MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #2

[katydid23]

at the same time, doesnt it seem crazy that this guy with no criminal record is going to assault a cop and try to get his gun, presumably to kill him as many have suggested, over being stopped for either jaywalking or stealing from a store?

you could argue that he knew he was wanted for a felony crime but honestly, this crime when they were caught would never have been prosecuted as a felony, and its pretty questionable whether or not he would have been under the impression he was in big serious trouble if caught.

I am waiting for the tox report because I am pretty sure the victim was high. I think the cigars were needed to make 'special' cigar blends that some kids like to smoke. He might not have been in a rational head space. Ergo, the stupid move he made in the market right in front of the surveillance cameras.

I worked in South Central LOs Angeles for 10 yrs. I tutored kids who were on the verge of flunking/dropping out of school. Many were gang members. They did STUPID things lots of times, without thinking it through. They'd punch teachers over nothing. Break into cars, knowing there were cameras on them at the time. Lots of confrontational attitude, even with our armed campus cops. So it would not surprise me at all if he suddenly began scuffling over the cops gun. Doesnt mean he intended to shoot him, but he might have thought he could grab it and then get away from him. Kids often make STUPID choices when under stress.

 

[popsicle]

FOX2now ‏@FOX2now 10m
Teams of FBI agents will be in Ferguson to speak with anyone who has not yet come forward with information. #crisisinferguson

 

[katydid23]

regardless of the level of mystery surrounding his lack of a criminal record, the fact still remains that he had none and im sure he was aware of that fact, do you agree?

We dont know if he had one or not. Juvenile records are sealed. And if you look at how he acted in that store, it is hard to believe he was someone who regularly followed 'the rules.' jmo

 

[bwt42]

at the same time, doesnt it seem crazy that this guy with no criminal record is going to assault a cop and try to get his gun, presumably to kill him as many have suggested, over being stopped for either jaywalking or stealing from a store?

you could argue that he knew he was wanted for a felony crime but honestly, this crime when they were caught would never have been prosecuted as a felony, and its pretty questionable whether or not he would have been under the impression he was in big serious trouble if caught.

You could be right. If you don't prosecute, you can keep the crime rate low.

 

[liljim]

We dont know if he had one or not. Juvenile records are sealed. And if you look at how he acted in that store, it is hard to believe he was someone who regularly followed 'the rules.' jmo

ahh i didnt think i had to state it so specifically but sure obviously his juvenile record would be sealed so in this context i would be referring to his adult record...

 

[CHERIE.T]

Yes, they are.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_e9b5412f-2283-512e-8636-0d2bbe958c5c.html

In a 6-3 opinion, the court held that “deadly force may not be used unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer had probable cause to believe that the suspect posed a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.”

bumping

 

[MyBelle]

I am waiting for the tox report because I am pretty sure the victim was high. I think the cigars were needed to make 'special' cigar blends that some kids like to smoke. He might not have been in a rational head space. Ergo, the stupid move he made in the market right in front of the surveillance cameras.

I worked in South Central LOs Angeles for 10 yrs. I tutored kids who were on the verge of flunking/dropping out of school. Many were gang members. They did STUPID things lots of times, without thinking it through. They'd punch teachers over nothing. Break into cars, knowing there were cameras on them at the time. Lots of confrontational attitude, even with our armed campus cops. So it would not surprise me at all if he suddenly began scuffling over the cops gun. Doesnt mean he intended to shoot him, but he might have thought he could grab it and then get away from him. Kids often make STUPID choices when under stress.

BBM. ITA. Brown reacted because he KNEW he had just committed a strong-arm robbery and would be in prison a long time. I've worked in a school in a youth prison. Men under the age of 25 and teens convicted in adult court. Gangs were, by far, the worst problem because the battles continue behind bars. One of the techniques teen gang members use is strong-arm tactics to intimidate. Brown was caught on camera doing it.

JMO

 

[liljim]

BBM. ITA. Brown reacted because he KNEW he had just committed a strong-arm robbery and would be in prison a long time. I've worked in a school in a youth prison. Men under the age of 25 and teens convicted in adult court. Gangs were, by far, the worst problem because the battles continue behind bars. One of the techniques teen gang members use is strong-arm tactics to intimidate. Brown was caught on camera doing it.

JMO

in my opinion, there is no way he gets jail time for that if he surrenders when the cop rolls up to him, not a chance.

 

[MyBelle]

you are correct, but regardless of why he had no record, im sure he was aware he had no record. do you agree?

panicking imo would be to run, attacking a cop and trying to get his gun and kill him is not panicking, that is going completely insane.

might be what happened tho...

I doubt his lack of a record was on Brown's mind. I think it more likely the fact that he had just knocked-off a liquor store and didn't want to go to prison was more on his mind.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

in my opinion, there is no way he gets jail time for that if he surrenders when the cop rolls up to him, not a chance.

That might be your opinion but our prisons are full of 18-year-olds convicted of strong-arm robbery. And they had Brown on security video. No Judge is going to give a 'get out of jail free pass' to a violent criminal.

JMO

 

[liljim]

That might be your opinion but our prisons are full of 18-year-olds convicted of strong-arm robbery. And they had Brown on security video. No Judge is going to give a 'get out of jail free pass' to a violent criminal.

JMO

just to be clear, it is your OPINION (please provide a link or a study if otherwise) that a first time offender would get a long time (your words) in prison for the crime we see him commit on the surveillance video?

thanx for clarifying.

 

[SwampMama]

MB is 6ft3 and muscular, and he 'pushed' a little old man up against a wall for trying to stop him from STEALING a box of cigars. He bullied and intimidated that clerk. How would YOU like to work in a store and have some big shove you around and steal stuff from your store? That was a bad move on MB's part. If that clerk had continued to argue he would have been hurt, I have no doubts. STRONG ARMED ROBBERIES ARE A FELONY.

It does not matter whether the cop was aware that these were the 2 suspects. In fact, it made the situation way more dangerous for the officer. He was just telling some teens to get out of the street. If he had known they just robbed a market then he would have been in a more alert state of mind. I am sure he was not expecting this big teen to suddenly fight him so hard. And I think that is why MB is dead. His OWN choices lead him down that tragic path, imo.

BBM. Indeed it was MB who put a lot of this into action. The video shows very clearly that he boldly and aggressively took what he wanted. There was no attempt to hide his identity or to steal them without the clerk knowing. Then having just committed a felony, he did not attempt to lay low and not bring attention to himself. Instead he walked down the middle of the street when the officer saw him and told them to get out of the street, which they obviously did not do. They had no intention of being cooperative.

The cop was about to go on his way when something caused him to back up and re-engage with MB again. I doubt it was because the cop suddenly decided it was time to kill an innocent law abiding citizen. At this point we know that MB had been a bold and aggressive thief who then decided to call attention to himself by walking down the middle of the street, being told to get out of the street and blatantly disregarding the cop's directive to get out of the road. Why was he being so provocative? It's like he was daring someone to challenge him.

It was MB who was apparently in an aggressive, provocative and unlawful mood. It's almost as if he were daring someone to confront him. I find his behavior very puzzling and certainly not the actions of a "gentle giant".

I am not saying he deserved what happened or any other claims. i am simply stating that he seemed to be in an bold and provocative mood based upon his behaviors just prior to the confrontation.

 

[katydid23]

ahh i didnt think i had to state it so specifically but sure obviously his juvenile record would be sealed so in this context i would be referring to his adult record...

But he has only been an adult for a matter of months...so....?

 

[liljim]

But he has only been an adult for a matter of months...so....?

i acknowledged this point in a post right after but it doesnt change the fact that many seem to want to try to deny or ignore - he had no adult record.

 

[MyBelle]

But he has only been an adult for a matter of months...so....?

There seems to be some misconception that an adult who commits a violent crime gets some kind of free pass if it is their first offense. I just don't see any Judge ignoring video evidence of violence.

 

[SwampMama]

just to be clear, it is your OPINION (please provide a link or a study if otherwise) that a first time offender would get a long time (your words) in prison for the crime we see him commit on the surveillance video?

thanx for clarifying.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/1...ar-prison-term-for-stealing-52-cent-doughnut/
FARMINGTON, Mo. – A Park Hills man..... has been charged with felony second-degree robbery after ... he slipped a 52-cent doughnut into his sweat shirt without paying ..., then pushed away a clerk who tried to stop him as he fled the store.

The push is being treated as minor assault, which transforms a misdemeanor shoplifting charge to a strong-armed robbery with a potential prison term of five to 15 years. Given Masters' criminal past, prosecutors could boost that sentence to 30 years to life.

http://www.justanswer.com/criminal-law/31qun-what-s-minimum-sentencing-strong-armed-robbery.html
(based on New Jersey laws)

"An individual arrested or indicted for robbery in the second degree (strong-armed robbery) is exposed to 5 to 10 years of jail. Any prison term imposed for robbery in NJ is also subject to the No Early Release Act ("NERA"). NERA mandates that an individual serve at least 85% of his or her prison term before they are eligible for parole."

http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-157841.html
"my husband is up for strong armed robbery in new jersey he was sentenced to 10 years with 85%"

http://thetandd.com/news/local/man-...cle_6ab1e1b8-1a69-11e2-9d3e-0019bb2963f4.html
Rakeen Jereal Jordan White, 20, of 18 Robin Court, Williston, pleaded guilty to strong-arm robbery. He was sentenced to 15 years in prison.

Granted none of these is exactly what MB did, it is just a general gathering of a few quick cases that I found.

 

[Trident]

And if the nearly 300 pound Michael Brown had killed the small store clerk (which could easily have happened), there would have been NO mention in the national media. None at all.

No demonstrations in protest either.

Nor any Justice, as per usual, in cases like that.

My opinion only

 

[Frydaddy]

in my opinion, there is no way he gets jail time for that if he surrenders when the cop rolls up to him, not a chance.

Could be he just didn't want to disappoint his mother...she claimed her son "doesn't kill, steal or rob". Or maybe he saw his future going down the drain. Jail time is not the only way a young man's life goes south, having a record alone can make things tough for a teenager. He might have been covering for Johnson holding weed. There are many ways to speculate on the kid's mindset, not sure why you'd lean to the most innocent possible with the robbery and assault, the BOLO, the stolen property, and the officers injury from the obvious scuffle.

 

[katydid23]

i acknowledged this point in a post right after but it doesnt change the fact that many seem to want to try to deny or ignore - he had no adult record.

It does not mean much at all that he had no ADULT record if he had only been an adult for months. :waitasec:

And get real---you saw the video. Does it look like it was the first time he broke the law? He looks pretty comfortable stealing merchandise and thern slamming an old man against the wall. I don't think this was his first rodeo.

Not only that, but after stealing the cigars, he walks down the middle of the street, reportedly holding up traffic. And when cop car rolls up and tells them to get on the sidewalk, THEY KEEP WALKING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. WTH? Why so brash and bold?

Nah, he was not a timid, innocent schoolboy walking to Grandma's. :no:

 

[sorrell skye]

How many days ago was Antonio French arrested and then released without charges? I think it was two days ago. He's still giving MSM interviews about his arrest. I just saw him give an interview on Fox (via cable, so no link) about his arrest.

Although I vehemently oppose unlawful detention of law-abiding citizens, I think some folks want to make this story about themselves.

The Washington Post journalist (Wesley Lowery) who was arrested that same day (two days ago) and then released without charges made it a point to say afterward that he didn't want the story to be about him. He said he wanted the reporting to focus on Michael Brown and the police response to the demonstrations.