MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #17

[reedus23]

MB was an avid gamer, imo because he didn't like to talk as his voice was noticeably childish according to DJ. I wish we knew which games MB played most since virtual reality certainly didn't comport with actual reality his last day. In MB's games getting away from cops on foot was easy and feigning surrender, then approaching cops in order to knock them out or take their weapon earned the player points, not death.

Yeah, my son plays Grand Theft Auto. He loves stealing the cop's helicopter so he can fly it around shooting stuff up. My son has also never gotten as much as a demerit at school and has straight A's.

 

[Frydaddy]

So the communists manufactured the statements of the witnesses? Or was it Shahid? I have no doubt that these chit disturbers have added fuel to the fire. I have no doubt that they try to shape the messages being shouted. I would doubt that a couple of good old boys from Jefferson County are going to fall in tow with some radicals. Could it happen? Sure and if it plays out that way, it plays out that way.

Just pointing out that there are reasons some find the witnesses questionable. You said a poster smelled a rat because witnesses didn't match their story, I simply showed that wasn't necessarily the case. Do your doubts about the good old boys carry greater weight than the doubts others might have?

 

[Trident]

To me that's like someone saying "Hell no!!! We won't go!!!" Well, of course you'll go. You really don't mean that. You're saying it for effect, symbolically. You're not going to spend the entirety of your life there.

Errr, many young men spent a good piece of their life in Canada and elsewhere. They weren't all hat and no cattle.

 

[Frydaddy]

If you were shot, how would you respond? Would you be thinking clearly?

You would have no pain? You would not be stumbling or falling in pain?

Do you consider the response of Wilson being hit in the same fashion?

 

[DebinGA]

From AP article of yesterday's protest: "Highway Patrol Sgt. Al Nothum said that 35 people were arrested, most on charges of unlawful assembly. Nothum said protesters threw rocks, concrete blocks, bricks and bottles, leading to four charges of assault on a law enforcement officer."

 

[Trident]

I'll be honest, I am shocked he got arrested. When the very first people were arrested while lying on the ground, I saw him standing and backing away like being arrested was the last thing he wanted. I already don't think highly of Shahid on a personal level but that made me think he was all talk and let others do the walking.

Welcome to the real world.

 

[reedus23]

I've come down on the side of justified given the struggle at the car and the alleged attempt to go for the officer's gun but I agree that it is legitimate to reserve judgement at this point. The statutes I posted all go to the fact that Michael *had* committed a felony of assaulting an officer that day so it can reasonably be concluded that OW saw him as a threat to himself and to the public.

For the sake of argument (and because I think it will probably play out as such), assuming MB assaulted OW and that is the requisite felony having been committed under the statute, there is still a second requirement called for under the statute, namely whether or not OW reasonably believed that deadly force was immediately necessary to effect the arrest. That, to me, all comes down to were his hands up saying "Ok, ok, ok" or was he advancing on OW. Most of the witness statements seem to say the former. Parts of witness statements seem to say the latter. I just don't know how any determination can be made yet.

 

[popsicle]

STL Public Radio ‏@stlpublicradio 36m
Missouri residents with concealed-carry permits will be able to openly carry their firearms anywhere in the state: http://bit.ly/1tBjB6y


[h=1]Legislature Expands Gun Rights With Override Of Nixon's Veto[/h]

 

[SStarr33]

STL Public Radio ‏@stlpublicradio 36m
Missouri residents with concealed-carry permits will be able to openly carry their firearms anywhere in the state: http://bit.ly/1tBjB6y


[h=1]Legislature Expands Gun Rights With Override Of Nixon's Veto[/h]

This is just AWESOME

 

[reedus23]

"I" would avoid being shot in the first place by not attacking a police officer after refusing to get out of the middle of darned road, nor would I have strong-armed a store clerk after taking cigars for whatever purpose.

As far as I'm concerned, any pain was self inflicted by MB's previous actions.

I get that sentiment in a broad sense. What I don't think is that that answers the question of whether the shooting was justified.

 

[Klood-N]

STL Public Radio ‏@stlpublicradio 36m
Missouri residents with concealed-carry permits will be able to openly carry their firearms anywhere in the state: http://bit.ly/1tBjB6y


[h=1]Legislature Expands Gun Rights With Override Of Nixon's Veto[/h]

Interestingly saw on SM some protestors unhappy about that. Wonder if permits have gone up this month from concerned law-abiding citizens feeling endangered by riots.

 

[popsicle]

Photos of what the worker wrote down:

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/850/5204371729.jpg

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/850/7839281754.jpg

Did you put this in the media thread?

 

[reedus23]

Putting his hands up in some fashion would, by itself, typically be seen as surrendering. But if hands are up -- or out -- while advancing on the officer, IMO that's not surrendering. There are enough witnesses saying he moved toward OW that I believe he moved toward OW. Also, the evidence cones farther away out beyond MB's body .... they're marking something, which means something happened out there farther away, which means MB moved back toward OW.

As far as the "short span of time that this happened in, which makes those decisions difficult if you're OW." That's exactly what SCOTUS addressed in Graham v Connor. "it must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer at the scene—and its calculus must embody the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation." (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force -- but you'll be able to source that decision in many other places as well.) Very clearly, the benefit of the doubt in a split-second decision like that must go to the officer. He was the only one there at the time who had to make an instantaneous decision to fire or not fire, and the stakes were high regardless of which decision he made. At least he's alive now, to face the death threats and the accusations of murder, and not dead, which he would very possibly be if he had made the decision not to fire. In that case, he would be just another cop killed in the line of duty, a statistic with no national media interest to mark his death, ignored by Eric Holder, and unimportant to the activists and instigators.

Yes, just some of the information I'm almost impatiently now waiting for.

 

[SStarr33]

Did you put this in the media thread?

Yes

 

[popsicle]

Any idea who or where that photo came from?

Or why it sort-of appears to be written on 2 separate pages but sort-of not.... The first page ends with the words "I would say" at the very bottom of what appears to be a standard 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper, but the second page has the words "I would say" about halfway down, or a little more than halfway down, the sheet of paper.

Also, they appear to be photocopies. The way the top line is cut off at the top of the second page -- that's what a photocopy machine does.

Does anyone know if these photos are confirmed to be photos of what the CW actually wrote down?

Does anyone know if either of the CWs is a member of the Revolutionary Communist Progressive Labor Party? Or, if neither of them has anything to do with the CP, why would the CW's note be photographed lying on a car seat next to an issue of the CPs paper?

Photos of what the worker wrote down:

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/850/5204371729.jpg

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/850/7839281754.jpg

I'm late so sorry if this has been covered. The sides say... comments.. internal.. employees

 

[reedus23]

Just pointing out that there are reasons some find the witnesses questionable. You said a poster smelled a rat because witnesses didn't match their story, I simply showed that wasn't necessarily the case. Do your doubts about the good old boys carry greater weight than the doubts others might have?

Fair enough. If one wants to believe it's all a communist conspiracy, they have every right to do so. Or whatever they want to believe. My point really is that I think there is a group on one side that are deeply entrenched into believing OW is guilty. I also think that there is a group on the other side that is so deeply entrenched into believing OW is justified. And I don't think anything can be presented that would sway them to another position. And yes, there is also a third group that are waiting to see how it plays out.

 

[Trident]

[/B]

I get that sentiment in a broad sense. What I don't think is that that answers the question of whether the shooting was justified.

Here's the post I answered. I hate tilting at phony windmills.

[/B]

If you were shot, how would you respond? Would you be thinking clearly?

You would have no pain? You would not be stumbling or falling in pain?

[/B]

 

[Trident]

Fair enough. If one wants to believe it's all a communist conspiracy, they have every right to do so. Or whatever they want to believe. My point really is that I think there is a group on one side that are deeply entrenched into believing OW is guilty. I also think that there is a group on the other side that is so deeply entrenched into believing OW is justified. And I don't think anything can be presented that would sway them to another position. And yes, there is also a third group that are waiting to see how it plays out.

Which group are you in?

 

[Klood-N]

Anthony Fatiha Shahid

http://www.stlmugshots.com/show.php?id=076613699&name=anthony-shahid

I don't see anything on Missouri casenet yet. Isn't there Vine or something along those lines where we might see if his arraignment or court appearance will be today? If it is, his protestors may show up. Saw #freebroshahid.

ETA: Should've been more specific. I do see other cases involving Anthony Shahid on casenet, but not this felony assault of LE charge.

 

[reedus23]

Which group are you in?

Which group do you think?