspeed net service individuals who don't seem to have a very clear concept that change takes time and must be undertaken carefully or anarchy rules. So for those who say the protesters are not asking for total anarchy, what are the protestors thinking they are accomplishing by continuing to demand change but allowing for no time or plan with which to institute said change?

They are in the beginning stages. With this freeway closure attempt I'm guessing that they have seasoned police killing protestors there giving ideas and information. They need to organize after their outpouring of anger and compile a list of demands for change. This is a long long tiresome process, and eventually needs to be taken to their city /county/state government systems.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Actually I think the majority are mad, sad, have anger and grief, and want to be heard. The court system as you spoke of is a long long road to any kind of change when dealing with law enforcement.

Well, IMO they couldn't possibly go about in a more damaging way!
I find them and their demands ridiculous. Any sympathy I may have had, has evaporated by this stomach turning display of entitlement and ignorance beyond description.


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[Minette]

Poor souls, can chant until they are hoarse, Wilson will remain in hiding on paid leave.

They can chant until they are hoarse, Wilson will remain in protective custody due to threats on his life and on paid leave due to standard procedure following a shooting incident.

 

[reedus23]

NO ONE was applying there unless they couldn't get a job anywhere else? How do you know this? And I also wonder about how Ferguson is supposed to pay higher salaries when they have just promised to cut down on a major source of revenue? (I'm referring to the promise to stop adding fines to tickets if a person doesn't show up in court. This was extensively discussed in the last thread (I think) and I can go look for a link but I'm hoping you remember those posts because frankly, I'm lazy, ha!) And I know that Ferguson LE has been painted as THE bad guy in all this, but I can find a link that says ANY of the ~20 LEOs who were fired, retired, or resigned in the wake of all this were actually from the Ferguson PD.

But IMO, the issue remains the same: this whole St. Louis metro area has now been nationally vilified. Why would anyone, especially the ones who have the pick of places to apply want to work there now? Honest question!

Only from every cop I do talk to. Are there exceptions? Possibly. But if you had your choice of patrolling Ferguson or working in affluent Ladue or Chesterfield where there is not nearly the amount of crime and the pay is better, which would you choose?

I don't know where the money comes from. In an earlier thread, someone said where they are the cops start at like $24,000. That disgusts me. I don't know what the answer is but that should be changed somehow.

I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together with your comment about 20 officers. The St. Louis City chief said that 20 officers have left their department amid charges of excessive force. I don't know over what period of time that is, but 1 of those 20 that left the City police department after an internal affairs investigation found merit to a claim of excessive force when he beat a 12 year old girl with his pistol then found a job with the FPD. That is the reference I was alluding to.

 

[reedus23]

NO ONE was applying there unless they couldn't get a job anywhere else? How do you know this? And I also wonder about how Ferguson is supposed to pay higher salaries when they have just promised to cut down on a major source of revenue? (I'm referring to the promise to stop adding fines to tickets if a person doesn't show up in court. This was extensively discussed in the last thread (I think) and I can go look for a link but I'm hoping you remember those posts because frankly, I'm lazy, ha!) And I know that Ferguson LE has been painted as THE bad guy in all this, but I can find a link that says ANY of the ~20 LEOs who were fired, retired, or resigned in the wake of all this were actually from the Ferguson PD.

But IMO, the issue remains the same: this whole St. Louis metro area has now been nationally vilified. Why would anyone, especially the ones who have the pick of places to apply want to work there now? Honest question!

Then the honest answer is don't come. No one is forcing anyone to.

 

[popsicle]

Matt Pearce ‏@mattdpearce 10m
A report that Ferguson demonstrators have blocked a *different* freeway:

Alissa Reitmeier @AlissaReitmeierOnly on 4: Photo of #Protesters in lanes of 64/40WB near @SLSC. @kmov pic.twitter.com/CibCoeAwuX

 

[Klood-N]

They are in the beginning stages. With this freeway closure attempt I'm guessing that they have seasoned police killing protestors there giving ideas and information. They need to organize after their outpouring of anger and compile a list of demands for change. This is a long long tiresome process, and eventually needs to be taken to their city /county/state government systems.

Nope, this is a month in. They've made multiple demands at a local and national level and keep adding to them, with accompanying threats to include burning down city hall, after burning down a QuickTrip, attempting to burn down a BBQ joint, throwing Molotov cocktails, urine, bricks, shooting police cars, etc. Might want to read last night's city council posts.

 

[MyBelle]

Matt Pearce ‏@mattdpearce 10m
A report that Ferguson demonstrators have blocked a *different* freeway:

Alissa Reitmeier @AlissaReitmeierOnly on 4: Photo of #Protesters in lanes of 64/40WB near @SLSC. @kmov pic.twitter.com/CibCoeAwuX

And you can bet your boots those stopped motorists are taking their own photos and documenting license numbers.

 

[reedus23]

So little crime where I live...they installed red light cameras...shortened the yellow and raked in millions...until busted.

We didn't riot, burn anything or even shut down the road...we used the courts!!

Still have red light cameras but now the timing is back to normal.


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Red light cameras here are being stricken down as unconstitutional. If that happens across the board, some municipalities could go broke if they have to refund all that money. I can't see how they can keep money that was gained unconstitutionally.

A quick aside on red light cameras and I don't know if it's urban legend or not, probably is, but I found it amusing. One of the problems with them is they only identify the vehicle, not the operator. It has been said that the reason they don't also snap a picture of the driver is because they once did when they were first instituted but one of the politicians that pushed it through got his picture taken...with his mistress in the car with him. Quickly changed that one to only snap a picture of the vehicle and license plate. lol

 

[Minette]

Only from every cop I do talk to. Are there exceptions? Possibly. But if you had your choice of patrolling Ferguson or working in affluent Ladue or Chesterfield where there is not nearly the amount of crime and the pay is better, which would you choose?

I don't know where the money comes from. In an earlier thread, someone said where they are the cops start at like $24,000. That disgusts me. I don't know what the answer is but that should be changed somehow.

I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together with your comment about 20 officers. The St. Louis City chief said that 20 officers have left their department amid charges of excessive force. I don't know over what period of time that is, but 1 of those 20 that left the City police department after an internal affairs investigation found merit to a claim of excessive force when he beat a 12 year old girl with his pistol then found a job with the FPD. That is the reference I was alluding to.

Despite the fact that I am not doubting your word at all, anecdotal evidence should still be identified as opinion rather than fact. It IS disgusting that LEOs, firefighters, and teachers get paid such ridiculously low amounts. The problem is, since they are paid for out of public funds collected via taxation, the public does not really want to PAY for the numbers/quality of people they claim to want in those public service jobs. At least the people who actually pay property taxes and such do not want to pay for that, and I think a lot of folks don't realize that the government really has no money of its own, just what it collects from taxpayers.

In the current situation, I wonder how on earth the city, county, highway patrol and even the state are going to pay for all this overtime?? Personally, I would laugh at the idea of taking a job where people are going to be shooting at me, trying to stab me, fighting me and throwing bottles of pee at me (sorry, I'm kind of hung up on that, I know) for $24,000 but that's life in the public schools these days. Or wait, did I mean LE? Not much difference these days.

 

[Klood-N]

And you can bet your boots those stopped motorists are taking their own photos and documenting license numbers.

And LE is monitoring social media.

 

[HarvestMoon]

Nope, this is a month in. They've made multiple demands at a local and national level and keep adding to them, with accompanying threats to include burning down city hall, after burning down a QuickTrip, attempting to burn down a BBQ joint, throwing Molotov cocktails, urine, bricks, shooting police cars, etc. Might want to read last night's city council posts.

A month in is still new. Yes, I've been following the story from day one. However, I did not know that they have presented written demands to their city council ?

 

[HarvestMoon]

And LE is monitoring social media.

They do indeed.

 

[bettybaby00]

I am just thrilled that this action has or is in process of leaving the area of the highway. Worried about protests at jail and the potential for things to be less than peaceful. I am all for peaceful demonstration but in addition to getting clear on "what is your ask?" someone needs to really explain that every ask will not be immediately met with "okey dokey, so mote it be"

Change is what people seem to be asking for and that is fine but what change? how will it be made, with specificity? By whom? Replaced with what instead? Is that reasonable and doable? What is a reasonable timeline for that change to be instituted?

We have raised a generation of microwave and highspeed net service individuals who don't seem to have a very clear concept that change takes time and must be undertaken carefully or anarchy rules. So for those who say the protesters are not asking for total anarchy, what are the protestors thinking they are accomplishing by continuing to demand change but allowing for no time or plan with which to institute said change?

Thank you!!!!

This is what the "activists" and political leaders should be conveying. So much more could be accomplished if people with clearer heads tried to educate instead of inciting more anger and outrage.

 

[reedus23]

Since Ferguson is getting less revenue from offense amnesty I think County may take it over. Then what, raise property taxes or local tax to pay for it? I don't think they have a clue what cost this is going to come at. Not to mention cost of damages and LE OT to date.

Well if the County takes over, it would then become my tax dollars at work. My tax dollars already do it for other municipalities. Not excited about the idea but I don't know the answer. All I know is that the current set up doesn't work, especially if cops are starting at $24,000 like someone else said.

 

[Oceans]

Nope, didn't even get to the highway. Shahid and others arrested, so they're moving the protest to the jail.

WOW! That's a step in the right direction!
JMO.

 

[Klood-N]

You know, I'm really glad none of the radical St Louis activists have come here (Websleuths) with their rants and spin. It wouldn't sell.

 

[MyBelle]

A month in is still new. Yes, I've been following the story from day one. However, I did not know that they have presented written demands to their city council ?

As in extortion? I wasn't aware any citizen can present "demands" to government officials and actually expect it to be successful. Has that ever worked successfully?

 

[Oceans]

Thanks for all the updates to everyone! I have been so busy in the past two days that I missed most of the action. But it's fun to catch up here on all the happenings.

 

[bettybaby00]

Getting a little dicey.

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