MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #19

[reedus23]

Craig Cheatham @CheathamKMOV · 15m

St. Louis Co Prosecutor's office says it will decide what charges, if any, will be requested of GJ after receiving police investigation.

Isn't this a change in position? Weren't they criticized earlier about simply leaving it to the GJ to decide without any guidance as to what charges?

 

[katydid23]

View attachment 58980

Hey thanx---Been looking for a good pigs fly icon.....View attachment 58980

 

[reedus23]

I keep seeing people say that it should go trial even without a GJ indictment. So, we're willing to put an indictment on a potentially innocent man's record JUST to appease the squeaky wheels that demand it? The 'public' knows jury members CAN be swayed by public opinion before they're even selected to a jury. They're counting on that.

If no indictment is given, no trial should be had. Otherwise, what's the purpose of a GJ? It's to save taxpayers dollars and to ensure there is even evidence enough to go forward. JMO

You need to stop reading twitter. There are fools on both sides on there. I've seen the attorneys speak of an arrest pre-indictment but I haven't seen them say straight to trial. Even if arrested, it would still go through the GJ phase. OW would simply have an arrest record and would probably have to post bond.

 

[reedus23]

Would be very interesting to know what they based their opinion on. What do they know, what media have they read and watched, etc....


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I got a fair idea for the black respondents and for the white respondents.

 

[LambChop]

I don't know, but could OW use 5th amendment?

Not sure he has to. First of all isn't it standard practice that all police shootings that result in a death goes before the GJ? If that is true regardless of what Officer Wilson told his Chief it cannot be used against him because he was not arrested, nor read his rights from what we know. Could be that the Chief felt OW had probable cause to shoot MB because of his injuries and his statement. What backs up that belief is that it was reported that OW is no leave with pay. This is what you would think a PD would do when they felt the action of the police officer was justified. The union attorney may have advised OW not to complete the incident report because it is up to the State to prove Officer Wilson did not feel his life was threatened and therefore his use of force was excessive.

If the incident report is not completed there is nothing to release. jmo

 

[reedus23]

THe question for me and the question for you are not that important according to the statute. :wink:
It doesn't matter if we think the suspect posed a danger. What matters is what the 'reasonable' officer would think, in that moment. And given that OW had just been blindsided, shoved back into his vehicle, punched in the face, and had his own gun pointed towards him, in a life and death struggle, he is going to see MB as a deadly threat.

How would he know that the attacker was not a threat to the public? Why wouldn't he assume MB was dangerous, given what he had just experienced? It would seem that MB was desperate to avoid being searched and/or questioned. So OW would not know what the source of the desperation/urgency was. Maybe he was running from serious charges. Maybe he was having a mental breakdown. Maybe he just hated cops. OW could not know WHY MB was so violent, but he did know he was extremely dangerous.

I think some here are looking at what WE NOW KNOW in order to decide if MB was dangerous risk to the public. But we need to look at what OW knew at the time. Which was nothing except for what he had just experienced. He had not even searched him yet. He did not know for sure he was unarmed. He did not know his name or age. He did not know why MB attacked him. So how could he say he was NOT a danger to the public when he had just had to fight for his very life moments earlier?

Yes, you are right. I was putting myself in the shoes of a juror. Ultimately, they would be the ones determining if OW's beliefs were reasonable. I would say we don't know yet what OW thought of MB, but then again, I guess we already do.

Tell me the articulable threat at the time of the final shots? Was he waving a gun in the air? Was he wielding a machete? Did he have someone by the throat? Like I said, give me more than a theoretical threat. How was he posing an actual threat at the time of the fatal shots?

 

[Muffet]

Considering they have Holder's DOJ breathing down their necks and the FBI overseeing the investigation/running a parallel one of their own, it's hard to believe the police department is playing fast and loose with all these rules.

I haven't even seen the Brown's family lawyers make as many accusations of foul play as keyboard warriors all over the Web.

 

[LambChop]

Yes, you are right. I was putting myself in the shoes of a juror. Ultimately, they would be the ones determining if OW's beliefs were reasonable. I would say we don't know yet what OW thought of MB, but then again, I guess we already do.

Tell me the articulable threat at the time of the final shots? Was he waving a gun in the air? Was he wielding a machete? Did he have someone by the throat? Like I said, give me more than a theoretical threat. How was he posing an actual threat at the time of the fatal shots?

I believe the only person who could honestly tell us that is Officer Wilson because he is the only person who had direct eye contact with MB at the time. jmo

 

[dandy]

As I stated previously, I think "police reports" covers every piece of paper in an investigation, which would seem to include arrest, incident and investigative reports - much in the same vain as toxicology and autopsy reports. And as I stated earlier, the lack of release may not necessarily be in favor of DW.

i was wondering - if mbrown's juvenile record could also be included as an "investigative" report --- and for the reasons stated under the statute, the judge did not release it = it had nothing to do with the sunshine law.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, you are right. I was putting myself in the shoes of a juror. Ultimately, they would be the ones determining if OW's beliefs were reasonable. I would say we don't know yet what OW thought of MB, but then again, I guess we already do.

Tell me the articulable threat at the time of the final shots? Was he waving a gun in the air? Was he wielding a machete? Did he have someone by the throat? Like I said, give me more than a theoretical threat. How was he posing an actual threat at the time of the fatal shots?

He didn't need to be doing any of those things. His weapon used against OW was size and the element of surprise.

At the time of the final shots, he was moving towards the officer and noncompliant with orders to freeze.

There were two cops shot in PA last night, without any warning. Someone just drove by them and opened fire. Cops are aware of that kind of random assault 24/7. And OW had just experienced that. One second he is exiting his vehicle, and seconds later he is in a life and death struggle. So in his reasonable judgement, MB was trying to kill an officer, with no provocation.

Thus, MB was a very dangerous threat to ALL LEOS, as he had just tried to kill one, moments earlier. He was an actual threat to OW, and would be one to any passing officer. And OW knew had had others enroute. He couldnt let MB go and come upon one of them, who might have been unaware
of the potential lethal threat.

Also, OW did not know WHY MB was so desperate. So how would he know that MB would not carjack someone or take a hostage, in an effort to escape. If he was willing to fight over a cops holstered weapon, he was willing to do anything stupid.

Knpowing what we know now, we don't see MB as a threat to the locals. But OW did not have any of the info we have now.

 

[reedus23]

I think they have all been largely discredited by most logical thinkers who aren't invested in a particular outcome favorable to the Brown family, though that too is my opinion for anyone new to the thread. I agree, like myself, none of the groups you mentioned have simply written off the witness testimony of the three I mentioned, I am sure they gave them the benefit of the doubt up until the point they all impeach themselves rather swiftly. This video alone destroys Crenshaw's credibility. And then there is the question about Tiffany's car in Piaget's video and photos of the crime scene.

http://www.ksdk.com/videos/news/local/2014/08/13/14007133/

Please feel free to simply ignore great chunks of evidence. It really doesn't bother me one bit. I will continue to consider all of the evidence and give it whatever weight it does or doesn't deserve. And no, that doesn't mean they are ultimately 100% accurate in their accounts. I agree, anyone that blindly follows their accounts is also being illogical, but no more illogical of a thinker than one who simply tosses the entirety of witness testimony to the wind. And not saying you're doing that.

 

[cady]

I believe the only person who could honestly tell us that is Officer Wilson because he is the only person who had direct eye contact with MB at the time. jmo

Right. And it would certainly be helpful for him and for us if he had written and signed an incident report...somewhat contemporaneous with the homicide. Getting his eye fracture fixed and ducks in order and consultation with the chief and Union advisor prevented that, though. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Right. And it would certainly be helpful for him and for us if he had written and signed an incident report...somewhat contemporaneous with the homicide. Getting his eye fracture fixed and ducks in order and consultation with the chief and Union advisor prevented that, though. JMO

BBM

Although I agree it would have been helpful for US,I doubt it would have been helpful for HIM if he had filled out an incident report and released it early on. He was and is still facing potential murder charges. Only a fool would fill out a written report without first consulting his attorney and union reps.

 

[katydid23]

Please feel free to simply ignore great chunks of evidence. It really doesn't bother me one bit. I will continue to consider all of the evidence and give it whatever weight it does or doesn't deserve. And no, that doesn't mean they are ultimately 100% accurate in their accounts. I agree, anyone that blindly follows their accounts is also being illogical, but no more illogical of a thinker than one who simply tosses the entirety of witness testimony to the wind. And not saying you're doing that.

' great chunks of evidence?' ummmm, not really, imo.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Right. And it would certainly be helpful for him and for us if he had written and signed an incident report...somewhat contemporaneous with the homicide. Getting his eye fracture fixed and ducks in order and consultation with the chief and Union advisor prevented that, though. JMO

I think it's possible that officer Wilson gave a written statement soon after the shooting. If he did, his injuries may have had an affect on what he wrote.

That's something to consider IMO.

 

[Frydaddy]

Please feel free to simply ignore great chunks of evidence. It really doesn't bother me one bit. I will continue to consider all of the evidence and give it whatever weight it does or doesn't deserve. And no, that doesn't mean they are ultimately 100% accurate in their accounts. I agree, anyone that blindly follows their accounts is also being illogical, but no more illogical of a thinker than one who simply tosses the entirety of witness testimony to the wind. And not saying you're doing that.

Which chunks should I consider exactly, please show me that which I am ignoring. Start with Crenshaw and Mitchell...what "evidence" in their testimony is legit to you specifically?

 

[reedus23]

I believe the only person who could honestly tell us that is Officer Wilson because he is the only person who had direct eye contact with MB at the time. jmo

Possibly right. But until I hear his statement or evidence put on by his lawyers to that affect, I'm not going to just assume it's so. Somewhere down the road we'll have a better idea, but to give an opinion at this stage in the game...I have heard nothing to suggest he created an immediate threat to the public.

 

[katydid23]

Has this country gone insane?
I can not believe the flagrant disrespect for law enforcement, never seen anything like it in my life!
Watching that "actress" toss out the race card when simply asked to show her ID?
WHAT?
I've been asked for my ID plenty of times...I comply! What's the big friggin deal? Police have a hard, thankless, low paying and dangerous job ...why must morons make their job harder????


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I was just driving and heard the arresting cop on KFI radio. He played a tape recording he made of what she was saying to him. She was acting NUTZ. And the complaint was called in by the employees of the Directors Guild, that they were having sex in the car, with the passenger door open. :slap:

The officer kept saying that he was planning to spend 5 minutes on the call, give them a warning, and move on. But her craziness factored it up to a 3o minute drama. She kept saying she was calling her 'publicist.' LOL Only in LA. :dramaqueen:

 

[katydid23]

Possibly right. But until I hear his statement or evidence put on by his lawyers to that affect, I'm not going to just assume it's so. Somewhere down the road we'll have a better idea, but to give an opinion at this stage in the game...I have heard nothing to suggest he created an immediate threat to the public.

Ha. I am not sure how you could come to that conclusion. He assaulted TWO PEOPLE within 30 minutes, one in which a gun was fired. How is he not an immediate threat to the public?

 

[LambChop]

Right. And it would certainly be helpful for him and for us if he had written and signed an incident report...somewhat contemporaneous with the homicide. Getting his eye fracture fixed and ducks in order and consultation with the chief and Union advisor prevented that, though. JMO

It has been a long time but not sure things have changed all that much. Police take notes at the scene, if possible. If not, then shortly afterwards. I believe it was reported that Officer Wilson gave his account verbally. Any notes they take are then used when they write up their incident report. It is not always the same day. Given the threats OW was receiving that process for him stopped via advice from his attorney, I might imagine. Officer Wilson is entitled to the same rights as anyone else.

That is my belief regarding why they have not released his portion of the incident report. It could be because it never was completed by Officer Wilson. The Chief cannot give reporters something that is not there. jmo