MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #17

[bettybaby00]

Today is 9/11, a day when evil attacked our country, borne of hate. To me, it has great spiritual significance. I think the book The Harbinger analyzes that well, and might interest those who enjoy sleuthing connections and data. Anyway, waking contemplatively as the sun rose also left me thinking about Michael. As a Christian, it touches my heart to know he'd accepted The Lord shortly before he died. I know where he is, that there's peace and joy there, and that he no longer struggles with where he fits. I don't know if anyone told him, but there can be great spiritual struggle around the time of that big spiritual step. To me, the sense of that around this case echoes a larger feeling of escalating division and chaos. I recognize as others do that his visions could have been from substances or mental wellbeing, but I can also see the possibility that they were genuinely spiritual events. I can see how some could see the stories that he was discussing Jesus with the construction worker as more of the false narrative, but to me it's entirely possible for him to have done that and then chosen to strong arm and assault afterwards. "Bad vibes". I hear him. His choices were still his, and I wish he'd made far different ones. He caused his death and harmed others. It was a waste. A man trying to do a thankless, difficult job is isolated, injured, and threatened. And now the town is under siege with burning buildings and hate and those seeking to harness hate for their own uses. Which brings me back to 9/11. I hope, today of all days, those with seething rage and those seeking to exploit it are constrained, and maybe some will pause and question their own choices, choosing a better path. That should be what comes from Michael's death.

These are my thoughts today.

Thank you. My heart is so heavy today, and I hope your 'wish' comes true.

If their planned protest for today actually happens, they are sure to anger a great many people, and perhaps loose some of the support they do have from people outside of Furgeson.

 

[sonjay]

Actually, there is a photo that shows brass at one of the cones. If you know the site, you can look for it.

I must have missed that photo; I'll have to go look for it. If there was brass out there beyond MB's body, that's very strongly supportive of OW backing up. Brass can fly, but typically it doesn't fly all that far. Oooohhh... brass typically flies to the right, out the ejection port on the right side of the gun. Those 3 cones beyond MB's body would be on OW's right as he fired at MB. Interesting.

 

[SStarr33]

I hope someone is successful at sleuthing out that information. I'm usually pretty good at searching, but I've been unable to find out anything about the genesis of those photos of the note.

Hopefully he will re-open his twitter account--might get more info if he does. I did get on as a follower before he shut it down. I think he got nervous after he posted the photo of DJ at the scene. Maybe he got some blowback??

 

[Klood-N]

MB was an avid gamer, imo because he didn't like to talk as his voice was noticeably childish according to DJ. I wish we knew which games MB played most since virtual reality certainly didn't comport with actual reality his last day. In MB's games getting away from cops on foot was easy and feigning surrender, then approaching cops in order to knock them out or take their weapon earned the player points, not death.

Regarding the voice thing, I think that may be another Dorian dishonesty because I certainly didn't notice the voice of a child in Big Mike's raps.

The video games is interesting though, thanks.

 

[SStarr33]

I must have missed that photo; I'll have to go look for it. If there was brass out there beyond MB's body, that's very strongly supportive of OW backing up. Brass can fly, but typically it doesn't fly all that far. Oooohhh... brass typically flies to the right, out the ejection port on the right side of the gun. Those 3 cones beyond MB's body would be on OW's right as he fired at MB. Interesting.

Pretty sure it was within the past 5 days. It is a screenshot from a video. Sorry I didn't bookmark it

 

[DebinGA]

Anthony Fatiha Shahid

http://www.stlmugshots.com/show.php?id=076613699&name=anthony-shahid

Those meanies made Shahid take off his Village People policeman hat: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2008/04/29/VillagePeople460.jpg

 

[Klood-N]

Thank you. My heart is so heavy today, and I hope your 'wish' comes true.

If their planned protest for today actually happens, they are sure to anger a great many people, and perhaps loose some of the support they do have from people outside of Furgeson.

Very true, especially if demands are made on 9/11. I expect an ISIS video today; if there's also video of Ferguson demands, I agree. Any reasonable people who haven't turned their backs yet, would.

 

[human]

I havent seen any one of the characters involved in this case that can hold a candle to MLK. :candle:

Really? Did you read what he had to say in his letter from jail? It is just as inflammatory as what is being said today. He was in jail! He and his supporters were continually monitored by the FBI and arrested.

He was not appreciated by the whites at the time. Not one tiny bit.

Freedom Summer is another interesting time. We may celebrate MLK now, but he was reviled

Here is a pretty mild reading of Freedom summer which one can see the same kind of issues being addressed once again, but at least the people are not getting bombed.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Summer

 

[DebinGA]

Regarding the voice thing, I think that may be another Dorian dishonesty because I certainly didn't notice the voice of a child in Big Mike's raps.

The video games is interesting though, thanks.

WaPo: "He don’t like to talk to people,” the buddy said. “He’s in my house, he’s going to talk to me,” [Dorian] Johnson replied – then he engaged Brown. Johnson soon had the answer to his own question. “His voice didn’t fit his body. He might as well have been my size,” said Johnson, who is a lean 5-foot-7. “Everybody we came around felt a little intimidated by him,” he said. “When he opened up his mouth … you’d say, ‘Naw, this guy wouldn’t hurt anybody.’ When he talked, you heard the kid in his voice.”

DJ could well be lying, wanting to present MB as a kid. But emphasizing his size wasn't helpful, as OW probably didn't hear him speak much if any.

 

[reedus23]

That's essentially what I tried to do in my post about the CWs' accounts a few posts up. I'm attempting to judge their credibility in light of the other witnesses and what physical evidence we're aware of.

In particular, I'm focusing on those final few seconds when OW fired the fatal shots at MB. It's pretty clear from the witnesses that MB was moving toward OW at the time. Given how quickly it all unfolded, it's likely that from the time he started moving toward OW until the time he fell down dead, was mere seconds, and the "moving" followed immediately by the "falling" could easily appear to a witness to look like "stumbling."

In my own mind, I'm satisfied that MB was moving toward OW, and that means he wasn't "surrendering." Surrendering would be stop, put your hands up, and don't move. Especially don't move toward the police officer.

Since MB was not surrendering, and he was moving toward OW, that means, particularly in light of the assault at the car, that OW had plenty of good reason to be in fear for his life, and plenty of good reason to shoot.

I would so love to be a fly on the wall in the GJ room, and get to see and hear everything they're seeing and hearing. As it is, I'm forming my opinion based on what evidence is currently available to me. I'm open to changing that opinion if better evidence emerges that tells a different story, but I doubt that's going to happen.

If you're referring to your long post, I thought that was a good post. Regardless of whether we agree or not, I thought you put a lot of thoughtful analysis into it. I'm still not sold one way or the other if MB had surrendered or if he had moved on OW. There are a lot of witnesses that have indicated that MB had put his hands up in some fashion. To me that is a sign of surrender. I think I've heard more than one witness say that as MB turned with his hands up, he was saying "Ok, ok, ok." which also indicates surrendering to me. I have also seen/heard witnesses describe MB moving towards OW which could indicate he was not surrendering. I also recognize the relatively speaking short span of time that this happened in, which makes those decisions difficult if you're OW. I simply think there is more evidence that we would have to know to make a determination. I think there is more about the witness statements themselves that need to be flushed out as to what certain comments mean and putting them into context. The investigators have all this information. We don't but hopefully we will some day.

 

[reedus23]

"You smell a rat because it doesn't fit the story you want to believe." This could be said for a few here

Assuming that is directed to me, what story do you think I want to believe?

 

[human]

If you were shot, how would you respond? Would you be thinking clearly?

You would have no pain? You would not be stumbling or falling in pain?

 

[reedus23]

I smell a rat and it has nothing to do with any story. It's a simple formula...RCP, PLP newspaper, landscaper statement, Travis Morales participation in Ferguson mayhem. Cannot connect the dots due to TOS, you'll have to do your own homework.

So the communists manufactured the statements of the witnesses? Or was it Shahid? I have no doubt that these chit disturbers have added fuel to the fire. I have no doubt that they try to shape the messages being shouted. I would doubt that a couple of good old boys from Jefferson County are going to fall in tow with some radicals. Could it happen? Sure and if it plays out that way, it plays out that way.

 

[Trident]

If you were shot, how would you respond? Would you be thinking clearly?

You would have no pain? You would not be stumbling or falling in pain?

"I" would avoid being shot in the first place by not attacking a police officer after refusing to get out of the middle of darned road, nor would I have strong-armed a store clerk after taking cigars for whatever purpose.

As far as I'm concerned, any pain was self inflicted by MB's previous actions.

 

[reedus23]

Oh he was one of the ones arrested on assault on an officer.

I'll be honest, I am shocked he got arrested. When the very first people were arrested while lying on the ground, I saw him standing and backing away like being arrested was the last thing he wanted. I already don't think highly of Shahid on a personal level but that made me think he was all talk and let others do the walking.

 

[sonjay]

If you're referring to your long post, I thought that was a good post. Regardless of whether we agree or not, I thought you put a lot of thoughtful analysis into it. I'm still not sold one way or the other if MB had surrendered or if he had moved on OW. There are a lot of witnesses that have indicated that MB had put his hands up in some fashion. To me that is a sign of surrender. I think I've heard more than one witness say that as MB turned with his hands up, he was saying "Ok, ok, ok." which also indicates surrendering to me. I have also seen/heard witnesses describe MB moving towards OW which could indicate he was not surrendering. I also recognize the relatively speaking short span of time that this happened in, which makes those decisions difficult if you're OW. I simply think there is more evidence that we would have to know to make a determination. I think there is more about the witness statements themselves that need to be flushed out as to what certain comments mean and putting them into context. The investigators have all this information. We don't but hopefully we will some day.

Putting his hands up in some fashion would, by itself, typically be seen as surrendering. But if hands are up -- or out -- while advancing on the officer, IMO that's not surrendering. There are enough witnesses saying he moved toward OW that I believe he moved toward OW. Also, the evidence cones farther away out beyond MB's body .... they're marking something, which means something happened out there farther away, which means MB moved back toward OW.

As far as the "short span of time that this happened in, which makes those decisions difficult if you're OW." That's exactly what SCOTUS addressed in Graham v Connor. "it must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer at the scene—and its calculus must embody the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation." (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force -- but you'll be able to source that decision in many other places as well.) Very clearly, the benefit of the doubt in a split-second decision like that must go to the officer. He was the only one there at the time who had to make an instantaneous decision to fire or not fire, and the stakes were high regardless of which decision he made. At least he's alive now, to face the death threats and the accusations of murder, and not dead, which he would very possibly be if he had made the decision not to fire. In that case, he would be just another cop killed in the line of duty, a statistic with no national media interest to mark his death, ignored by Eric Holder, and unimportant to the activists and instigators.

 

[reedus23]

What I react to are the 'demands' couched like "give us Darren Wilson or Ferguson will burn!" which begs the question that no one ever seems to ask, which is "And exactly what would you do to him if you got him?" And then there was was the especially tone deaf "if Wilson isn't arrested we'll burn down city hall!" I don't see how that can be characterized as anything other than extortion. I won't go so far as to say 'domestic terrorism' as some have, but you know what, maybe I'll change my mind if they start up with that stuff today of all days.

To me that's like someone saying "Hell no!!! We won't go!!!" Well, of course you'll go. You really don't mean that. You're saying it for effect, symbolically. You're not going to spend the entirety of your life there.

 

[Sonya610]

If you were shot, how would you respond?

The response sure as heck would NOT be going towards the person who shot me, especially if they shot me BECAUSE I nearly beat them unconscious moments before!

If you want them to STOP shooting you then staying AWAY from them would be step #1

 

[Klood-N]

Missouri Revised Statutes

Chapter 565
Offenses Against the Person
Section 565.082

August 28, 2013



Assault of a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer in the second degree, definition, penalty.
565.082. 1. A person commits the crime of assault of a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer in the second degree if such person:

(1) Knowingly causes or attempts to cause physical injury to a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer by means of a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument;

(2) Knowingly causes or attempts to cause physical injury to a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer by means other than a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument;

(3) Recklessly causes serious physical injury to a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer; or

(4) While in an intoxicated condition or under the influence of controlled substances or drugs, operates a motor vehicle or vessel in this state and when so operating, acts with criminal negligence to cause physical injury to a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer;

(5) Acts with criminal negligence to cause physical injury to a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer by means of a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument;

(6) Purposely or recklessly places a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer in apprehension of immediate serious physical injury; or

(7) Acts with criminal negligence to create a substantial risk of death or serious physical injury to a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer.

2. As used in this section, "emergency personnel" means any paid or volunteer firefighter, emergency room or trauma center personnel, or emergency medical technician as defined in subdivisions (15), (16), (17), and (18) of section 190.100.

3. As used in this section the term "corrections officer" includes any jailer or corrections officer of the state or any political subdivision of the state.

4. When used in this section, the terms "highway worker", "construction zone", or "work zone" shall have the same meaning as such terms are defined in section 304.580.

5. As used in this section, the term "utility worker" means any employee while in performance of their job duties, including any person employed under contract of a utility that provides gas, heat, electricity, water, steam, telecommunications services, or sewer services, whether privately, municipally, or cooperatively owned.

6. As used in this section, the term "cable worker" means any employee, including any person employed under contract of a cable operator, as such term is defined in section 67.2677.

7. Assault of a law enforcement officer, corrections officer, emergency personnel, highway worker in a construction zone or work zone, utility worker, cable worker, or probation and parole officer in the second degree is a class B felony unless committed pursuant to subdivision (2), (5), (6), or (7) of subsection 1 of this section in which case it is a class C felony. For any violation of subdivision (1), (3), or (4) of subsection 1 of this section, the defendant must serve mandatory jail time as part of his or her sentence.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5650000082.htm

 

[reedus23]

Today is 9/11, a day when evil attacked our country, borne of hate. To me, it has great spiritual significance. I think the book The Harbinger analyzes that well, and might interest those who enjoy sleuthing connections and data. Anyway, waking contemplatively as the sun rose also left me thinking about Michael. As a Christian, it touches my heart to know he'd accepted The Lord shortly before he died. I know where he is, that there's peace and joy there, and that he no longer struggles with where he fits. I don't know if anyone told him, but there can be great spiritual struggle around the time of that big spiritual step. To me, the sense of that around this case echoes a larger feeling of escalating division and chaos. I recognize as others do that his visions could have been from substances or mental wellbeing, but I can also see the possibility that they were genuinely spiritual events. I can see how some could see the stories that he was discussing Jesus with the construction worker as more of the false narrative, but to me it's entirely possible for him to have done that and then chosen to strong arm and assault afterwards. "Bad vibes". I hear him. His choices were still his, and I wish he'd made far different ones. He caused his death and harmed others. It was a waste. A man trying to do a thankless, difficult job is isolated, injured, and threatened. And now the town is under siege with burning buildings and hate and those seeking to harness hate for their own uses. Which brings me back to 9/11. I hope, today of all days, those with seething rage and those seeking to exploit it are constrained, and maybe some will pause and question their own choices, choosing a better path. That should be what comes from Michael's death.

These are my thoughts today.

Great post and worth bumping. (Even if I don't know who is at cause for his death, the sentiments you expressed are worthy)