MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #19

[Lovejac]

tweet that to the fav hash tags :lol:

There are some angry tweeters tonight!

 

[LambChop]

Officer Wilson's medical records have not been released. Any link that states otherwise should be considered rumor. I believe the only information we have is that the Chief reported Officer Wilson was taken to the hospital for facial injuries. And that is about it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ferguson-shooting-grand-jury-decide-october-charge-cop/story?id=25047905

 

[tlcya]

So is that an indication that it looks as if they will not be charging him????

I am taking that as an indication they are certainly not ready to charge him at this time and therefore have been afforded more time to deliberate on the evidence in light of their terms ending very soon. If their terms were ended before being able to reach a decision what would that mean? Would the evidence then have to be re-presented to the incoming jurors? Seems to me that this extension is at the very least an indication that the GJ does not see this as a black or white (not race) yes or no, clear cut case and are taking their time examining the grey areas of this particular shooting. Are the jurors torn? Who knows? JMO

 

[reedus23]

' great chunks of evidence?' ummmm, not really, imo.

Not sure what you're saying. Eye witness testimony isn't considered evidence?

 

[Lovejac]

So is that an indication that it looks as if they will not be charging him????

Great question. I wonder this too.

 

[Muffet]

David Carson ‏@PDPJ 1m
Grand jury now has until January to decide whether to charge Ferguson officer: http://bit.ly/1wxGKvy via @STLtoday

Oh dear God..............January? :thud:

[emoji37]

:facepalm:

Just got a twitchy eye and the start of a migraine.

My first thought is "I can't follow this case that long!"

Second thought: "Waiting until after November elections?"

Seriously, why? Many possibilities, but they're all depressing, AFAICT.

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[Deleted member 39678]

Well, yes, but the latest articles that I saw linked here stated that there was no orbital fracture. There was some swelling on the face, supposedly, but since I have not seen with my own two eyes the alleged "beating", I am waiting to decide on justifiable homicide.

Maybe officer Wilson didn't suffer an orbital fracture but was still beaten enough to cause memory issues. That's all I'm wondering about.

 

[tlcya]

So I just kinda had my mind blown in another "place" online. No link I can provide but I do think it is appropriate to discuss here. Anyway, a theory was put forth that perhaps DJ really never saw much of anything at all, because he ran for the hills the minute this went down. Then when he made his way back, he came upon the grassy knoll discussions about hands up etc and picked up from there. So in other words, I had originally thought that DJ had started the chorus but what if he slinked back to check the status of what was going on and heard this narrative and figured that was his best way to get out of the trouble he may have been in after the robbery and the initial assault. Hmmmm....

Interesting speculation, I must admit.

 

[EvilSoup]

I don't know how to directly link to documents on Scribd. But there is an interesting document called: "General Order 406.00 - Ferguson Police Department Policy on Incident Reports"

I don't belong to or subscribe to Scribd but I do have the app so I can read things. If I go to scribd.com, I can enter "General Order 406.00" in the search box and the document will appear near the top in a short list of items.

It doesn't seem to me like the Ferguson Police Department has followed its own policies in this case. Of course I could be wrong, i could be misreading the policies.

I have a ScribD subscription and I read the doc and you are correct. I wish there were a way to copy and paste a pdf, but that also might be not kosher since access to the docs is a paid privilege.

But. Yeah, not following protocol at all.

 

[popsicle]

I don't know how to directly link to documents on Scribd. But there is an interesting document called: "General Order 406.00 - Ferguson Police Department Policy on Incident Reports"

I don't belong to or subscribe to Scribd but I do have the app so I can read things. If I go to scribd.com, I can enter "General Order 406.00" in the search box and the document will appear near the top in a short list of items.

It doesn't seem to me like the Ferguson Police Department has followed its own policies in this case. Of course I could be wrong, i could be misreading the policies.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/237642655...rguson-Police-Dept-Policy-on-Incident-Reports

 

[reedus23]

Ha. I am not sure how you could come to that conclusion. He assaulted TWO PEOPLE within 30 minutes, one in which a gun was fired. How is he not an immediate threat to the public?

Ok, tell me the person in threat of harm. Not even a name, who was he specifically and articulably threatening and tell me exactly what he was doing or saying to them that created that threat? I completely understand your desire to use events that happened previously to try to justify future actions but I have not heard one single thing that MB posed a threat to the public at that moment in time.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Not sure what you're saying. Eye witness testimony isn't considered evidence?

I feel that eye witness testimony is generally unreliable. It's evidence but I don't give it as much weight as something like ballistics, DNA or fingerprints.

 

[EvilSoup]

Maybe officer Wilson didn't suffer an orbital fracture but was still beaten enough to cause memory issues. That's all I'm wondering about.

I was speaking to the misreporting being taken as gospel.

Many jumped on this hyperbole as fact. With zero proof.

IMO, OW was not dazed or otherwise compromised by his injuries. I think he was a poor shot because his target was running towards him. But I really do not buy that OW was horrifically beaten. We would have seen proof by now.

And, IMO, OW's reasonable fear would still be reasonable even if he was not facially assaulted. I just don't understand the need to exaggerate and manufacture injuries when the officer was within his rights to shoot to kill anyway.

I think they were padding the nest in case the "reasonable" thing came under scrutiny. I think speaking the truth is always the better way to go.

I guess we shall see.

 

[reedus23]

BBM

Even if you only heed the witnesses who are being used to discredit Wilson's defense, MB was moving toward OW at that time.

Add in the two workers, who are being called "game-changers" by the MB side, and you have MB advancing on OW as OW was backing up.

It would be beyond foolhardy to interpret someone's advancing upon you, while you're trying to keep space between you as benign.

Add in the multitude of circumstances, and I cannot fathom how anyone could consider OW's perceiving MB as a threat to be unreasonable.






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I'm not saying such a belief is reasonable or unreasonable. I'm saying coming to the conclusion right now that it was reasonable and anyone coming to a different conclusion are illogical is foolhardy. Right now, there is a helluva lot more cutting against OW than there is in his favor as far as actual statements from actual witnesses. I suspect in time that will change.

 

[nothingnew]

Yes, you are right. I was putting myself in the shoes of a juror. Ultimately, they would be the ones determining if OW's beliefs were reasonable. I would say we don't know yet what OW thought of MB, but then again, I guess we already do.

Tell me the articulable threat at the time of the final shots? Was he waving a gun in the air? Was he wielding a machete? Did he have someone by the throat? Like I said, give me more than a theoretical threat. How was he posing an actual threat at the time of the fatal shots?

Mentally unstable.

 

[katydid23]

Not sure what you're saying. Eye witness testimony isn't considered evidence?

Not always taken as credible evidence when it is contradictory, or one does not see the entire incident, or the story changes throughout. Or when people discuss the incident among themselves as a group, BEFORE testifying to their version. Which is why LE always separates witnesses before asking them for their statements.

 

[EvilSoup]

I feel that eye witness testimony is generally unreliable. It's evidence but I don't give it as much weight as something like ballistics, DNA or fingerprints.

But most of the eyewitness testimony favor OW. They mostly say MB came at OW.

Many people are behind OW based on those eyewitnesses, including Josie.

If we discount them, and we have been given NO other evidence to consider, then we are unable to form any opinions based on anything other than guessing.

 

[reedus23]

David Carson ‏@PDPJ 1m
Grand jury now has until January to decide whether to charge Ferguson officer: http://bit.ly/1wxGKvy via @STLtoday

The longer this drags out the better. At least as far as the violence goes. Here on the other hand, we ran out of issues to discuss 4 weeks ago. Now we just rehash the same stuff over and over. Myself included.

One side - Will defend OW to the death regardless of what is presented to the contrary
Other side - Want OW convicted without a trial
Yet others - Just gonna have to wait until January now

And I don't anticipate anything coming out in the next 4 months to change anyone's perspectives.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh dear God..............January? :thud:

I'm thrilled....it's very cold in January





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[Muffet]

Well, yes, but the latest articles that I saw linked here stated that there was no orbital fracture. There was some swelling on the face, supposedly, but since I have not seen with my own two eyes the alleged "beating", I am waiting to decide on justifiable homicide.

BBM

I've too seen people say that "there was no orbital fracture," but my understanding was that the orbital fracture report was just "not confirmed".

Not that it makes a big difference to the bottom line imo, but for the sake of clarity, and since I might have missed an announcement somewhere...
Does anybody have a link that clarifies what exactly was "confirmed false" vs "not confirmed true"?



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