MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #21

[Lovejac]

The living, breathing AA Exec Officer recently lost in the primary to Steve Stenger, white Democrat St Louis City Councilman. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch endorsed Stenger, and here's why:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinio...cle_1f5750bd-f4c1-5296-b822-ca1778117508.html

There's that Dooley name again. Now I can see how a deceased person would be a better choice :facepalm:

 

[Sonya610]

Ferguson folks may need to communicate via CBs about "protest" zones to warn others before they find themselves similarly surrounded/attacked.

Very true, the non-protestors have to be very careful not to get caught in mob. Also when stopped in traffic it is best to keep space between you and the car in front of you so you at least have a chance to move if trouble is approaching.

 

[DebinGA]

Very true, the non-protestors have to be very careful not to get caught in mob. Also when stopped in traffic it is best to keep space between you and the car in front of you so you at least have a chance to move if trouble is approaching.

And everyone needs to have a camera phone and know how to use it, to document what's being done/said to them and by whom. Ditto becoming aware of laws re intimidation and threats.

 

[CMac2]

I'm a walking contradiction when it comes to this forum, it seems. I realize I am extremely passionate about this issue, and at times, I become a total jerk about it. It's not my intention, and for that, I truly apologize. I can't decide whether or not I'm going to keep posting here, because honestly, this forum makes me insane. On the one hand, I'm so happy there are so many of you that care about what's happening to this itty bitty town in Missouri that most people had never even heard of prior to August 9. On the other hand, the misinformation makes my blood boil. People tend to WANT to believe the residents of Ferguson are horrible people, and that literally, truly breaks my heart.

Here are some of the things I want to set the record straight on:

1. The rioters were not residents of Ferguson. They were criminals, opportunists who saw a chance to steal for their own selfish reasons, and knew that due to circumstances, they'd be able to blame the community of Ferguson for their actions. There are businesses in Ferguson that the community needed that will not reopen because of the crimes these outsiders committed. The crimes themselves are unforgivable. That they were committed in the name of Ferguson makes it even worse.

2. 99% of the people posting about Ferguson on Twitter are simply instigators. If anyone is interested in some Twitter handles that are accurately reporting the work that is being done both on behalf of the city and by the residents and authorities of the city, let me know. I can provide lots of resources. Like the looters, most of these imposters are not residents of Ferguson, nor do they represent the best interest of the city.

3. This was alluded to this morning by another poster- people question why those of us who really want to do good things in Ferguson are not speaking out against these "instigators" that do not represent us. The fact is, we are trying. Really, really trying. Registering voters, educating people about the local political system, teaching people how to use their voices in a responsible manner is EXTREMELY important, but unfortunately, totally unsexy. The media would much rather report on the 20 people who were at Busch Stadium last night (even though those people do NOT represent us) than report on the hundreds of people that were at UMSL during the same time, speaking with Claire McCaskill, Attorney Connie Rice, Gwen Ifill, the chief of the Cincinnati police department and Alderman Antonio French. That's where the REAL "protesters" were. And there were lots of us there. Watch the PBS special this Friday night, and you'll see. So many people came that they had to open an overflow room in another building to accomodate them. I was lucky enough to get there in time to get a seat in the main forum. Please know that we do contact the media in an effort to set the record straight. We do try our best to dispute what others are saying about Ferguson, but people don't seem to want to hear it. There are people in this forum who don't seem to want to hear it.

4. Like any other touchy and controversial situation, there will be imposters pretending to represent what Ferguson is all about. It has to be very difficult for those not from the area to get a grasp on what is truly the voice of Ferguson, and what isn't. The bottom line is, as another poster already stated, these problems were ongoing well before Mike Brown was shot. His death was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It didn't start with him, and it will not end with him.

5. Ferguson has given birth to a generation of young black activists. While that's extremely inspiring in so many ways, some of these young men are terribly misguided. They are distrustful of a system they have been taught to believe is against them, they have years- and in some cases, generations- of anger towards "the man" and towards any authority figure. This includes teachers, police officers, local officials, store owners- anyone and everyone they feel represents a system that does not represent or care about them. Now, not everyone has to agree with them, but they were not born angry. Their experiences do matter. I will NEVER condone violence- I have cut many people out of my life since Mike Brown's death, because they supported violence as a way of being heard. What I won't do, however, is discount their feelings. There is a reason such a huge swatch of our population is angry and desperate. Some of the responsibility for that lies within the black community itself. Some of it lies within a school district that isn't even accredited anymore. Some of it lies with public officials that do not care about the poor and disenfranchised. Some lies with LE. All I'm saying is that there is plenty of blame to go around. This will never be resolved, progress will never be made as long as people refuse to acknowledge the very real pain that resides in this community. It is real. At least TRY to understand it, if you can.

6. To the poster that wondered whether we are merely registering people to vote, or if we're also educating them, the answer is we are educating them. Again, the process isn't sexy. Most of the elected officials on the ballot do not reflect the population of Ferguson, and have run unopposed for many years. We have to change that. Getting people registered to vote is only one step. Getting them passionate enough to show up to the polls is another step. Getting people who truly represent the community on the ballot is yet another step. We are working hard- day in and day out- to do these things.

7. While instigators are doing crazy things online and at Busch Stadium, real work is being done in the local churches. There are many youth programs and outreach groups that are working with the hundreds of young AA men who really do want to affect change in Ferguson. As locals, we are not paying any attention to the few that instigate with banners at Busch Stadium. We are focusing on the men who WANT to make a difference, who don't care about their 15 minutes of fame, who want to make their community better.

Hopefully that clears some stuff up. Again, the vast majority of Ferguson wants progress. Please do not assume that people in front of a camera, simply because they say they represent us actually do. 99% of the time, they don't. The people that are working towards positive change don't have TIME to go to a ball game and raise a ruckus with 19 other people. We are too busy actually DOING it. We have full-time jobs, we have families, and we're trying to do a lot of work in the community too. We are simply too busy making a difference in a positive way to worry about the negative. We rely on many of you to call BS where you see it, so we can keep working.

Sorry about the novel.

 

[DebinGA]

Someone in WA with the same name as the FOIA requester posted this from WA re their state sunshine laws:

"The Washington State Public Records Act, passed decades ago after the Watergate scandal awakened Americans to inappropriate secrecy in government, states, "The people of this state do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies that serve them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may maintain control over the instruments that they have created. This chapter shall be liberally construed and its exemptions narrowly construed to promote this public policy and to assure that the public interest will be fully protected. In the event of conflict between the provisions of this chapter and any other act, the provisions of this chapter shall govern."

I couldn't agree more. That's why I view DOJ's "barring media" from the upcoming Ferguson meeting to be ominous and perhaps even illegal. The law can be "strong-armed" too imo.

 

[LambChop]

We do not condone attacking another poster. It is against the rules. If you do not care for opinions someone has posted than feel free to disagree with the post but do not attack the poster under any conditions.

It is clear to the majority of posters that race was not the issue in the death of Michael Brown. Some posters may disagree but considering what evidence we have heard and some evidence we have seen in written form most of the posters here have concluded that the officer had a reasonable belief that his life was in danger specifically because MB had just tried to grab his weapon and assaulted him. However, that could change when more information is released. But at the present time the protestors are seen by the vast majority as hurting their own cause by using this case as an example of police brutality. (Last night was an exception because it was very peaceful and they got our attention because we watched it here on livestream, so thanks to the protestors for providing us with that because MSM did not participate.)

That being said, please respect that others have a right to express their opinions based on their belief but do not attack another member because their belief is different than yours. We are honestly trying to get at the truth.

 

[krimekat]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/22/arrest.data.from.8-10.to.8-22.pdf

Check this out! This may have been posted last month, but it is a compilation of those arrested in Ferguson by StL County PD from 10 Aug to 22 Aug; note this does not include arrests by City of Ferguson PD or MO State PD during that time period.

it's from the article

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/ferguson-arrests/index.html

 

[Klood-N]

Thanks for the clean up on aisle 6. My post did not say the protestors represent Ferguson. In fact, I and many others have researched and discussed why we don't believe that's the case. We've discussed the poll of the area, popsicle lady, citizens who just want to go to school and the store, the reasonable resident who opposed the highway shutdown as it could be dangerous, shop owners dealing with damage and intimidation, etc. An example among many:

I don't believe there are "white" mindsets and "black" mindsets. In Ferguson, in St Louis, and online there are voices of people of different races disagreeing with the false narrative, the rioting, the victim and outrage du joir mentality.

The main point of my post though was how discombobulated and unfocused the protestors seem. At this point, I think it's a loose amalgam of disparate groups and individuals, some seeking anarchy and revolution, nationalists and separatists, criminals, and politicians all in this to benefit themselves and their respective causes.

As I've said before, it's tragic and infuriating the true lessons of Michael's death are being lost in their vitriolic hate of authority, LE, other races, etc.

I think the efforts here and by LE were mischaracterized, and presented information as to why. As to the statement that the real protestors were at the PBS townhall, not at the Cards game, I'd say they were at both. French has been right in the middle of this, getting arrested, setting up shop, gathering donations, and fanning the flames by praising the Cards protest last night, the one where they chanted for Wilson's death. And Tef Poe sat next to McCaskill, then headed to the Cards game and led those chants. IMO, we're not only known by the company we keep but the leaders we choose to follow. When Shahid, Shabazz, Nasheed, Vickers etc are considered the leaders, following says a lot.

 

[CMac2]

Please, someone, anyone , tell me what purpose it will serve to write the name of a deceased person for election?

Is there not a living, breathing AA that would be better suited to represent them?

Are the people helping them register to vote explaining how voting and elections work? Or are they just signing them up?

This tweet's purpose was to make a point. The point is, to many in Ferguson, they'd be better off electing a dead guy to serve than some of the actual candidates out there. Not the most eloquent way of making the point, but you're dealing with young men who are in deep pain. They are 18-25 years of age for the most part, and they're expressing outrage the only way they know how.

We have actually identified a candidate that we are supporting. The candidate is alive, is a resident of Ferguson, and is a Republican. Some are surprised, thinking we would never put a Republican in office, but that's just another example of an inaccurate stereotype of our area rearing its ugly head. This candidate has not officially announced, so I can't name the person, but the announcement is coming soon. The person has long-time ties to the community, is conservative, but truly understands the challenges faced in Ferguson, and is dedicated to serving the city.

 

[CMac2]

Thanks for the clean up on aisle 6. My post did not say the protestors represent Ferguson. In fact, I and many others have researched and discussed why we don't believe that's the case. We've discussed the poll of the area, popsicle lady, citizens who just want to go to school and the store, the reasonable resident who opposed the highway shutdown as it could be dangerous, shop owners dealing with damage and intimidation, etc. An example among many:




I think the efforts here and by LE were mischaracterized, and presented information as to why. As to the statement that the real protestors were at the PBS townhall, not at the Cards game, I'd say they were at both. French has been right in the middle of this, getting arrested, setting up shop, gathering donations, and fanning the flames by praising the Cards protest last night, the one where they chanted for Wilson's death. And Tef Poe sat next to McCaskill, then headed to the Cards game and led those chants. IMO, we're not only known by the company we keep but the leaders we choose to follow. When Shahid, Shabazz, Nasheed, Vickers etc are considered the leaders, following says a lot.

It's important to note, Tef did NOT want to sit next to McCaskill last night. PBS arranged all the seating, and had names on each of the chairs where the "guests" were expected to sit. PBS tried to represent all views. Yes, Tef was there, but so was a white male blogger who has a different idea than Tef about what is happening in Ferguson. The point was to get multiple views heard, not just one single narrative, which is more than I can say the rest of the media has tried to accomplish up to this point.

 

[Klood-N]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/22/arrest.data.from.8-10.to.8-22.pdf

Check this out! This may have been posted last month, but it is a compilation of those arrested in Ferguson by StL County PD from 10 Aug to 22 Aug; note this does not include arrests by City of Ferguson PD or MO State PD during that time period.

it's from the article

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/ferguson-arrests/index.html

Wow. LE is working hard! Thanks for the data.

 

[CMac2]

Thanks for the clean up on aisle 6. My post did not say the protestors represent Ferguson. In fact, I and many others have researched and discussed why we don't believe that's the case. We've discussed the poll of the area, popsicle lady, citizens who just want to go to school and the store, the reasonable resident who opposed the highway shutdown as it could be dangerous, shop owners dealing with damage and intimidation, etc. An example among many:

I think the efforts here and by LE were mischaracterized, and presented information as to why. As to the statement that the real protestors were at the PBS townhall, not at the Cards game, I'd say they were at both. French has been right in the middle of this, getting arrested, setting up shop, gathering donations, and fanning the flames by praising the Cards protest last night, the one where they chanted for Wilson's death. And Tef Poe sat next to McCaskill, then headed to the Cards game and led those chants. IMO, we're not only known by the company we keep but the leaders we choose to follow. When Shahid, Shabazz, Nasheed, Vickers etc are considered the leaders, following says a lot.

Sorry- and about French- he's not as beloved in this area as many would have you believe. Most people don't realize he isn't even an Alderman in Ferguson. He represents North City. Many believe he has plenty of violent crime to focus on in his own district, and is using Ferguson as a platform to ultimately run for mayor of St. Louis. Personally, I can't say what his motivations are. He seems all over the place to me, and my views on him, like my views on many other things, are complicated and at time, contradictory. Initially, at least, he did put a spotlight on the region, which I felt was important at the time. Too many people wanted to forget about us. How much that ultimately helped, time will tell.

 

[SStarr33]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/22/arrest.data.from.8-10.to.8-22.pdf

Check this out! This may have been posted last month, but it is a compilation of those arrested in Ferguson by StL County PD from 10 Aug to 22 Aug; note this does not include arrests by City of Ferguson PD or MO State PD during that time period.

it's from the article

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/us/ferguson-arrests/index.html

Looks like most of those are locals.

 

[CMac2]

Looks like most of those are locals.

Only 4 from the entire list are locals. Their city of residence is Jennings, Florissant, University City, St. Louis City (which isn't even located in St. Louis County).

 

[SStarr33]

Only 4 from the entire list are locals. Their city of residence is Jennings, Florissant, University City, St. Louis City (which isn't even located in St. Louis County).

We must be looking at different reports, because there are more than 4 from Ferguson. Plus, some of those other cities you mentioned are right there--those count as local to me.

 

[krimekat]

This tweet's purpose was to make a point. The point is, to many in Ferguson, they'd be better off electing a dead guy to serve than some of the actual candidates out there. Not the most eloquent way of making the point, but you're dealing with young men who are in deep pain. They are 18-25 years of age for the most part, and they're expressing outrage the only way they know how.

We have actually identified a candidate that we are supporting. The candidate is alive, is a resident of Ferguson, and is a Republican. Some are surprised, thinking we would never put a Republican in office, but that's just another example of an inaccurate stereotype of our area rearing its ugly head. This candidate has not officially announced, so I can't name the person, but the announcement is coming soon. The person has long-time ties to the community, is conservative, but truly understands the challenges faced in Ferguson, and is dedicated to serving the city.

BBM above: for County Commissioner? Better get on it 'cause the election is 4 Nov & absentee voting starts tomorrow

currently, there are 4 candidates on the ballot for StL County Commissioner

IMHO they should have Tweeted MB for Mayor of Ferguson or something along those lines, but honestly it won't matter

IMHO Entire StL County is not representative of Ferguson; population of StL County is >1M (note this doesn't include StL City pop 313K)

 

[Klood-N]

Write in Mike Brown is a real strategy being encouraged by some, not just a metaphor.
https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=#writeinMikeBrown

 

[Trident]

This tweet's purpose was to make a point. The point is, to many in Ferguson, they'd be better off electing a dead guy to serve than some of the actual candidates out there. Not the most eloquent way of making the point, but you're dealing with young men who are in deep pain. They are 18-25 years of age for the most part, and they're expressing outrage the only way they know how.
We have actually identified a candidate that we are supporting. The candidate is alive, is a resident of Ferguson, and is a Republican. Some are surprised, thinking we would never put a Republican in office, but that's just another example of an inaccurate stereotype of our area rearing its ugly head. This candidate has not officially announced, so I can't name the person, but the announcement is coming soon. The person has long-time ties to the community, is conservative, but truly understands the challenges faced in Ferguson, and is dedicated to serving the city.

BBM. Tell me please what the young men are outraged about. This has been a stopping point for me, something I do not understand, but something I truly want to.

 

[krimekat]

Only 4 from the entire list are locals. Their city of residence is Jennings, Florissant, University City, St. Louis City (which isn't even located in St. Louis County).

actually 10 from Ferguson were arrested during that time frame but IMHO local does not only mean Ferguson

I believe it's a total of 212 people

 

[DebinGA]

Only 4 from the entire list are locals. Their city of residence is Jennings, Florissant, University City, St. Louis City (which isn't even located in St. Louis County).

IIRC Canfield Green Apartments has a "St. Louis" address. Kids there attend "Jennings" HS. Florissant is very close too, as the job fair at the community college there was less than 3 mi. from Canfield Green iirc.