MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #19

[Linda7NJ]

BBM. Officer Darren Wilson and Michael Brown were not citizen equals in that encounter. This is not the same as two young men in a bar brawl. The law makes that QUITE clear. This is not about 2 young hotheads posturing and punching, fueled by beer and testosterone. They were NOT equals in that encounter. Officer Wilson is a sworn, uniformed, on duty, peace officer. Officer Wilson was not "picking a fight" when he encountered MB and DJ walking in the middle of the street, as he was diverted from a sick call.

I've been noticing a huge shift in our culture....the ability to respect authority is lacking.
Why so many feel they are "equals" with those in a position of authority over them. Teachers, bosses, police....
It's a truly frightening trend!





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[K_Z]

I have said again and again, I will likely never feel I "know" the exact sequence of events that happened through the window or inside the car. Is it so hard to understand I think both OW and the kid closest to it will both twist it a bit to be self serving? I am cynical- and also- done with being grilled on this point.

MOO

Well, as far as my opinion on this, about the only time I think it MIGHT be appropriate for me to stick my head and torso inside the open window of a police vehicle with a uniformed officer at the wheel, is if I thought the officer at the wheel was unconscious, or not breathing. And then I'd have observed a bit to make sure he or she wasn't just taking a little cat nap! I can see respiratory effort, color, etc without even sticking my torso in the window, long as there is broad daylight! Oh-- and I can call out, "are you ok?" Anyway, that's just me and my opinion.

 

[Truthy]

OKay, so let me try and figure out who touched who first? What was MB doing 15 minutes prior to the incident? OW was trying to help a family whose 2 month old was having breathing problems. I don't think OW was acting aggressively or belligerently in that time period. What was MB doing? Oh yeah, assaulting a little old shop owner and stealing blunt wraps, then walking home down the middle of the street, carrying the stolen wraps proudly, while refusing OW's directives to step onto the sidewalk. MB says we will get out of the road when we feel like it.

So which one of these two was the aggressor, judging from the previous 20 minutes behavior patterns?

Which story makes more sense? Dorians? Does it make sense that OW leaves the sick call, and 2 minutes later pulls up on the 2 and decides to try and pull a 300 lb man into his lap through the car window?

Or does Josies version sound more truthful? That OW stepped out of the car and MB rushed him and shoved him back in, like a linebacker?

I think I know which one I believe. Which one do you believe, only with what you know so far.

Interesting and thoughtfully posed- thank you for that.
But I've seen to many people calm and composed one minute, and batchit crazy the next to feel like 5 minutes prior is any predictor.
I am quite sincere in saying I do not know. Please respect that and we can move on. Thanks!

 

[katydid23]

And if I were patrolling in a crime ridden, gang infested neighborhood, YES, I would ASSUME all citizens are armed, until proven otherwise! But that's just me.

Not only do you assume that everyone is armed, but you also have to assume that everyone that you stop, wants to kill you. That is what my son was taught in doing his job. He has to look at every interaction as potentially an explosive one, until he learns otherwise. He is wearing a bulletproof vest and a gun for a reason.

 

[Truthy]

BBM

So you do have some opinions. I highlighted them.

Other than those, you are unable or unwilling to draw any logical conclusions as to whether OW believed that MB was a threat to himself or others?

Thanks.

Ha ha- well it is also my opinion - or best guess so far!- that I will never know the truth of those first moments of their encounter and why it escalated.
It would be an awesome if forensics could actually tell us that, but I imagine that is too much to hope for. MOO.

 

[JLSChook]

I said nothing about justifying riots or looting. Please do not misrepresent what I said.



I answered in full.
I do not jump to conclusions based on little more than what I consider to be gossip and no physical evidence and no reports at all, but feel free to do so yourself.
Tempers flared and why or who touched who first- I will likely never comfortably know the truth. To me, that is more interesting. But I have no need to tie a bow on the whole thing right now. I hate going to the movies when you know how it will end.
It is as simple as that. YMMV. MOO.

This isn't a movie or TV show. It's real life. A police officer was brutally assaulted and was fighting for his life and had no choice but to kill MB because of MB's actions that day.
That's the sad reality for Officer Wilson, his family and the family of Mike Brown. I'm sure they all wish it was a bad movie.

 

[K_Z]

Ha ha- well it is also my opinion - or best guess so far!- that I will never know the truth of those first moments of their encounter and why it escalated.
It would be an awesome if forensics could actually tell us that, but I imagine that is too much to hope for. MOO.

Could you agree that it isn't important "why" it escalated, only that it DID escalate? And by the direct actions of MB?

 

[katydid23]

Truthy, THANK YOU. I don;t want you to feel piled upon or anything. I know you are sincere. :wave:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm wondering if without a video, some are not capable of forming opinions....?
How sad that's the standard that's now expected by a small chunk of society.
Between folks expecting video and the CSI Effect having them expecting DNA it's becoming a criminals paradise. IMO
That's pretty frightening too.


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[hambirg]

Not only do you assume that everyone is armed, but you also have to assume that everyone that you stop, wants to kill you. That is what my son was taught in doing his job. He has to look at every interaction as potentially an explosive one, until he learns otherwise. He is wearing a bulletproof vest and a gun for a reason.

Absolutely! They are trained to think tactically.

Have a plan and "what if" every contact age 8 to 80.

Smile, be professional, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet

 

[Truthy]

Could you agree that it isn't important "why" it escalated, only that it DID escalate? And by the direct actions of MB?

The "first moments" I mentioned are the how of it. The how is most important in my estimation, but as I said I doubt we will ever know the full truth. MOO.
Yes, I am that cynical. And moving off this topic now- thanks.

 

[K_Z]

I've been noticing a huge shift in our culture....the ability to respect authority is lacking.
Why so many feel they are "equals" with those in a position of authority over them. Teachers, bosses, police....
It's a truly frightening trend!

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I agree, Linda7NJ. It's really a huge problem, nationwide. And IMO, the root of the problem lies with how parent/s choose to parent, or NOT parent, their children. And we can't fix that, IMO. All of us have an equal right to breed (or adopt), and then screw up our children, lol!

 

[Truthy]

Truthy, THANK YOU. I don;t want you to feel piled upon or anything. I know you are sincere. :wave:

Thank you, I do know your question was sincere. I am really good at agreeing to disagree, I think dissent can be interesting. Not always though!:drumroll:

:wave:

 

[K_Z]

Thank you, I do know your question was sincere. I am really good at agreeing to disagree, I think dissent can be interesting. Not always though!:drumroll:

:wave:

OT. And my baby kitten likes your licking kitty. Keeps pawing at the screen!

 

[katydid23]

Thank you, I do know your question was sincere. I am really good at agreeing to disagree, I think dissent can be interesting. Not always though!:drumroll:

:wave:

Hey we agree on something...time for ....[ Curious Guys Pigs Fly icon]

 

[Dana]

I'm wondering if without a video, some are not capable of forming opinions....?
How sad that's the standard that's now expected by a small chunk of society.
Between folks expecting video and the CSI Effect having them expecting DNA it's becoming a criminals paradise. IMO
That's pretty frightening too.


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LOL a video. Even that, everyone would see it differently. What we have is a ton of armchair detectives who in the comfort of their home saying that THEY wouldn't do that or he should have done this all in just seconds.

I find it incredulous that some write off the 'tussle' in the SUV as no big thing, as if it's perfectly normal to tussle with .

I also find it incredulous that the MB attorneys and the police say there was a SERIOUS altercation in the SUV but some overlook that.

Both the MB attorneys and the police stated that MB grabbed for the gun and it was fired yet some feel it's a rumor.

I also find it incredulous that BOTH MB attorneys and the Police have stated that OW had a serious facial injury yet some believe that's also a rumor.

WOW!!! My eyes are rolling out of my face lol

Why in the world would both MB family attorneys and the Police say the same thing if it wasn't true?

So now, we have a serious altercation and grabbing an officers gun (ACCORDING TO MB FAMILY ATTORNEYS AND POLICE). I'm going on the ASSUMPTION that OW doesn't know MB personally so any FOOL that would fight physically with a cop and grab his gun is EXTREMELY crazy and dangerous. Then to top all that off, with my tiny brain, I listen to the eyewitnesses who most claim that MB advanced on OW which caused OW to shoot and kill MB.

I suppose this is all complete fantasy.................. *groan*


--BTW Linda, ITA with you about society, most lacking respect for authority. Truly sad.

 

[katydid23]

Absolutely! They are trained to think tactically.

Have a plan and "what if" every contact age 8 to 80.

Smile, be professional, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet

I think that is one of the major problems when the various sides try to discuss police shootings like this, where someone grapples with an officers gun.

LEO's get it drilled into their heads, day in and day out, that one of the most deadly situations FOR THEM, is being shot by their own weapons. Staring on the first day of their training, they will be working on ways to prevent and counteract that crisis situation. They do that drill hundreds and hundreds of times in various situations. It becomes second nature.

So once a person, big or small, young or old, drunk or sober, tries in any serious fashion to go for their holstered weapon, IT'S ON> The cop is going into automatic mode. If there is a serious struggle where the gun is actually pointed at the officer at any point, and the gun actually shoots---whoaaaa

Bad move on the suspects part. Hard to walk away from that unless they instantly go limp and become totally compliant.

 

[Truthy]

OT. And my baby kitten likes your licking kitty. Keeps pawing at the screen!

My cat Patsy jumps on my shoulder to watch video to watch along with me whenever he hears audio coming out of this lap top.
If it's two people talking his head goes back and forth and it appears he is trying to follow the conversation! Cats can't do that, can they?

 

[Linda7NJ]

LOL a video. Even that, everyone would see it differently. What we have is a ton of armchair detectives who in the comfort of their home saying that THEY wouldn't do that or he should have done this all in just seconds.

I find it incredulous that some write off the 'tussle' in the SUV as no big thing, as if it's perfectly normal to tussle with .

I also find it incredulous that the MB attorneys and the police say there was a SERIOUS altercation in the SUV but some overlook that.

Both the MB attorneys and the police stated that MB grabbed for the gun and it was fired yet some feel it's a rumor.

I also find it incredulous that BOTH MB attorneys and the Police have stated that OW had a serious facial injury yet some believe that's also a rumor.

WOW!!! My eyes are rolling out of my face lol

Why in the world would both MB family attorneys and the Police say the same thing if it wasn't true?

So now, we have a serious altercation and grabbing an officers gun (ACCORDING TO MB FAMILY ATTORNEYS AND POLICE). I'm going on the ASSUMPTION that OW doesn't know MB personally so any FOOL that would fight physically with a cop and grab his gun is EXTREMELY crazy and dangerous. Then to top all that off, with my tiny brain, I listen to the eyewitnesses who most claim that MB advanced on OW which caused OW to shoot and kill MB.

I suppose this is all complete fantasy.................. *groan*


--BTW Linda, ITA with you about society, most lacking respect for authority. Truly sad.

I'll pray your eyelids can continue to hold your eyeballs in their sockets!



I had to retrieve one of my own as it rolled under my bed this evening!



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[sonjay]

If I were on the GJ and I was fearful for my safety if we came back with a "no bill" I'd beg the judge for the maximum time available to release the information to the public.

And just maybe .... by not having a date certain that everyone knows the GJ will be done... the GJ can finish its job and get out of Dodge before their decision is announced.