MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #21

[CMac2]

It's interesting that your impression is that the clergy are absent. They are not. They're everywhere (including tonight's town hall). Perhaps MSM doesn't find their input worthy of covering, but they are the people who were opening shelters with water and food for the (peaceful) protesters, they organized the drop-in by the United Way, where hot lunches were provided to neighborhood youth who wouldn't otherwise eat, because school was cancelled. They've been meeting multiple times a week with local officials to discuss positive change within the community. I'm sorry those who aren't right here with us are getting such a slanted view of what's occuring. As for race baiters, yes, there are some. However, you are witnessing the pain of a community that has not been supported by the overall system locally for many yeats. Lots of legitimate hurt, anger and mistrust is prevalent. And it's completely understandable.

 

[CMac2]

In fact, the rioting occured over just a few nights, in large part as a response to over-militarized, inadequately trained police response. Don't get me wrong- even one night of rioting was too much, and I don't condone it. But there is so much good happening every single day here. That people are still stuck on the riots is disturbing. Dr. King said rioting is the language of the unheard. Desperate people resort to desperate measures. Compassion, dialogue, and serious listening is required now. People didn't flip out for no reason. It's real.

 

[Truthy]

I keep wondering where the real, respected, reasonable clergy and other leaders are in this mess? Not national figures like JJ and AS, but local, boots on the ground, clergy and other leaders that the protestors might actually listen to? They have been entirely silent through this whole ordeal. What has risen to the top of the public's consciousness is the prominent hate mongers, such as the 2 women MO state assembly members, who use the shield of their office as a bully pulpit of hate, falsely validated and cloaked in the appearance of professionalism from their elected position. That is incredibly vile and offensive, IMO-- much moreso than JJ and AS instigating rebellion and hate.

I'm glad the NPR town hall meeting was a productive conversation. My concern is that REAL dialogue isn't "sexy" enough for the media to focus on it. "If it bleeds, it leads", and all that. How do we persuade medial that THIS kind of dialogue is WORTH covering, more than the rioters? Sadly, most people just aren't that smart, IMO, to be interested in REAL dialogue. They are much more content running on the faux outrage and manufactured emotion served up by heavily biased media, and the likes of prominent instigators. IMO.

Agree with you about the media- TV is all about cheap sensationalism today- they are so out for blood -it is just sad. I helped out a couple organizations, including an interfaith alliance with media and events and it's hard to make that kind of thing interesting enough to get coverage. We had an party with Walter Cronkite and George Clooney attending (yes, I hounded him!) and got no press coverage. Because they are a bunch of peaceful goodie goodies. Grrr.
On a related note, I have seen things about local ministers and other groups quietly working behind the scenes, and it's great. But I know you can't post to blogs here, and- like you said- the MSM is not terribly interested, so no one hears about it. I had heard about people who had helped out coping with riots in Cleveland had come down to Ferguson early on, good to see at least PBS will say something about that. Gwen Ifill is smart. Looking forward to catching that show.

 

[Truthy]

It's interesting that your impression is that the clergy are absent. They are not. They're everywhere (including tonight's town hall). Perhaps MSM doesn't find their input worthy of covering, but they are the people who were opening shelters with water and food for the (peaceful) protesters, they organized the drop-in by the United Way, where hot lunches were provided to neighborhood youth who wouldn't otherwise eat, because school was cancelled. They've been meeting multiple times a week with local officials to discuss positive change within the community. I'm sorry those who aren't right here with us are getting such a slanted view of what's occuring. As for race baiters, yes, there are some. However, you are witnessing the pain of a community that has not been supported by the overall system locally for many yeats. Lots of legitimate hurt, anger and mistrust is prevalent. And it's completely understandable.

The press have been looking for fireworks and blood. They're disappointed when they can't find them and ignore wonderful people who do help. Sad.

 

[sonjay]

12:02 jumped out at me. OW did call for back-up, then.

I will be VERY interested to find out at what point OW called in the "disturbance in progress"-- whether it was before the "scuffle"/ assault at his patrol vehicle, or after.

I think that is a huge piece of evidence, and I'm sure there are more, from the radio calls. As I recall, other officers were on the scene almost immediately. (And as per the timeline above.)

Personally, I can't imagine that he called this in based on 2 young men who defied his request to move out of the middle of the street. I'd think he would risk being a laughingstock among his LE peers if he had a habit of calling for back up for very minor things, such as 2 defiant young men refusing his request to move to the sidewalk. So, my strong sense is that he called in the "disturbance in progress" at the point in which the defiant young men scenario, was converted into the physical conflict/ assault of a police officer/ struggle for the officer's gun, inside his patrol vehicle.

I really do hope he left his mic hot and open/ recording. That would be critical evidence, IMO.

I'm wondering, if OW did indeed activate his radio's emergency button, would that get reported as a "disturbance in progress" and could that be what that 12:02 DIP report is?

 

[TheDuchess]

In fact, the rioting occured over just a few nights, in large part as a response to over-militarized, inadequately trained police response. Don't get me wrong- even one night of rioting was too much, and I don't condone it. But there is so much good happening every single day here. That people are still stuck on the riots is disturbing. Dr. King said rioting is the language of the unheard. Desperate people resort to desperate measures. Compassion, dialogue, and serious listening is required now. People didn't flip out for no reason. It's real.

Hi CMac - happy to have you here and have a voice from the inside, so to speak. I appreciate you for what you are doing in your community and am happy to hear that there is positive dialogue going on. I do have a question for you, and I'm not sure you could answer it, or perhaps if anyone could.

Although they are truly not independent of one another, there are really 2 different lines going on here. One is the shooting and the other is the racial issues inside Ferguson, the surrounding areas and nationally.

I do not speak for others, but don't feel alone when I say that some of us are finding it frustrating that there appears to be people who cannot separate the 2 issues logically nor fairly. I understand that there are racial issues in the world, so I am not turning a blind eye to them. While I am white, my daughter is African American. We have a racially blended family of white, African American and Hispanic. So racial issues are of importance to me and I am sensitive to them. I applaud any and all efforts to bridge the divide, as I see dialogue and coming together as a community to be very positive steps forward.

That said, while I understand at first blush the desire to jump to racism, there appears to be not one shred of proof that, even if unjustified, that the shooting was racially motivated. Other than the simple fact that OW is white and MB was black, coupled with generalized racial issues in the community, THIS CASE has no evidence at this time to support any kind of conclusion that OW is a racist. I believe with the intense scrutiny in this case, if there was any, it would have likely been uncovered already. Instead, we have a lot of evidence that points us in the other direction. We have a white officer who serves a largly black community with a spotless record of 6 years. Not even one formal complaint. I would think that someone with enough racial hatred to unjustly shoot and kill a surrendering unarmed black teenager in cold blood in the middle of the street, would have exhibited at least some signs leading up to the shooting. But there is nothing here.

Now many of us here found ourselves in this very forum because we were outraged when we first heard the story. We immeidately thought police brutality, racism, etc...but the more we learned about the situation, the video from the robbery, the "tussle" at the car, etc...and the more we learned about the evidence like the autopsy report, for example, many of us have changed are tunes and are convinced that OW is completely innocent and was a victim in all of this and continues to be a victim due to many who just cannot or will not even be open to the possibility that he may just be innocent in all of this.

Regardless of how angry the black community may be, I simply cannot find a justification for the rioting, regardless of the fact it only lasted a couple of days (that is all it took.) I can't justify such an impassioned reaction from the community, including lawmakers and the media, to rush to judgement without having more information. I can't justify calls for OWs death, the fact that he had to go into hiding, the fact that there is continued protests calling for his arrest. I cannot justify making a hero out of a young man who we know strong arm robbed that store and then assaulted a police officer. I cannot justify hate groups led by the likes of Saheed, organizing protests to put people in fear.

So I guess my question is: regardless of how tough things are in the black community, WHY can't they separate themselves from their anger long enough to allow the process to takes its course. To wait for the evidence to play out. To trust in a pre-seated GJ to make a determination of an indictment or not. I know they are angry. I know they want revenge. But quite simply, in my opinion, the facts do not present themselves that way. At this point, there is simply not enough evidence to clearly support an arrest or even a trial against someone who quite possibly (probably in my view) was simply just doing his job.

 

[SStarr33]

Check out the comment from SHG here:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...6bc-5703-98b1-8ee666b9cadd.html?mode=comments

and then go to her FB page to get more details. She was one of the people who got arrested at the game. She said the crowd chanted, "lock them up" and laughed at them

 

[reedus23]

Sooo many highlights. Like I said, Claire Mccaskill was there, and she spoke about the need for African Americans to be more present in local politics. That we need more people in the system that look like us (well, not like "us", because I'm bi-racial, but you get what I'm saying). They also had attorney Connie Rice present (of L.A. riots fame), and the police chief from Cincinnati, who got them through their own riots recently. The mayor of Ferguson spoke, as did Alderman Antonio French. There were some young black men who talked about their experiences in Ferguson and surrounding areas, as well as the founder of Dream Defenders (started in the wake of Trayvon's death). What struck me the most is that this is the first time I've seen locals from our community- black, white, rich, poor, young and old- come together and really listen to each other. Everyone had important and valid points, and we all listened to each other. Living in St. Louis, the racial divide is massive. It always has been. To get so many people from so many different walks of life, with so many varying opinions together in one room, where people honestly listened to each other felt monumental. It was a huge deal.

This is where the focus should be. Not some no name yahoos spouting off on social media with an iphone cam.

 

[Lovejac]

I'm wondering, if OW did indeed activate his radio's emergency button, would that get reported as a "disturbance in progress" and could that be what that 12:02 DIP report is?

Like a panic button? That would be a great thing, I didn;t know radios had that sort of thing.

 

[reedus23]

I will post more as I come across more. I have been to the scene of MB's death, and have joined the protesters on more than one occasion. I've stayed out of here because I do believe this is a racial situation, and I understand that's not openly discussed here. As a local, racial tensions have been brewing in the St. Louis metro area for decades. This incident caused the explosion, but it's always been part of the day-to-day dynamic here. I won't discuss my personal views on the matter, but will do my best to provide a factual boots-on-the-ground account of what is happening.

So well said. I suppose it's a very sensitive topic that tends to bring out some raw emotions on all sides, but I wish there had been a separate thread devoted to this aspect of what's going on. I've said it before, but the things that will be accomplished through things like this town hall meeting will probably have longer lasting effects than the result of a single case involving MB/OW.

 

[DebinGA]

Check out the comment from SHG here:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...6bc-5703-98b1-8ee666b9cadd.html?mode=comments

and then go to her FB page to get more details. She was one of the people who got arrested at the game. She said the crowd chanted, "lock them up" and laughed at them

She seems pleased as punch, and her banner looks good as new after its removal.

 

[DebinGA]

Good sleuthing over at the Treehouse this morning re the young fellow whose foot was supposedly run over by the "KKK" guy's CRV. Video shows the "victim" walking, even running, normally post-faux foot crushing, plus there were at least 3 foot-crushing trial runs with the youth posing with his hands on the wheel-well before the winning "He ran over his foot!" pic was chosen.

 

[reedus23]

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/09/22/first-in-series-of-ferguson-town-halls-to-be-held-tonight/

Looks like the Ferguson town hall meetings start tonight.

 

[Klood-N]

Gwen Ifill was the moderator

Claire Mccaskill was there, and she spoke about the need for African Americans to be more present in local politics. That we need more people in the system that look like us (well, not like "us", because I'm bi-racial, but you get what I'm saying). Alderman Antonio French. There were some young black men who talked about their experiences in Ferguson and surrounding areas, as well as the founder of Dream Defenders

I have been to the scene of MB's death, and have joined the protesters on more than one occasion.

they organized the drop-in by the United Way, where hot lunches were provided to neighborhood youth who wouldn't otherwise eat, because school was cancelled. I'm sorry those who aren't right here with us are getting such a slanted view of what's occuring.

In fact, the rioting occured over just a few nights, in large part as a response to over-militarized, inadequately trained police response. That people are still stuck on the riots is disturbing. Dr. King said rioting is the language of the unheard. People didn't flip out for no reason. It's real.

Snipped the portions that stood out to me. First, thanks for openly stating this is your perspective as one of the protestors. I strongly disagree with most portions of this perspective. I completely disagree that the riots were LE's fault. If you look at the timeline and videos at the scene, the crowd grew unruly, throwing projectiles, flashing guns and firing gunshots, advancing, and threatening LE and other personnel on the ground less than two hours after Michael was shot. Investigators had to stop their work to take cover at times, and detectives had to be pulled into crowd control. SWAT and canines had to be brought, in addition to officers from 15 departments so the investigation could be expedited and Michael's body removed. Black Panthers, Shahid, and Nasheed were there quickly. Shortly after Michael's blood was washed from the street, Baruti was already discussing demands, a sustained movement, bringing in the DOJ. Keep in mind, they had no facts yet. There's a ton of good information and analysis in these threads. Later that same night, the crowd swarmed around police cars, Black power fists raised, screaming they're the KKK. LE responded to the crowd's escalating behavior.

And why did kids have to miss their first days of school, and food be provided, and parents probably miss work and earnings they needed? Because the rioters were out of control and the neighborhood wasn't safe. Businesses were burned, looted, shots fired at police, helicopters, vehicles, Molotov cocktails thrown at people, as well as urine, rocks, concrete blocks, bricks, glass bottles, etc. Not sure where the idea came from that people are "stuck on the riots". Dr King advocated nonviolence and disagreed with the Farakhan/NOI/Back Panther methods. The riots matter, and continued threats to burn down city hall, and the city overall, block highways when it'd put people in danger, surround and beat on people's cars, intimidate people until their demands are met matter too. We've followed many aspects of this case, some even dedicated enough to watch feeds and tweets all night so we don't get just what the media decides is relevant. Ironically, a protestor threatened just a few days ago if things don't go their way, you'd better bring in all the armies.

It's pretty clear to me people flipped out due false and incomplete information, like Dorian stating they just happened upon each other and were walking along the street talking, then Michael ends up shot in the back, falling into fetal position, none of which is true. Shahid was with Dorian, Tiffany, Piaget, and Michael's family; his associates Gray & Bosley become the family's and Dorian's attorneys. Shahid is a racist nationalist separatist agitator, and it's pretty clear he and others decided to use Michael to their advantage. French has already been arrested and seems to be both agitating and exploiting this.

Whether Shahid or McCaskill, acting as if any skin color is preferable over another, for anything, including jobs, is sick and dangerous, IMO. That whole "people that look like us" idea is separatism and segregation and flies in the face of the true civil rights movement, and MLK's judged by the content of their character. And ironically, the protestors have been consistent in screaming in the faces of and taunting black officers more than others. One man told Johnson he wished he was a firefighter so he could be his friend. So, the real issue doesn't appear to be the skin color of others, but a prejudice against LE and authority.

Dream Defenders is connected to the Parks/Crump law firm. Tef Poe, the rapper and protest leader sat next to McCaskill. IMO, Gwen Ifill has a habit of not hiding her biases. What you see as a slanted view because we're not right there with you, may actually be a case of the blind men and the elephant. We may actually have a wider perspective, as we've used many sources, videos, and the voices of lead agitators, attorneys, and protestors for analysis. I'd encourage you to read the threads and links. It looks like a lot of what's been circulated among protestors is false.

Moo

PS Protestors are now saying they are "hunting" Officer Wilson and chanted just last night at the ball game they want Darren Wilson dead. That's not peaceful, that's not about "change".

 

[sonjay]

Like a panic button? That would be a great thing, I didn;t know radios had that sort of thing.

Yes, and I'm sorry but I forget who first mentioned that possibility here. It was reported a few days ago over on the tree-related blog that shall not be linked to that OW had activated his radio emergency button. No hard evidence, but someone claiming to have a source within the PD. We have no idea at this point whether or not it's true.

I did a little reading up on police emergency buttons. Apparently they can function in different ways. Some automatically start recording everything, some have GPS built in to pinpoint the officer's location, some identify the officer but some don't. Dash radios often have different capabilities than lapel radios. I imagine newer models would have all the important features, while older models would be missing some functionality.

 

[TexanMom]

Snipped the portions that stood out to me. First, thanks for openly stating this is your perspective as one of the protestors. I strongly disagree with most portions of this perspective. I completely disagree that the riots were LE's fault. If you look at the timeline and videos at the scene, the crowd grew unruly, throwing projectiles, flashing guns and firing gunshots, advancing, and threatening LE and other personnel on the ground less than two hours after Michael was shot. Investigators had to stop their work to take cover at times, and detectives had to be pulled into crowd control. SWAT and canines had to be brought, in addition to officers from 15 departments so the investigation could be expedited and Michael's body removed. Black Panthers, Shahid, and Nasheed were there quickly. Shortly after Michael's blood was washed from the street, Baruti was already discussing demands, a sustained movement, bringing in the DOJ. Keep in mind, they had no facts yet. There's a ton of good information and analysis in these threads. Later that same night, the crowd swarmed around police cars, Black power fists raised, screaming they're the KKK. LE responded to the crowd's escalating behavior.

And why did kids have to miss their first days of school, and food be provided, and parents probably miss work and earnings they needed? Because the rioters were out of control and the neighborhood wasn't safe. Businesses were burned, looted, shots fired at police, helicopters, vehicles, Molotov cocktails thrown at people, as well as urine, rocks, concrete blocks, bricks, glass bottles, etc. Not sure where the idea came from that people are "stuck on the riots". Dr King advocated nonviolence and disagreed with the Farakhan/NOI/Back Panther methods. The riots matter, and continued threats to burn down city hall, and the city overall, block highways when it'd put people in danger, surround and beat on people's cars, intimidate people until their demands are met matter too. We've followed many aspects of this case, some even dedicated enough to watch feeds and tweets all night so we don't get just what the media decides is relevant. Ironically, a protestor threatened just a few days ago if things don't go their way, you'd better bring in all the armies.

It's pretty clear to me people flipped out due false and incomplete information, like Dorian stating they just happened upon each other and were walking along the street talking, then Michael ends up shot in the back, falling into fetal position, none of which is true. Shahid was with Dorian, Tiffany, Piaget, and Michael's family; his associates Gray & Bosley become the family's and Dorian's attorneys. Shahid is a racist nationalist separatist agitator, and it's pretty clear he and others decided to use Michael to their advantage. French has already been arrested and seems to be both agitating and exploiting this.

Whether Shahid or McCaskill, acting as if any skin color is preferable over another, for anything, including jobs, is sick and dangerous, IMO. That whole "people that look like us" idea is separatism and segregation and flies in the face of the true civil rights movement, and MLK's judged by the content of their character. And ironically, the protestors have been consistent in screaming in the faces of and taunting black officers more than others. One man told Johnson he wished he was a firefighter so he could be his friend. So, the real issue doesn't appear to be the skin color of others, but a prejudice against LE and authority.

Dream Defenders is connected to the Parks/Crump law firm. Tef Poe, the rapper and protest leader sat next to McCaskill. IMO, Gwen Ifill has a habit of not hiding her biases. What you see as a slanted view because we're not right there with you, may actually be a case of the blind men and the elephant. We may actually have a wider perspective, as we've used many sources, videos, and the voices of lead agitators, attorneys, and protestors for analysis. I'd encourage you to read the threads and links. It looks like a lot of what's been circulated among protestors is false.

Moo

PS Protestors are now saying they are "hunting" Officer Wilson and chanted just last night at the ball game they want Darren Wilson dead. That's not peaceful, that's not about "change".

And news media continues to pander to them. These misunderstood and underrepresented protesters (eye roll).

 

[LambChop]

Years ago it was 10-0 meant "officer in trouble". "Disturbance in progress" sounds like he had his mike open and had no time to say he was in trouble. jmo

 

[DebinGA]

"The Justice Department is barring media from the meetings, fearing its presence would change the tone of the conversations."

Very disconcerting that the Justice Department can "bar" media or anything else at a locality's public meeting. I like the idea of the meeting including only Ferguson residents. I think the presence of the media at the previous meetings encouraged bad behavior. But decisions about who can attend a public meeting and who can be there chronicling it should be left to those elected to make such local decisions and enforce the relevant laws, which doesn't, or at least shouldn't, include minions from the DOJ. That's a step on the slippery slope toward totalitarianism imo.

 

[Klood-N]

There's other info about the PBS special and Ifill at Breitbart, for those interested.

 

[reedus23]

"The Justice Department is barring media from the meetings, fearing its presence would change the tone of the conversations."

Very disconcerting that the Justice Department can "bar" media or anything else at a locality's public meeting. I like the idea of the meeting including only Ferguson residents. I think the presence of the media at the previous meetings encouraged bad behavior. But decisions about who can attend a public meeting and who can be there chronicling it should be left to those elected to make such local decisions and enforce the relevant laws, which doesn't, or at least shouldn't, include minions from the DOJ. That's a step on the slippery slope toward totalitarianism imo.

I would guess, if Ferguson wanted the media, they'd disregard the DOJ's suggestion. Chief Jackson did when it came to releasing the video. My guess is that putting it on the DOJ's shoulders is to take some of the heat off of Ferguson and let DOJ be the bad guy.