MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #21

[CMac2]

One leader I'm concerned about is the state senator , Maria Chappelle, Nadal, she is continually fanning the flames of hate. IMO. Its hard to see how any young people will be able to overcome that when this is a state senator! Thanks for joining us CMac2. Do you have any thoughts on her behaviour?

Posted as a WS member and not a moderator.

Nadal is a race baiter. I voted for her opponent, who sadly lost. She's always been sort of radical. I have my personal opinion of why she won and not her opponent, but am afraid saying my reason on here will get me thrown out of here. Google her opponent, and you might get a hint of what I'm referring to. I noticed her absence at the PBS townhall meeting yesterday. I'm sure I'm not the only one who noted it.

 

[reedus23]

BBM above: for County Commissioner? Better get on it 'cause the election is 4 Nov & absentee voting starts tomorrow

currently, there are 4 candidates on the ballot for StL County Commissioner

IMHO they should have Tweeted MB for Mayor of Ferguson or something along those lines, but honestly it won't matter

IMHO Entire StL County is not representative of Ferguson; population of StL County is >1M (note this doesn't include StL City pop 313K)

I will probably read on and find the answer, but my suggestion and what I would hope is that they are actually beginning locally. Mayor possibly. Local councilmen/women. Beating out Stengel this late in the game will be near impossible.

 

[Angelonline]

Nadal is a race baiter. I voted for her opponent, who sadly lost. She's always been sort of radical. I have my personal opinion of why she won and not her opponent, but am afraid saying my reason on here will get me thrown out of here. Google her opponent, and you might get a hint of what I'm referring to. I noticed her absence at the PBS townhall meeting yesterday. I'm sure I'm not the only one who noted it.

Its just so sad to me. She is someone young people could look up to, aspire to be, and instead of being a positive role model she uses her position and influence to promote hate.

 

[krimekat]

This post right here is why I draw a distinction between the rioters that lived in Ferguson and those that didnt. There are many municipalities in St. Louis County (I hail from Webster Groves, personally) and lots of them have their own flavor. All of them are their own community. It is not fair to put the looting on Ferguson residents knowing the majority of those were not residents in one breath- by saying they're all local- and then point out the differences among the municipalities in the other. Not saying that's what YOU did, just seizing your post to make a point. People from Jennings don't live in Ferguson any more than people from Webster Groves live in Ferguson.

IMHO I would consider Jennings/Florissant/Dellwood (and all other communities in that area) residents "locals" due to the proximity to Ferguson & specifically West Florissant Ave; I believe everyone can access Google Maps & make their own determination of what is considered "local" to them. Local issues in Ferguson are some of the same issues that many of the communities in North County & North StL City are experiencing & could benefit from communications between residents & LE

IMHO Webster Groves' residents would not be locals; it's > 15 miles away from Ferguson

 

[CHERIE.T]

Sorry, people are SICK and TIRED of being called racists when they are not.

:gthanks:

 

[reedus23]

These young men- whether justified or not- perceive a system at play that is against them. They believe in their hearts that law enforcement cares nothing about them, and that the political machine not only doesn't represent them, but is actively against them. I don't agree that's the case, but I do understand that's their perception. That's where community comes I to play. Where we remind these young men that they have a voice, and they need to use it, or stop complaining. Register to vote, then show up. Get up to speed on the candidates and the issues. Show up at the townhall meetings. We want to hear them. The problem is that they don't believe we want to hear them. There's a monumental lack of trust.

Or that, being a minority, it doesn't matter what they say even if they are heard. Nothing will change. Again, whether they are right or whether they are wrong, that is the impression I get.

 

[Trident]

These young men- whether justified or not- perceive a system at play that is against them. They believe in their hearts that law enforcement cares nothing about them, and that the political machine not only doesn't represent them, but is actively against them. I don't agree that's the case, but I do understand that's their perception. That's where community comes I to play. Where we remind these young men that they have a voice, and they need to use it, or stop complaining. Register to vote, then show up. Get up to speed on the candidates and the issues. Show up at the townhall meetings. We want to hear them. The problem is that they don't believe we want to hear them. There's a monumental lack of trust.

In my own extensive life experience, I have never known 18-25 year olds who much cared about politics. There are exceptions of course, but I doubt in Ferguson.

I thank you for your post, but it gave me no answer. There is something deeper, in my opinion, maybe a lack of parenting, a lacking right of passage, or possibly being born drug addicted. I don't know. I wish I did.

I can only say all the youngsters I know in that age range could care less about politics and, no, they don't like LE. That's because many that I know are breaking/testing the law in one way or another. Methinks it's a part of growing up, but nothing to riot or loot about, and certainly nothing for civil rights threts to be holding an entire pissant town/nation hostage, like our present AG/also a black man, by his own words, has done.

My opinion only

 

[Klood-N]

There has appeared to be an ever increasing tension among protestors as discussed last night. Some of that probably is due to how many disparate groups have tried to glom on to what the family is trying to accomplish and co-opt it, but given that the family and their chosen attorneys all stand with Shahid, Vickers, Sharpton, etc at rallies and in the press, they see them as the heart and leaders of the protestors, IMO. That's who organizes the main protests, they're the voices with Tef Poe, French, Baruti, Nasheed, etc. And Lesley stated that she wanted the death penalty for Officer Wilson.

 

[CMac2]

IMHO I would consider Jennings/Florissant/Dellwood (and all other communities in that area) residents "locals" due to the proximity to Ferguson & specifically West Florissant Ave; I believe everyone can access Google Maps & make their own determination of what is considered "local" to them. Local issues in Ferguson are some of the same issues that many of the communities in North County & North StL City are experiencing & could benefit from communications between residents & LE

IMHO Webster Groves' residents would not be locals; it's > 15 miles away from Ferguson

My point is, it's all part of the county. I realize many of the closer municipalities share a lot of the same issues, but again, it is not fair to say Ferguson residents were looting. Jennings is nearby, but it was not their street tanks were rolling down. They came to Ferguson from their own municipalities. If it's all local, why didn't they tear their own ***** up? The point would have been the same, if they're all local. They didn't want to tear their town up. They came to Ferguson.

 

[DebinGA]

actually, many areas of the County use St. Louis as the "city address" but are considered part of a different municipality; I believe zip codes are more representative of locale, such as 63135, 63136 & 63145 are considered "Ferguson"

maybe this link could be helpful (it is to me)

http://www.zipmap.net/Missouri/St._Louis_County/Ferguson.htm

and this link is AWESOME: http://www.maptechnica.com/us-city-boundary-map/city/Ferguson/state/MO/cityid/2923986

gonna have to book mark it

Very helpful. My interest centers on the Jennings-Northwood-Walnut Park area.

 

[Klood-N]

I've never seen this picture of Officer Wilson before

https://twitter.com/Jdstl314/status/513934650201239552/photo/1

That's the one that was on twitter last night in reference to hunting him.

 

[krimekat]

My take on French is much the same. On the one hand, I do believe he is using Ferguson to further his political career. On the other hand, he has brought a voice to many that could not have other been heard.

I, too, agree with your opinions of French -- why doesn't he help his constituents in StL City & set up these same kinds of communication outlets with the community & LE? I hope voters are thinking the same

 

[Klood-N]

My point is, it's all part of the county. I realize many of the closer municipalities share a lot of the same issues, but again, it is not fair to say Ferguson residents were looting. Jennings is nearby, but it was not their street tanks were rolling down. They came to Ferguson from their own municipalities. If it's all local, why didn't they tear their own ***** up? The point would have been the same, if they're all local. They didn't want to tear their town up. They came to Ferguson.

You said you don't live in Ferguson, right?

There were no tanks. That's been covered in these threads too.

 

[reedus23]

To CMac-
First of all I am sorry to hear that our forum is frustrating to you. I can imagine it is tenfold due to the fact that you are so close to the situation on the ground. I hope you stick around because your commentary can provide us with a very important viewpoint, which quite honestly, everyone here, regardless of which "side"they are on at the moment, would really appreciate. I am afraid that perhaps some of us got off on the wrong foot, but this is a "safe" place and is moderated greatly by LambChop. She keeps us from getting out of control. Many of us here have been modsnipped, had our posts deleted and perhaps even given a "time out" here and there. Because it is a emotional issue and some of us can get carried away.

But for the most part, everyone here is trying to learn, to understand, etc... And I also think that just about everyone here agrees that there are racial issues in our country (we may differ on whose fault that is and what the solution is but...) I think everyone here wishes there weren't a racial divide and are upset that there seems to be some very vocal people agitating that racial divide deeper, when there are people like you who are in there trying to make change, to come together, etc...and it's a great thing.

That said - this forum, and this case, is specifically about Darren Wilson and Michael Brown. That is why so many of us find it frustrating - because it is no longer about Darren Wilson and Michael Brown. Darren Wilson is a human being. He is a law enforcement officer. He is an American with rights. He has a family, friends and even a young child. We find it outrageous that he could be tending to a sick baby one moment and then the next meets up with someone who strong arm robbed a store, attacked him, tried to take his gun away and quite possibly shot him in fear, not because he is black, but because he had just assaulted him. We all feel bad that a young man is dead. But many of us feel he put himself in that position in the first place. Now, although dead, is a "hero" and OW is a "murderer."

So I would love to learn more from you about your community and trying to overcome the greater struggle of racial inequities in this country. But to me, this case is about 2 men and what happened at 12:02 on August 9, 2014. Nothing else matters in terms of what happens to ODW. The only question is whether or not the shooting was justified, which is simply a case of did ODW have a reasonable fear for his safety or the safety of others at the time he shot MB.

So I will repeat my question from earlier in the hopes you can at least try to answer it. It is simple:

Why are there so many people who refuse to have the ability to look at this case as it stands with the facts that are before us, and more importantly, with the facts that are NOT before us, before making a judgement?

I may be misreading your question but how is someone wanting OW arrested based on the facts we know of, which admittedly are NOT all of the facts as you indicate, any different than the people that have reached a judgment on the other end of the spectrum, claiming OW was justified? Both sides are doing the same thing, just with a different interpretation of the facts that have been presented. Now, if you're talking about people wanting OW dead...that is a completely different ball of wax.

 

[krimekat]

I will probably read on and find the answer, but my suggestion and what I would hope is that they are actually beginning locally. Mayor possibly. Local councilmen/women. Beating out Stengel this late in the game will be near impossible.

yeah, and I thought Rick Stream was the republican candidate

 

[Klood-N]

Its just so sad to me. She is someone young people could look up to, aspire to be, and instead of being a positive role model she uses her position and influence to promote hate.

I've been amazed that both her staff and Nasheed's have been at the heart of the highway shutdown and the the road blockage/driver intimidation, especially when LE & EMS said that's dangerous (and it's against the law).

 

[reedus23]

One leader I'm concerned about is the state senator , Maria Chappelle, Nadal, she is continually fanning the flames of hate. IMO. Its hard to see how any young people will be able to overcome that when this is a state senator! Thanks for joining us CMac2. Do you have any thoughts on her behaviour?

Posted as a WS member and not a moderator.

My biggest problem with her as a leader is the fact that that she deemed it appropriate to use the language she used on a public forum. I use just as colorful language so it's not the language itself that I have a problem with but the decision making process that went on within herself that told her it was okay to use such language in such a public way. It would make me question her decision making process, particularly in times of crisis.

 

[DebinGA]

The names provided so far for the PBS "townhall", moderated by AA Gwen Ifil ...

Mayor Knowles - white Republican iirc

Connie Rice - AA CA civil rights attorney/activist

Jeffrey Blackwell - AA Cincinatti Police Chief

Antonio French - AA StL alderman

Dream Defenders founder/s - saw 3 names mentioned, all AA

Sen. Claire McCaskill - white Democrat

There seems to a certain contingent missing. Perhaps a white ACLU chapter head? A white DOJ representative? The white Aryan Nation prez? A member of the all-white Phelps Family?

 

[krimekat]

My point is, it's all part of the county. I realize many of the closer municipalities share a lot of the same issues, but again, it is not fair to say Ferguson residents were looting. Jennings is nearby, it was not their street tanks were rolling down. They came to Ferguson from their own municipalities. If it's all local, why didn't they tear their own ***** up? The point would have been the same, if they're all local. They didn't want to tear their town up. They came to Ferguson.

IMHO because that's where the 9 Aug incident occurred . . . again, the issues bringing Ferguson down are the same issues bringing down many other communities of North County & North City.

Tanks? no tanks -- maybe militarized vehicles like the one at the Shell (Delmar & Skinker) in U City; it's not a tank

 

[reedus23]

This is why it is so important to get the police involved in community meetings which would be provided to them through a Block Watch Program. Citizens need to interact with the police department because police are part of your community whether they live there or not. They spend most of their waking hours trying to keep the peace. Imagine the peace an officer would feel knowing that the majority of the community he is trying to protect had his back. Michael had a retired juvenile officer as his mentor so it is hard for many to understand what exactly went wrong. jmo

Wholeheartedly agree with this. I think emotions are still too raw right now, but in time, I have been advocating from day 1 that there needs to be more interaction between the citizenship and LE and not just when cuffs are being put on them.