MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #20

[popsicle]

Bizarre shooting in Savannah, GA where black suspect was handcuffed behind his back, placed in cruiser, kicked out window, escaped, and was shot dead because he supposedly had a gun. Protests followed, but the protest leader, the NAACP prez, claims it won't be like Ferguson and offers a sort of "We'll show y'all how these things should be done" promise.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaki...-in-wake-of-savannah-sho/nhQ4d/?__federated=1

I was going to start a thread on that case tonight but have been too busy. They protested today.

 

[reedus23]

It was a shock to me because of what I had been reading. MB was a recent high school graduate, getting ready to start college and was shot dead in the street in broad daylight while he was walking to his grandmothers' house.

I was outraged because this poor guy had struggled to get his diploma, was trying to better his life and he loved his grandmother. It was just so sad. I bought what the media was selling without researching to make my own decision. They got me hook, line and sinker.

I can get that. And ya feel burned by it because it wasn't true. I don't think I ever gave much attention to that stuff. To me, it doesn't matter if he's a "gentle giant" or not. While if that were true, it too would paint that background for me, it doesn't answer the question of justification either.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Cops don't get to just shoot people because they are miscreants. There are countless people who have done the same or worse. Doesn't give carte blanch to shoot them. The threat to the public has to be an articulable threat at the time of the shooting, not some generalized threat of "Well he's a gang banger so it wouldn't shock me if he carjacked someone." To me, an articulable threat is, he has a gun, he's verbally threatening people, he's doing something in that moment in time of the fatal shots that created an articulable or immediate threat to someone else.

And for the obvious but ironic part....ask all the residents of Canfield Apartments who posed a bigger threat to them, MB or OW? Who did they fear more? Yes, I know, completely irrelevant from a legal perspective, but from a societal point of view, it is pretty ironic.

That would depend. Ask the patron in the store that called the police to report a robbery, ask the shop keeper, ask anyone whose business was destroyed, ask the people that were SHOT while peaceful protesting.
I think it would depend on who you ask.



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[SnoopyDawgDawg]

You should be sainted for that :blowkiss:

 

[Lovejac]

Well actually I think it was frydaddy that first determined it was actually closer to 130 feet. I don't know if it's rumors. People, including frydaddy, have looked at photos of where the vehicle was and where MB's body was and was able to measure it. I would be more than willing to literally go out with a tape measure though some time this weekend. Not being snarky. Being serious. If it would help, I would do it.

BBM

Umm, NO!

Please don't.

 

[Lovejac]

View attachment 59420

:hilarious: That is so awesome! It looks great on her :wink:

 

[DebinGA]

I was going to start a thread on that case tonight but have been too busy. They protested today.

"Francys Johnson, president of the Georgia Chapter of the NAACP, led Friday’s protest on Augusta Avenue. He said while officer-involved shootings are challenging to any community, Savannah is not Ferguson, Mo., the scene of days of citizen unrest after Michael Brown was shot and killed by a police officer. In that case, Johnson said, the community did not have the benefit of diversity in its city government and police department. “We can show America what a united community looks like,” Johnson said."

 

[reedus23]

bbm

reedus23,
ITA.
But here, other forces pressed McC to starting to put case to GJ about 2-3 wks post-event.
Imo, pretty quickly, compared to many other investigations.
Not a lot of time to interview witnesses, then others, go back to orig. witnesses in light of new witness info.
Also sort out discrepancies between witnesses.
Await forensics, etc.
Compare autopsy v1(Dr.Case), v.2 Baden & Parcells, v.3 DoJ (assuming McC has access)

{{ETA: did not think this incomplete comment posted to bd, so adding more below.
Sorry for itchy fingers, glad I did not have gun in hand}}}

Sort out poss discrep re autopsy rpts.
Ditto forensics.
Produce graphics, computer gen-reconstructions, charts, trajectories, photos, power points, etc.
Now, put all this together in way to make sense to GJ/lay ppl.
Yadda yadda yadda.

If pres to GJ is not movie-slick or L&O-SVU polished, understandable to me, w pressure-cooker the prosecutor is in.
Glad that the 2 attys assigned seem to be senior staff, not rookies.

jm2cts.

Glad the 2 are experienced as well. From everything I've heard, they are excellent attorneys.

If I'm hearing ya right, yeah, I agree, the speed with which it was taken to a GJ concerns me too. And I don't get that, because I think if y'all have learned anything about McCulloch it's that he doesn't succumb to pressure very easily, which is why I'm left scratching my head why he went to a GJ so fast. Not fair to OW if you ask me. Not fair to the Brown's if you ask me. I'm sure it's either not as uncommon as I believe or there are legitimate reasons for it, but it just all seems so rushed.

 

[katydid23]

Its not fair to refer to mb size when we dont know dw size... at least i dont

Dorian did lie about the robbery at first, im sure he didnt want to incriminate himself. Dont think its just cause to toss out his testimony. And his account of what happened between ow and mb at the suv is corrobborated by tiffany mitchell

That is why i continue to refer to happened at the suv as the scuffle because there are multiple versions of what happened and i really dont what to believe besides that there was a scuffle

Still believe that the shooting was unjustified

But i will go through and read some of the older threads, links i was given though

Im open to the possibility of ow being innocent i just havent come across any credible evidence that suggest that he acted within reason

What happened when mb and ow came face to face after the foot chase is what the case hinges on

Glad i joined though

U all seem like a smart, fair minded bunch

What do you all think about the video of the guys where a man can be heard yelling "he had his hands up"?

We're glad you joined too.

OW is much smaller than MB was. He could not have held his neck with one hand and pulled him into the SUV. Baden said there was no marks on MBs neck . So that never happened.

Tiffany Mitchell did not see the very start of the confrontation. She drove up afterwards.

Sure, he didn't want to incriminate himself. So he made up a story. Just like he wouldn't want to incriminate his friend---so he made up another story.
I highly doubt that the officer drove by and said 'get out of the effin street.' I think that is embellishment by DJ.

I toss out his story because it makes little sense. OW was not the one that was in an aggressive, violent mental state at the time. MB was the one that was confrontational and aggressive. When they came together, why do you assume the officer was the aggressor? He was coming from a sick call where he was the caretaker. Not the violent one.

As for the hands up thing, I think there is some confusion surrounding that. Piaget said he never got that up past the middle front of his chest. And people use her as the main witness in their source for him having his hands up.

It is possible for someone to have their arms raised and be in a threatening stance, as opposed to a non threatening stance.

Have you listened to the speaker in the black canseco youtube video? My daughter changed her mind after she heard his comments.

 

[reedus23]

:giggle: You should have followed the Caylee Anthony case. It was my first case I followed here. Florida is ninja fast, it was awesome :happydance:

I have heard that about Florida and I frankly think it's a good thing. I've just never known any other state to be Florida fast. Don't get me wrong, I wish they were all as fast and all as open as Florida. There are countless other cases on WS that could benefit from that.

 

[reedus23]

You do understand he couldn't say much..right?




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But apparently he could say what he said. It just took him at least 3 tries at the story before he decided it was enough.

 

[Dana]

OK-so here goes!

Like many, I came here outraged that an innocent unarmed young man was shot to death simply for walking down the middle of the road in broad daylight. After several outrageous stories about police brutality (namely the one in New York where the man was put in a chokhold and died.) Well...I've come a long way baby. It was through a series of revelations that I had come to believe that not only was this NOT a case of police brutality, but in fact, just the opposite. This is one of the clearest cases of a justifiable shooting I ever remember seeing. Sure, you can take one fact alone and see it as unjustified - young kid, recent grad, unarmed, may have had his hands in the air at some point, etc... But once you put together the entire picture, it is clear as day what happened here and I have gone from thinking that the cop was a racist cold blooded murderer to believing that OW is a hero and a VICTIM. A victim of MB, then further victimized by the people he serves, by the media and by politicians. He has had to go into hiding for simply doing his job. He has been called a murderer and a racist and I think it is pretty clear he is neither of those. (Honestly, how many white cops in a black neighborhood have not one complaint on their record in 6 years???)

Now, in order to turn me around to the opposite? I don't know because I am pretty gosh darned confident based on the incredible amount of information I have seen that supports a justified shooting, but I'll try.

If I learned that there actually was a bunch of unknown instances of brutality and/or racism in his past that showed a pattern? I'd probably become a little more suspicious and probably much less sympathetic. If I learend that his initial statement actually did state that he held some culpability or perhaps that he had confessed to someone after the fact that he shot MB out of anger or something like that? Perhaps if I found out that he admitted shooting him while his hands were up and he was surrendering?

A video of the shooting might help. I'd probably need some audio of MB saying "please don't shoot me" and then OW shooting him anyway without any forward movement by MB? At this point, it would obviously take a lot.

But here is the thing. Regardless of the outcome of this, I trust in the process. While I have seen many a person I felt guilty "get off" I haven't seen a lot of people get railroaded in such a famous case like this. But in the end, I would trust that the process worked. That after looking at all of the evidence, the GJ chooses to indict, OK, I'd probaly watch the trial carefully. If he ended up being convicted in the end, OK, well I would have to trust that 12 people were really convinced in his guilt.

But I don't feel that many on the "other side" would ever go there. Every time something comes out that takes away part of their narrative, some just dig their heels in deeper and are willing to ignore or accept the damning information. The video shouldn't have been released (rather than taking it for what it shows.) Then a strong armed robbery became "shoplifting." The unabashed refusal to get out of the middle of a busy road with a double yellow stripe down the middle became "Jay Walking." The assault on OW became a "tussle" that he ran away from (after originally being described as OW trying to pull him into the car!) The drugs in his system (well, it's just pot and makes people more mellow - yet 10 minutes earlier he strong arm robbed a store.) I think that most reasonable people would fold at some point and walk away. I think many have. Yet there are still so many that just refuse to allow anything to change their minds. They are angry at racism and police brutality and someone needs to pay. They have their man now and won't let go no matter how innocent he might be. I doesn't matter to them. They have to see someone pay and it really doesn't matter who.

I will leave on this. Remember one thing here. First thing is that any lawyer with any sense knows that it is very unlikely that OW will even be indicted let alone convicted of anything serious in this case. But yet they keep calling for an arrest. They need an arrest because an arrest will allow for a civil case to be filed. Without one, they've got nothing.

WHEW!

:goodpost:

 

[katydid23]

View attachment 59420

Hahahahahahahahahahaha......that is actually HARLEY. But he looks very regal. Better him than me. He is the boss of this house. lol

 

[Linda7NJ]

Glad the 2 are experienced as well. From everything I've heard, they are excellent attorneys.

If I'm hearing ya right, yeah, I agree, the speed with which it was taken to a GJ concerns me too. And I don't get that, because I think if y'all have learned anything about McCulloch it's that he doesn't succumb to pressure very easily, which is why I'm left scratching my head why he went to a GJ so fast. Not fair to OW if you ask me. Not fair to the Brown's if you ask me. I'm sure it's either not as uncommon as I believe or there are legitimate reasons for it, but it just all seems so rushed.

IMO, he wanted to use the grand jury that was already seated.


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[Lovejac]

Cops don't get to just shoot people because they are miscreants. There are countless people who have done the same or worse. Doesn't give carte blanch to shoot them. The threat to the public has to be an articulable threat at the time of the shooting, not some generalized threat of "Well he's a gang banger so it wouldn't shock me if he carjacked someone." To me, an articulable threat is, he has a gun, he's verbally threatening people, he's doing something in that moment in time of the fatal shots that created an articulable or immediate threat to someone else.

And for the obvious but ironic part....ask all the residents of Canfield Apartments who posed a bigger threat to them, MB or OW? Who did they fear more? Yes, I know, completely irrelevant from a legal perspective, but from a societal point of view, it is pretty ironic.

Then I ask you, what do you think MB would have done if he had been able to get Officer Wilson's gun?

 

[reedus23]

Man, you hop the fence as often as I brush my tooth!



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LMAO I've now got more soda on my desk than in my stomach. Thanks for that.

 

[bettybaby00]

But by Friday, a little-known unit of the U.S. Department of Justice had gotten involved, and those meetings, originally billed by Mayor James Knowles as a dialogue with the community “so they know exactly where we stand on things with full transparency,” would be closed to the media and nearly anyone else who wasn’t a resident.
********************************************************************************
There it is in black and white WHO is responsible for the change. Mark my words, the Mayor et al will be blamed for this.

BBM interesting, Shalid isn't a resident right?

 

[Lovejac]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha......that is actually HARLEY. But he looks very regal. Better him than me. He is the boss of this house. lol

Did you make him sit through Al Sharpton with you? If so, he deserves to be sainted as well! :biggrin:

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have heard that about Florida and I frankly think it's a good thing. I've just never known any other state to be Florida fast. Don't get me wrong, I wish they were all as fast and all as open as Florida. There are countless other cases on WS that could benefit from that.

I think while it satisfies us ..it taints the jury pool in a way that cripples the prosecution.
Every person aware and concerned what's happening in their community has already formed an opinion and is eliminated during Voir dire. The remaining jury pool live under rocks and acquit murderers like Casey Anthony


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[teedie2]

Looks like some are starting to talk about their plans for 10/13 a bit more. New hashtag

@anonferg
Any police misconduct at #NoJusticeNoFootball will not be tolerated. St. Louis City police you have been warned @OpFerguson #Ferguson
8:28am - 18 Sep 14
https://twitter.com/AnonFerg/status/512578814983929856


More here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/search/?q=#NoJusticeNoFootball&s=hash

These people are truly nuts. imo